The best way to start adding A=analog to my system

@audioguy85 scrollng back through. not sure how I missed your post before. I hadn’t seen the Tavish Design Classic, so I am going to check that out in addition to:

• Pro-ject tube box DS2; and
• Hagerman

On the Pro-ject, it seems like changing tubes will be annoying, and for no good reason. Hagerman seems ridiculously straightforward in every way. Plus buying direct feels less wasteful.

Thanks!

@saulh yes, it does seem to be a pain in the butt to change out the tubes on the DS2, as there is not much of the tube sticking out. However, it does sound rather good as is. The Tavish is very easy to change out the tubes. According to Scott at Tavish, the center tube position will respond the most to any changes. I placed a vintage NOS RCA 7025 gray plate there. In the first position is a GE 12au7 bought from Kevin @ upscale. It is said to be the quietest 12au7 available. In the third position is a vintage NOS 5751 Sylvania with disc getter. The sound is outstanding. I do use a SUT with it, so I’m utilizing the MM section. I use the Jensen Mc- 2rr L. Tavish actually uses the Jensen transformers inside the more expensive Adagio phono preamp. The Jensen Mc 2rr L was designed with the Denon 103 in mind. The Denon has similar specs as the Hana EL that I’m using, so the Jensen works well. I have not heard of the Hagerman, but I’m sure it is good as well. Back to the DS2, it received many positive reviews and can't be beat for convenience, as far as setup and making changes to the settings. It's all right on the front panel, so no dipswitches, load impedance is achieved with the turn of a dial. Plus you can run two turntables if you want. The one I have has the eucalyptus wood side panels  and the the black faceplate, looks great!

You gotta grow into vinyl. Getting a big enough library can be very expensive these days and so I find myself listening to digital for long periods, then short bursts of vinyl for a few days/weeks, then digital, etc. 

So I suggest not investing the farm initially.  Get "decent"   - I have an Ortofon 2M Black cart and it's got a nice sound. Avid Pulsus phono preamp.

As I have gone through this process, here is what I think I am learning so far about setting up an analog system. I know it's like a chain, where all of the links have to work together, but I don't think all of the elements have equal priority. In terms of building my turntable/analog "chain," I would put the links in the following order: 1-phono stage because you can have it for a long time and it dictates the signal that gets sent to the pre, so I think get the best you can afford; 2a: turntable: I am still not convinced that the actual turntable makes as much difference as people think, especially when you get to a certain level. It seems that the object of a turntable is to be passive and transparent--to not corrupt the signal, so those differences get small quick, but otoh, turntables can last forever, so whatever difference they do make is potentially permanent and that makes them more important to get right; 3: cartridge -- I go two ways on this, because cartridges are the origin point of the signal coming off of the vinyl and they determine what you have to work with, but they are by definition temporary, so they are tough to build around, and their performance can differ substantially depending on the type of record or music; 4--tonearm/internal wiring. similar to the turntable, the tonearm is an ancillary component that in terms of sound quality works best when you don't experience anything from it at all; 5--interconnects. the difference between wirings seems overblown; 5--stabilization platforms. I could see this making a difference, but can't put it ahead of the other things on this list; 6--power conditioners. this seems to have the most snake oil potential. But what do I know? tell me what I got right, if anything and where I am missing something. I know you all will and that's why I love you folks...

OP,

That is pretty good, I think you are taking away the right stuff. . But the table and arm are really important. I just had my Linn LP12 sub chassis replaced… it was a fabricated metal plate that was replaced with a solid piece of metal with different diameter holes drilled in it (the Keel) to dampen vibrations… had a surprising large effect.

So, it all matters. I fiddled with sub $2K turntables for a couple decades. They sounded ok. Then I got my first audiophile table the VPI Aries… and a ridiculously expensive cartridge.. the Van den Hull Frog ($2.5K?). I just dropped my jaw… the table just completely got rid of surface noise.. it just disappeared.. pops and clicks disappeared into the background. The cartridge just picked up levels of detail I could not imagine was possible.

Today, I own a Linn LP12 with a Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge (~5K). I put a Silent Running Audio Isolation platform under it ~(3K). I also upgraded my tone arm to Line’s top of the line toe arm (~5K)… wow… greater solidity and detail.

But you are definitely correct… without a fantastic phono stage, you are not going to hear it. Without my Audio Research Reference 3 Phonostage… I would not hear all the incredible improvements in my TT.

4--tonearm/internal wiring. similar to the turntable, the tonearm is an ancillary component that in terms of sound quality works best when you don't experience anything from it at all;

The Tonearm has two functions,  which is both as a mechanical device and supply a means to transfer an electrical signal generated from the Cartridges Operation. The Main Purpose of the Tonearm apart from be a device to mount a Cartridge on to, is for the Tonearm to function in a manner that enables the Cartridges mechanical operation to function without impediments that will impact on the critical movements. There are numerous designs for the Tonearm and all will to some extent be an impediment to the Cartridges mechanical function.

How the Tonearm has a design to manage transferral of energies are quite varied as well, but in general all Brands, Models and Designs are not equal.

The other purpose of the Tonearm where it is supplying a means to transfer the electrical signal generated within the Cartridge, also has quite an important consideration, as an incorrect wire choice and configuration for the wire within the Tonearm can impede the mechanical function of the Tonearm and present a resistive force to the required freedom of movement. The quality of the cable and cable connections for being able to transfer a unadulterated signal is a more difficult subject to broach on and this will be adopted mainly and accepted as the chosen method that is supplied by the Manufacturer.  There are some who change the supplied method and produce their own bespoke methods.

5--interconnects. the difference between wirings seems overblown; 

My experience has shown that there are benefits to be had by having tried out a selection of Signal Wire Types and Cable Designs in a system.

The choice for connectors used on the Cable and the Chassis is also a worthwhile consideration.

If the connections are causing a loss of the complete signal being transferred, the signal loss will arrive as a sound at some stage, and it can be detected as a smearing to the details.  The more information that can be delivered on time, the more the detail of the envelope of a note and vocal is present and detectable.

I'm sure the description offered will be challenged for the suggestion the  impact of the connections on a Cable, but when the changes in detail retrieval are detected, and the method used are seen to be responsible for the impact being made, there are not too many descriptions left to explain what is being perceived.

@saulh I think your analog chain is good.  I will caution the cable from the TT to phono stage should be short, 60 cm if you can, and low capacitance from signal to shield (try for 50 pf/metre).  You may need to make the cable. The output impedance of cartridges is very high resulting in cable capacitance being important.

@clearthinker, I know where you are coming from. The problem with new music is that there is SO MUCH GARBAGE mixed in it is hard to find the talent. It use to be hard to get a recording contract. You had to be at least 1/2 decent. Now any one with a computer can make noise and get it published. You have to wade through it to get to the good stuff. My point is the good stuff is there and missing out on it is IMHO not a good approach. Groups and people that do concert videos are most usually talented. I watch a lot of these. I got into Arctic Monkey's and Modest Mouse via a concert videos. Jazz is much easier than popular music. You Tube videos and NPR's Tiny Desk concerts are another way to spot modern talent. 

I use to buy records because I liked the cover and I got introduced to some great bands that way but not any more. My kids recommend a lot of music and their taste was programmed by me so that is certainly another reliable source.