Well, I have heard a good speaker finally. One that does not have a boxy sound, that has a sharp leading edge, that has the pace of music, that images realistically, that has all frequencies arriving at the same time, and one where the speakers themselves vanish. The only problem is that the LSA Model 10 driven by the LSA/Exemplar components cost $80k.
The best speaker you ever heard?
In my opinion, the speaker is by far the most important part of the audio system. After all, it is the only part you hear. OK, the other stuff really matters a lot, but without a great speaker... No go.
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
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Like my grandaddy used to say......."It's a good thing we all don't like the same thing,........ cause everybody'd be after your grandma... hum.......best speaker I ever heard ... has to be Dale Carnagie seriously I've listened to the expensive ones, but I still like my ACI Sapphire II's with the Focal kevlar drivers mated with their Titan Sub |
Gregm, "The Synergies spec 95dB "in 3000 c.ft room". Hence ~90 (?) single spkr anechoic. The Amphi etc specs 86 single anechoic so, say ~90-91dB accordingly. That's ~1/2 the sensitivity this far." I'm not sure how you made these calculations but seems like a lot of hand waving, not that my comparison wasn't either :-) |
Hi Gregm, Caveats apply to the specs since they're general without specifics. The Scintilla was measured close to flat down to 20 Hz (ie, real 20 Hz) if you read the originanl reviews back in the 80's, so I don't think the Synergy is any worse, maybe better. Also the bass "ribbon" in the Synergy has 1/3 less mass than the original Apogee ribbon. There's an option of getting a bass ribbon even lighter than that used in the company's most expensive Definitive (~$90k). The MRTW ribbon is "foil", without the plastic backing in the orginal Scintilla (me thinks), so much lighter also. I don't know the technology behind the Analysis ribbons. But the guy who designed the Synergy has been THE Apogee repair guy since the company folded, and he has been steadily upgrading the ribbons with new materials and tighter tolerance with CNC cutting of the ribbons (original Apogee ribbons were hand cut). Yes, 2.5 ohms is low, but because it's very flat much easier on amps. My understanding is that Synergy has been driven with relatively low wattage tube amps without problems, impossible feet for the Scintilla. The Ananlysis has nominal impedence of 4 ohms, but no specifics on the minimum. I have seen the Amphityron up close at shows. Although the build quality looks good, probably better than the equivalent Apogge, I don't think it comes close to the Synergy. Personally I don't like the looks of the big Analysis. The Synergy looks more elegant and cleaner to me. Getting 110+ dB from a pure planar speaker would be an awesome experience. Next year I will embark on a journey auditioning these speakers among others to build an ultimate system. Proof is in the listening. |
Gregm This snip from a thread is from the very first "Synergy" owner...they don't sound like to tuff an amp load. "The Synergy efficiency is at least 95 db/W, I actally think it could be more like 96 to 97. Impedance is around 2.5 ohms and very linear. I was using single 70WPC Rowen monos at home, and even with constant 100db peaks for 20 mins they only got warm" Anyone own, or heard the "Amphitryon" that can comment on their efficiency? Dave |
This Apogee "Synergy" eulogy vs Analysis "Amphitryon" just caught my attention. It's intersting to compare published specs referred to above by Dracule The Synergies spec 95dB "in 3000 c.ft room". Hence ~90 (?) single spkr anechoic. The Amphi etc specs 86 single anechoic so, say ~90-91dB accordingly. That's ~1/2 the sensitivity this far. OTOH, Synergy rates impedance at 2.5ohm, rather tricky (but much better than the Scintilla); "you only need 30 watts/channel" yeah, and how many volts, and a hyper stabilised circuit:). Amphi specs 4ohm which is even more benign for the average amp -- so, on the face of it much easier to drive. Dracule tells us the Synergy hits 110dB spl (in room, both spkrs driven, I assume?). Similarly, the Amphi would require ~100W from a normal amp to reach 110dB spl (in room both spkrs... etc). Synergy FR specs 20-25kHz (stereo?, in room, remember). Likewise the Amphi, but single anechoic. Both specs are elusive at best... i.e. how many dB down or up (unlikely) at 20? But at face value, the Amphi seems to spec better in room, both spkrs driven. Basically, I've heard neither of the two (or if I have I don;t remember it). Just putting some thoughts on screen. |
Before you go head over heals over the Analysis Amphitryon (actually me thinks they're closer to $24k), listen to the new Apogee Synergy 1.5 (looks like the Scintilla, but very different in execution) when they come to these shores. Very expensive at $24k but priced similar to Amphitryon. The build quality seems to be on another level to the Analysis. The Synergys are actually smaller than the Amphitryon which are similar in size to the Diva, but weighs close to twice as much (close to 300 lbs each) due to extensive use of metal and much more powerful neodynium magnets. Alot more sensitive too at 95 dB than 86 dB for the Ananlysis. Some actually prefered the Scintilla over the larger Diva from what I recall. From what I read, the Synergy will play loud at 110+ dB and you only need 30 watts due to its high sensitivity. Original Apogee owners would kill for this. |
Kkennymacc " Can't afford the Analysis, although I'm finding myself suddenly searching for a good pair of Apogee Divas " HeHe....I saw your wanted ad. You may want to drop a note on the Apogee speaker forum. We have members all over the world to help in your search...they also sometimes sell, as they move from one model to another. There is (or will be soon?) a pair of Studio Grands, Scintilla, and Diva for sale in the United States if I recall correctly...all in top condition from what I recall reading. Here is a link to our forum: http://audioworld.com/cgi-bin/sw/forumdisplay.cgi?action=topics&forum=Apogee+Acoustics+Users+Group&number=1&DaysPrune= Dave |
I just recently heard a pair of Apogee knock-offs from a Greek company called Analysis. The particular Analysis speaker I heard was called the Amphitryon, the largest in the line, and the most expensive at $20,000 pr. Jeff Wells, of Audible Arts, in San Jose, Ca. would be happy to share details on associated equipment. I currently own an amazing pair of Montana XP speakers that I felt I would probably keep for a long, long, time to come. The Analysis speakers absolutely "BLEW ME AWAY." They're sound was......."BREATHTAKING." Can't afford the Analysis, although I'm finding myself suddenly searching for a good pair of Apogee Divas. |
About 1990 I heard a pair of Inifinity towers(maybe 5 feet tall) that cost about $8,000 each. This was $8,000 in 1990 ..... Each speaker was being driven off it's own tube amp (monoblock) which I think was a Carver (not enirely sure about the brand). WHile my recolection back that far isn't so hot .... I can not say I'v eheard anything that stunned me so much. |
Sorry loveman that you do not appear to have the balls to respond directly back to me after you have read some/all of my threads on what are after all are only my humble thoughts on how hi-fi equipment should sound if it is worth its salt, or meat,potatoes and gravy If it was expensive gear. Perhaps, as you have gone on to a third party, you are seeking a little bit of solace from another 'gonner', or maybe a shoulder to cry on? as it were. There will always be low fi cheap superstore systems, If there is to be a death it will be the top end fi first, just like a house market slump or the car industry the top end always loses more money than the bottom and therefore suffers more because 'Audiogoners' strange as it may seem are seriously in the minority(less than 1% of total sales I would imagine) when it comes to sales of anything that plays music. Getting back to the beginning, another outlet for blame for a system that does not make any lp's/cd's sound good is the totally useless 'shaver' sockets that adorn walls here in the US. And of course not forgetting the puny 110v electricity power supply that doesn't have enough juice to knock the kneecap of a nat.lol keep listening............. |
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Sorry to digress on this thread, but I just have to ask Howard (since you won't reply to my emails) if he was the Howard Parr on the music credits from the move Mysterious Skin? I know you are a musician and I was just wondering. I realize Evita (Howard's wife) hates me, (woman hold grudges so much longer than guys) but maybe she will let you answer on the 'gon? thanks in advance, warren :) |
Wilson sure spends oodles on advertising. Good for them. Personally, I find their ads to be very dull/ ho hum. I'd shop around for a different firm/different approach. I have not heard the Wilson 8s, but if they are anything like their others? Just not wild about their sound. I know of a Wilson Alexandria owner, and a Maxx owner, as well, who (way lower in price) who made the switch and was very happy. Just a little fwiw. |
I have spoken to several people who have considered the Puppys to be far overpriced for what they do. FWIW.You can always find people to confirm any opinion, and they'll virtually line up to disparage a successful product or company. I suspect you'll find many 938 owners comparing their speakers to the WPs, but few (if any) WP owners replacing them with 938s because of the same claim. Other than the obvious aesthetic mimicry, the 938 does not compare the WP, at least not to the WP7 or WP8. Not even in the same ballpark, IMO. Back to the previously scheduled program... |
For all you guys crying "Watt/Puppy!", I have to ask if you've heard the Hyperion 938s? I have them and I doubt that they're the best speakers in the world but they are pretty damn good. Are the reviewers who've said they're better (or as good as) the Puppys at 1/5th the cost all wet? I have spoken to several people who have considered the Puppys to be far overpriced for what they do. FWIW. |
Hi again Rockadanny, I totally agree with your last sentence. But us hi-fi purists' all want 'clarity and musicality' from our chosen genres, thats why we spend so much money on trying to get it to enable us to reach our hi-fi 'nirvana'. All cd/lp's when played should have 'clarity and musicality' when the system is balanced, otherwise we have wasted our hard earned dollars and have to spend more time pacifying our other halfs when we need to buy the next piece of super duper/must have/can't live without it/ piece of equipment (usually expensive and a bit tricky hiding speakers that are 6' tall) lol. I still maintain IMHO that there is no such thing as a duff recording, only a bad system that can't make clarity and musicality out of the said recording. The simplest (and cheapest) solution to all our angst is to buy a cheap portable $100+ from Walmutt. keep it live. |
Gawdbless - Huh? My point is that well recorded/engineered material is so much MORE enjoyable as my system improved, that the poor recorded/engineered material became less so because thanks to my quality system I know (or can imagine) how much more enjoyable a bad recording could have been were it properly recorded. The difference in recording quality becomes more obvious to me with a better quality system. I treasure clarity and musicality. And these attributes have improved with my system improvements. So much so, that I have higher expectations now with recorded material. And when I run across an inferior recording it pleases me less than when my system was less improved. |
Hey Rockadanny, I would suggest sire that you substitute the word 'better' for the word 'worse' if your cd's/lps are not sounding as they should. I still stick by what I say that 'there is no such thing as a bad recording', obviously there are mediocre/lesser engineered recordings, of which I have a wonderful cd of Albert Ammons/Pete Johnson duets circa 1940?, comparing it to The utterly brilliant 'Wall' by Pink Floyd 1980? would be foolhardy. Both are extremely listenable, and no way would I say the 'boogie boys' cd was bad. All a hi-fi system has to do is give your ears a treat, EVERYTIME you turn it on and be musical with ANY CD/LP your heart desires. There is no such thing either as a 'perfect' system coz no matter how hard you try you are never gonna compete with the Boston Symphony Orchestra or AC/DC in your living room!!!. Everything hi-fi system is a compromise, some are more of a compromise than others. Ps-being more expensive (or outrageous) doesn't equal quality either. Happy listening................ |
IMHO, the Sonus Faber Guarneri Hommage in my system with the Rowland 8( choke power supply) and the CAT signature is the best sound I have heard from a speaker. While some larger models like the Maxx 2 and Vandy 5A will go lower in the bass, their intimacy on vocals, small ensemble and acoustic instruments is not even close. ( at least in the pairs I have heard) again IMHO. |
Several people mentioned Alan Hill's Plasmatronic speakers. I had the privilege of hearing them in Alan's home in Albuquerque. The treble is indeed excellent, but the paper cone bass drivers were only adequate. Even the new Martin Logan Vantage has a better integrated bass, and Revel has an excellent response match across the spectrum. Of course, none of those speakers existed thirty years ago when Alan first made his Plasmatronics! Those were the best of their era, and if Alan ever turns his attention to making a full-range Plasmatronic (which he assures me he could do), it might be the best speaker ever. The only reason for saying "might" is price and electrode life in air. He would need quite a development budget to get rid of the helium tanks! |
I am a newbie on this site and I have read some interesting threads on 'whats best', my 2cent thread is; A good loudspeaker has simply to make the music sound like real people playing, as if they were playing in front of you. If your system has a particular 'good' listening level, then your system is flawed, a good system should sound the same (quality wise, not loudness) at whatever level the volume is set and not improve as the decibels get louder. There is no such thing as a bad recording. There are systems that can't make musical sense out of the music, beit a cd or LP. |
My favorite so far is a pair of Tannoy's Dual Concentric speakers, a DIY project. This comprises some hefty 15" DC unit, a Tannoy supertweeter and some extensive outboard filters in a huge cabinet. Sound is absoluty amazing, closest thing to a live concert I ever encounterd. One major drawback: they aren't mine..... |
I have heard many that in some way made a lasting impression to this day. To me these were all good and in some ways "the best".I'll give examples: -Quad ESL 57/63 -Acoustat 2+2 -Linn Isobarik -Apogee Diva -Magnapan various models -Sonusfaber Extrema -Vandersteen 3A, 5A -Proac Response various models -Wilson Watt/Puppy 3 -Martin Logan Sequel 2 -Martin Logan Aerius I And last, but not the least, and probably the most fun events ever (granted not the last word in refinement and resolution) were to hear a friend's Cerwin.-Vega DC1515's playing from his varanda onto an open field at a distance of 20m with the sum total of 1600w of Rms power from four mono amps driving them. Totally mind blowing if you can appreciate the sensation of a live rock concert in your backyard! |
The best I have ever heard period are the MBL 111e's, have not heard the 101e's ,however, I am sure they are better. The 111e's I heard were in a awesome room, with big dollar every thing. The best "real world speakers" are ATC's Anniversary 50's. I formed these recent opinions over the last two weeks in which I dragged every piece of equipment and cable to listen to over 10 high end speakers. My OPINIONS of all ten speakers are on MY SYSTEM page, if any one cares. |
Speakers are the most important. But then which amp will you use with incredible/awesome/"knock-out"/fantastic/UNREAL speakers? Why hook up an amp that compromises these unreal speakers? duh? Next lets say you get the most awesome/incredible speakera nd also a incredible/unreal/dynomite amp, why compromise witha soso/average/bland sounding cdp? duh? Point is, all 3 are 'equally" important BUT first start with speakers, then work from there. Speakers first, then amp, then cdp. In that order. Now as to the question, most awesome sysyrem you heard. I know I answered with my system as the clear winner. BUT that has now since changed. I haerd a speaker system that uped mine by some added bass. It was the Tyler LSS(Linbrook Sig Sys). However I used my JOR and Cayin 17 as associated. So the only cahnge in my above answer was the spaeker upgrade A speaker i hope to own one day next yr. Paul Baton Rouge |
