The Exogal saga continued....

Just send me what in your opinion and experience works best. If Doug approves of it that works for me fine. I guess then I discard the old, original remote. Thank you.

The remainder of our disagreement you will have to negotiate with my attorney. 

At the risk of beating a dead horse, the Exogal people know this criticism and others are here (the CEO in an email told the dealer that I "went off on Audiogon") so why don't they respond? If my company's credibility was questioned in a popular public forum I would respond immediately. This isn't a case of customer dissatisfaction, it is an example of a company not living up to its promises. The CEO knows very well that his remote and unreadable window are product defects and he has said as much on posted videos and quotes cited by reviewers. Without the now defunct applications these are fatal flaws. 

The CEO has stated that Exogal has "a loyal following" and implied that they are satisfied with the present state of affairs. Really? That's not what I'm hearing on my personal messages here.

It is peculiar to offer a trade-in, however generous, when the company has a history of ill-conceived products like the Vortex. So the Comet/Ion is problematic, the Vortex was advertised in detail yet never produced--so do we really need s strike three? If a company can't produce a simple thing like a decent remote control how can one believe they are going to start an entirely new and complex product line? Personally I've had it with Exogal.

I openly challenge the CEO and Sales Manager to respond here, not with a lot of excuses but with the truth. So far the silence is deafening. 
 

I agree entirely. But the CEO and Sales Manager are well known figures in the audio world and Audiogon and revealing all this disgraces them and keeps others from suffering the same fate--many people were erroneously giving them the benefit of the doubt. I venture to guess that they have lost a great deal of credibility in the industry and that will be their undoing. I have been buying audio stuff for many years and this is the first time I have ever been swindled. 

I never expected a full refund, just some sort of refund for the more recently bought Ion which is useless in itself. I have been demanding a remote for the Comet for months. I suspect they don’t have the money to refund anything because they haven’t been selling any products to generate income. 
If it ever got out that they refunded money to me many others would make the same demand and they would be busted. A class action lawsuit would get their attention. 
In addition to the company’s failings listed above, they had a falling out with a major discount dealer active on Audiogon who initially distributed the Comet. In 2018 they were going to buy Core Power Technology but that deal fell through. I believe that CPT now has a close relationship with that discount dealer (who in my opinion is excellent in all respects).

People have been privately suggesting they lost a major financial backer, they are in the process of bankruptcy proceedings, or they are trying to sell out to another company. I urge other dissatisfied customers to come forward—you don’t owe these people any loyalty and they are just sweet talking you to gain time. 

I refer you all to two Audiogon posts by exogal_ceo: one on February 20, 2019 in which we are asked to "be patient a little longer" and the other on November 10, 2020 in which we are informed "you are gonna have to be patient." Today is March 11, 2021 and I have tired of being patient. 

What would you fellows do is you bought a tube amplifier and the manufacturer said, "Gee, sorry, they don't make 12Au7s anymore--be patient while we design a new amp." 

"Swindled" may be too strong a strong word because when the apps were available (in my case for several years) everything was fine. I loved the Comet and bought the Ion for that reason, and tried to buy a Vortex. The basic point is that the Comet/Ion combo is application based as the CEO has himself stated on numerous occasions. On one video he actually tosses the cheap remote away and says it is junk! Without the application it is a pain to use--read their own advertising literature and how they are quoted in the reviews. This is not what we paid some thousands of dollars for and the units were sold on a false premise. They keep saying this new "Pulsar" remote is in the making and that has gone on for months. Then one has to play hide and seek to get answers from them and those answers are unsatisfactory.

This lack of applications is a very serious and fundamental issue. That is why I have made no complaints about the sub-par headphone jack on the rear of the Comet that even its creators consider inadequate. But that is typical of their poor business decisions, one that they remedied on the top Vortex model that was never produced. I very certainly could complain about all the fabulous potential for upgrades they advertised to keep the product from being obsolete; I think we have had reverse progress on that subject.

The veracity of my account is very easy to confirm: there are no more apps and evidently there is no new "Pulsar" remote (that they said they would charge $125 for if one didn't participate in the trial). Read for yourselves the CEO's two attestations that he made on this site a while back. Would you be satisfied with these evasive responses and litany of excuses if you spent all this money? After months? Nobody would like to hear the other side of the story (Exogal's) more than I, which is why I started this post. 

Jeff we are all weeping out of sympathy for you. Some of you seem to have a predilection for this company but from the above response the owner admits his many failures and expects customers to accept them. Personally I couldn’t care less about his trials and tribulations—I simply want a functional product. Amazing that he blames everything on the dealer! Had they answered their phone and email in a timely manner none of this would have occurred. He never intended to do a thing but to avoid me and hope I would go away. Yes, as I have said repeatedly here I loved the product and never anticipated this would come to pass. I hope that you you find all this so acceptable will have the same experience. 

Refutation of Exogal CEO Point by Point--readers look this over carefully and please feel free to tell me if I am wrong. 

1. CEO is annoyed that I criticized him in this public forum. Had he answered my email made the Thursday before last none of this would have happened and all would have been settled amicably. 

1a. I requested and was told I would get the new functioning remote shortly. Over three weeks have passed and no remote. Above Doug Schroeder says he has an operating remote he is in the process of assessing. Is that the "SR 71 Smart Remote" that Exogal describes in detail on its website? Or is this like the Vortex series, something that is currently advertised but never produced? CEO refuses to address the remote issue and when asked to produce one doesn't respond. But he did admit in print that "It didn't work out" which is about as self-incriminating a statement as one can make. 

2. CEO feels entitled to sympathy over a number of business misjudgments. His chronic business mismanagement does not absolve him from contractual obligations to his customers. Do we hear elite companies like Primaluna, Wyred 4 Sound, Benchmark, Rogue, etc. whine that they want our sympathy for problematic products? No, they make great products (and continue to do so even in these challenging times) and stand by them. 

3. CEO "gets it" that I am annoyed about the application loss. But I and others bought the units because we were assured there would be apps to run them and that's why we weren't concerned about the cheap remote and unlit, obscure window. All of the reviewers drew attention to this as did the CEO himself. This is an extremely serious issue that comes close to invalidating the products.

3a. CEO tries to wrangle out of the application loss issue by saying that the majority of buyers didn't download them. I don't believe that but even if true he has a contractual responsibility to furnish the applications. He still advertises the downloads on his website with links that don't work. That's just plain false or misleading advertising. Suppose you ordered and paid for a pizza with anchovies, they made it properly but then picked out all the anchovies prior to serving it--shouldn't you be annoyed? 

4. CEO states my issue is with the dealer, not him. Really? A company makes a problematic product, engages dealers to distribute it, and then passes the blame off to them when the product has glitches? That is an outlandish assertion but it explains why many of the dealers on the current Exogal site no longer distribute the product. The CEO has a habit of passing the blame for his company's many failures along to others--me, the dealer, the competitiveness of the market, etc. 

5. The CEO considers me "uncivil." I have taken pains to maintain civility and discuss this in a rational, fact based manner. I have even said how much I liked Exogal before the app loss. "Steakster" kindly went and found all the positive statements I have made about Exogal in the past. So what does that prove? It proves that they have turned a good customer very much against them through bad business conduct. "Steakster" if you look on the Exogal site you will find a statement by me recommending their Comet/Ion combo so you can add that to your list. 

6. The CEO makes a product that becomes problematic for a very fundamental reason. What does he do? He tells the customer to sell it and he will assist the new buyer. He is simply annoyed that I went after him and this is his petty manifestation of pique. On the website they tour their high level of customer service!

I could go on but all the CEO did in his response was make himself look ridiculous and back himself into a corner. If you try to defend what is beyond defense you collapse. Despite these criticisms I don't that the CEO is an intrinsically bad guy, quite the opposite. He is typical of the very talented hobbyist who tries to make it in a competitive and difficult business environment and can't hack it. As I said above, those of you who defend all this obfuscation need to suffer it. Fortunately I have other and more conventional remedies for this situation. 

One thing we need to get out in the open is that Jeff's allies here are industry insiders who know his background with Wadia and are sympathetic because they know Exogal is headed toward the same fate. Wadia made terrific products but even early on they could barely stay afloat--see Alan Taffel's article in The Absolute Sound, Feb., 2007. In 2011 (really December 2010) they sold out to Fine Sounds Group in Europe, probably partial fallout from the 2008 recession. Jeff and associates split off and eventually founded Exogal. At roughly the same time Wadia was acquired by the McIntosh Group. The tale of Wadia's demise reminds me of Sony Betamax--the excellence of a product doesn't assure market success, sometimes quite the opposite. Search Wadia in the most recent postings in forums here on Audiogon and you will see that purchasers of their products have been left high and dry. 

Clearly that is what's happening with Exogal. I am sure they are shopping for a buyer and I bet it will be someone in Europe. On its site Exogal states they have opened a European distributor. Jeff doesn't mind committing public relations suicide here because he know the clock is ticking down on his enterprise. But the new buyer isn't going to get stuck servicing questionable products so Exogal purchasers are going to be as badly off as the Wadia people. Very understandably Jeff doesn't want to be transparent. Again, I question his competence in business. For somewhere between $1,500--$1,800 and a remote control all of this could have been avoided. But no, he wants us to pity him and appreciate the fact that he didn't use the "f" word. 

One more misrepresentation from him and I will publish right here on this thread all of my ignored emails to Exogal, including one in which I asked for a recommendation on which Vortex to buy. 

You are misrepresenting me as usual Jeff. So where is the remote you were going to send me? What is the different remote you now advertise on your website? You have steadfastly refused to send me a remote. I also asked for a refund on the Ion and never expected a full one. I didn't at all change my mind--you changed your product after the fact. That's your problem, not mine. 

PROOF THAT JEFF IS NOT TELLING THE TRUTH. Email sent by me to Exogal CEO March 3, 2021. He ignored this message which is why this fracas is taking place. If anyone doesn't believe me I will furnish screenshots of ALL my correspondence with Exogal. 

"I have to say this is not a case of mere customer dissatisfaction but rather your not living up to product expectations, namely no applications to run them as advertised. I didn’t get what I paid for because the application was made unavailable for whatever reason.

In the spirit of compromise I am willing to retain the Comet as long as you send the remote that works. (Actually  my Comet is a replacement you sent for one that blew up.) I will figure out some way to use it. But the Ion is useless and has to go. So I ask that you refund whatever is reasonable for the Ion. It is senseless for me to keep it in a box for such a time that other products may or may not be made available to replace it. This is a simple solution that avoids a big battle. Perry actually recommended keeping the Comet to trade in as there is a vague chance someone might buy it. R-- "

Let's see you get out of this Jeff!

http://www.exogal.com/images/Downloads/EXOGAL_SR71_User_Guide_04-14.pdf

Speaking of the remote, what is this? The Pulsar? It isn't what I have. Is this the new one that he refuses to send? It's on their website. 

Agisthos, how is your elementary reading comprehension? You get screwed by some lying manufacturer and we will see how you like it. 

To all those who criticize ME please start this Exogal video at roughly 9:10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHvdme6wCAg&t=693s

You will see your Jeff in a Youtube Dagogo interview with Doug Schroeder discussing "user convenience" and saying the Comet window design was "intentionally crappy" and that "people got used to the notion" of using applications on phones and such devices to run the Comet. Yet in his bogus response to me above he said most people didn't download the app! What's the truth? This video can be found on the Exogal website in the news section. I don't see how people can defend Jeff given this mass of evidence that squarely places him on the wrong side. I'm not some obsessive nut--I just stand up for what is right. 

steveashe, I used to run the 800 at a high level and learned that when a guy gives you the elbow at the break line you zap him otherwise everyone will do it. I want to expose Exogal for what it is so that the customers they are avoiding will see the truth. Also, others in the future will take warning and avoid the product and not get screwed. Finally, my attorney says I have a great case but for her to do all the research and present it would cost a fortune in legal fees. So this spat here has afforded me the opportunity to amass a huge amount of documented data against them that I can turn over to her. 

What would you do if you had spent thousands on an improperly advertised product from a company that was most likely about to fail? This isn't a $500 Sony. 

Guys, we are done here. Thanks for your comments both pro and con and also your patience. I know I sound obsessed but I don’t like getting pushed around and there was a lot of material to refute Mr. Jeff’s statements that some of you never considered. What you call anger I call righteous indignation. Anyhow best regards to you all and happy listening. 

Thanks—I am really glad I dumped those components. So much for Exogal and their defenders. They got what they deserved.

 

It’s one year later and still no new Exogal anything. What happened to those new improved components that we were going to be able to trade our Comets and Ions in for? As I predicted one year ago, Exogal occupies a plot in the great electronic graveyard.

Well it all worked out for the better. I sold off the outmoded and obsolete Exogal at a loss but replaced it with a Purifi based amp and an RME DAC. The sound is hugely improved for one third the price. Hugely. And I have the supreme luxury of being able to read the display. I doubt we will see any other Exogal products.

All you Exogal fans ought to run out and order their new T-Shirt, a review of which is forthcoming on Dagogo. So much for new products.

The new Topping DAC kills the Comet at a third the price and you get a quality headphone amp included. Couple that with any of a number of Purifi Class D amps and you will be shocked at the quality of sound. Exogal fans enjoy paying top dollar for DACs without readable screens and volume knobs but given those parameters ought to invest in a Schiit Modius—$200. Exogal was nice stuff in 2016 but the market has come a long way and I am curious to see how they plan to compete. People are too smart now to pay 7k for a pretty aluminum box. This is just a Wadia rerun.

Schroeder, I strongly question the professional ethics of your steadfast attempts to defend Exogal. You would do very well to study the scientific and objective reviews on Audio Science Review in an effort to remedy your subjectivity. You can start by reading their reviews of Topping products. 
I challenge Exogal to send a Comet over there for review and let’s all see how it compares with a number of Toppings that cost well under 1k. The Comet, which is basically featureless, would best be compared with the $200 Schiit  Modius which is on ASR’s recommended list. So let’s do it whenever you are ready.

I certainly wouldn't compare my extremely limited knowledge to yours in anything that pertains to audio. It appears from your statements that you see room for subjectivity when it comes to measurements, and plenty of people do. I can tell you categorically that after living with the Exogal/Comet duo for an extended period of time I feel that the Purifi/RME (and/or Topping) combo kills them in performance at a fraction of the price as well has having many useful features like a readable screen. Topping isn't the greatest DAC but for south of $1,000 it is awfully good. That is my personal experience based on listening to this combo. I am a consumer like most other people here and don't have the luxury of someone in your princely position of switching dozens of components around and I have to make an informed decision of what I buy.  

But what surprises--and disappoints-- me about you is the way you continue to prop up a dead horse--namely Exogal. On various videos you praised the late lamented apps and noted that was the crux of the system. You might consider it useful to think of the consumer who does not have the advantages of being a reviewer and actually pays hard earned money for stuff. I believe that Exogal is one of the many audio outfits that releases products that aren't fully thought out and then find themselves in a bad position. That is an industry phenomenon with which you are doubtless quite familiar. I also think to review a pretty cruddy remote that is a rotten substitute for apps made by a company that probably didn't sell more that 1,000 units is odd. I bet the people who paid 7k for those nice aluminum cases didn't envision having one of those! Anyhow, my beef isn't with you and I actually enjoy your reviews so excuse me if I was rude. But my antipathy for Exogal will not abate. This Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC Supreme looks very interesting and I'll check it out. 

Modesty is apparently not one of your personality attributes.

In any case, I'll do better than fishing up your videos and go straight to the written word. In your Dagogo review if the Comet (October 2015) you start your self stated "accolades" by noting that the Comet is "well-planned and executed." You continue to state that the front display is "nearly non existent" and describe how it is basically unreadable. Then you say that isn't a "mistake but intentional [that word italicized for emphasis!] as Exogal does not wish for the owner to actually use the display." Then you continue to describe at length the apps by which the Comet was intended to be controlled. Your review even quotes Jeff saying  "the emphasis on device apps won't go away. That approach simply allows us too many features and control options." Well, it certainly has gone away.

So very plainly according to both you and old Jeff the Comet was designed to be used with apps that are now no longer available. Yet when I complained about this total failure on this thread you chimed in and defended Exogal. Then you  later wrote a review of this crappy remote that is not what purchasers wanted, in fact not even what the "Fabulous Four" Exogal owner/founders initially wanted. That's how we came to this impasse--I criticized Exogal as an irresponsible failure and you defended them despite your past statements in print and otherwise. So yes, you are propping up a dead horse.

In your original review, consistent with your methodology, you included no graphs and technical measurements such as what one routinely finds on Audio Science Review. You did have a lot of subjective impressions such as saying the component if "as cute as a button." Is that sort of expression a substitute for technical testing and data? I think not. Subjective rhapsodizing isn't a substitute for science. 

So I have to wonder how and why a reviewer defends (as per your past contributions to this thread) a totally flawed and ill-conceived component that no longer functions in the manner you so approvingly described in your review. Your communications here are redolent of an attitude of superiority--"Trust me I know better because I am a big whiz with lots of knowledge and experience." Sorry, I'm not jumping on that bandwagon. 

Incidentally, I checked out your Eastern Electric thing and plenty of very knowledgeable people think it is less than ideal. 

Of course you are finished—you are throughly refuted. I hope that readers here will start reading Audio Science Review and draw their own conclusions. Companies like Nord, Topping, VTV, RME, Gustard, etc. make wonderful sounding components that are a fraction of the cost of some boutique things like Exogal. There is even a little Australian company that offers great components in beautifully crafted aluminum cases. Your choice is a 7k system that is highly problematic versus a 2.5k system that sounds considerably better. Moreover the reviews of these products are based on science and electrical engineering, not fanciful subjective hooey. Exogal will never be able to compete with new products because of their pricing, and on top of that they have promised a “generous” trade in for the Comet/Ion fiasco. Anyhow, do check out ASR—I would never buy anything that didn’t qualify for their recommended list.

It would be highly amusing if the company would resurrect the applications necessary to operate the units after they went under.