In my opinion, the speaker is by far the most important part of the audio system. After all, it is the only part you hear. OK, the other stuff really matters a lot, but without a great speaker... No go.
I am a bit 'speaker-obsessed' I guess, and now I am wondering: What are the best speakers you have ever heard, and what made them the best?
This Apogee "Synergy" eulogy vs Analysis "Amphitryon" just caught my attention. It's intersting to compare published specs referred to above by Dracule
The Synergies spec 95dB "in 3000 c.ft room". Hence ~90 (?) single spkr anechoic. The Amphi etc specs 86 single anechoic so, say ~90-91dB accordingly. That's ~1/2 the sensitivity this far.
OTOH, Synergy rates impedance at 2.5ohm, rather tricky (but much better than the Scintilla); "you only need 30 watts/channel" yeah, and how many volts, and a hyper stabilised circuit:).
Amphi specs 4ohm which is even more benign for the average amp -- so, on the face of it much easier to drive.
Dracule tells us the Synergy hits 110dB spl (in room, both spkrs driven, I assume?). Similarly, the Amphi would require ~100W from a normal amp to reach 110dB spl (in room both spkrs... etc).
Synergy FR specs 20-25kHz (stereo?, in room, remember). Likewise the Amphi, but single anechoic. Both specs are elusive at best... i.e. how many dB down or up (unlikely) at 20? But at face value, the Amphi seems to spec better in room, both spkrs driven.
Basically, I've heard neither of the two (or if I have I don;t remember it). Just putting some thoughts on screen.
Before you go head over heals over the Analysis Amphitryon (actually me thinks they're closer to $24k), listen to the new Apogee Synergy 1.5 (looks like the Scintilla, but very different in execution) when they come to these shores. Very expensive at $24k but priced similar to Amphitryon. The build quality seems to be on another level to the Analysis. The Synergys are actually smaller than the Amphitryon which are similar in size to the Diva, but weighs close to twice as much (close to 300 lbs each) due to extensive use of metal and much more powerful neodynium magnets. Alot more sensitive too at 95 dB than 86 dB for the Ananlysis. Some actually prefered the Scintilla over the larger Diva from what I recall. From what I read, the Synergy will play loud at 110+ dB and you only need 30 watts due to its high sensitivity. Original Apogee owners would kill for this.
" Can't afford the Analysis, although I'm finding myself suddenly searching for a good pair of Apogee Divas "
HeHe....I saw your wanted ad. You may want to drop a note on the Apogee speaker forum. We have members all over the world to help in your search...they also sometimes sell, as they move from one model to another.
There is (or will be soon?) a pair of Studio Grands, Scintilla, and Diva for sale in the United States if I recall correctly...all in top condition from what I recall reading.
I just recently heard a pair of Apogee knock-offs from a Greek company called Analysis. The particular Analysis speaker I heard was called the Amphitryon, the largest in the line, and the most expensive at $20,000 pr. Jeff Wells, of Audible Arts, in San Jose, Ca. would be happy to share details on associated equipment. I currently own an amazing pair of Montana XP speakers that I felt I would probably keep for a long, long, time to come. The Analysis speakers absolutely "BLEW ME AWAY." They're sound was......."BREATHTAKING." Can't afford the Analysis, although I'm finding myself suddenly searching for a good pair of Apogee Divas.
My PMC IB2 monitors are the best speakers I've heard, within the range I can afford. That means until the Watt Puppys price. They are stunning in an understated way. Transparent and powerful.
Sorry loveman that you do not appear to have the balls to respond directly back to me after you have read some/all of my threads on what are after all are only my humble thoughts on how hi-fi equipment should sound if it is worth its salt, or meat,potatoes and gravy If it was expensive gear. Perhaps, as you have gone on to a third party, you are seeking a little bit of solace from another 'gonner', or maybe a shoulder to cry on? as it were. There will always be low fi cheap superstore systems, If there is to be a death it will be the top end fi first, just like a house market slump or the car industry the top end always loses more money than the bottom and therefore suffers more because 'Audiogoners' strange as it may seem are seriously in the minority(less than 1% of total sales I would imagine) when it comes to sales of anything that plays music. Getting back to the beginning, another outlet for blame for a system that does not make any lp's/cd's sound good is the totally useless 'shaver' sockets that adorn walls here in the US. And of course not forgetting the puny 110v electricity power supply that doesn't have enough juice to knock the kneecap of a nat.lol keep listening.............
Rockadanny, I suspect you've figured it out by now, but after reading the posts by Gawdbless, you know why low-fi and mid-fi exist. Geez, I wonder what drew him to this site? I suspect he could find nirvana on E-bay in the boom box section.
Sorry to digress on this thread, but I just have to ask Howard (since you won't reply to my emails) if he was the Howard Parr on the music credits from the move Mysterious Skin? I know you are a musician and I was just wondering. I realize Evita (Howard's wife) hates me, (woman hold grudges so much longer than guys) but maybe she will let you answer on the 'gon? thanks in advance, warren :)
Wilson sure spends oodles on advertising. Good for them. Personally, I find their ads to be very dull/ ho hum. I'd shop around for a different firm/different approach. I have not heard the Wilson 8s, but if they are anything like their others? Just not wild about their sound. I know of a Wilson Alexandria owner, and a Maxx owner, as well, who (way lower in price) who made the switch and was very happy. Just a little fwiw.
I have spoken to several people who have considered the Puppys to be far overpriced for what they do. FWIW.
You can always find people to confirm any opinion, and they'll virtually line up to disparage a successful product or company. I suspect you'll find many 938 owners comparing their speakers to the WPs, but few (if any) WP owners replacing them with 938s because of the same claim. Other than the obvious aesthetic mimicry, the 938 does not compare the WP, at least not to the WP7 or WP8. Not even in the same ballpark, IMO.
For all you guys crying "Watt/Puppy!", I have to ask if you've heard the Hyperion 938s? I have them and I doubt that they're the best speakers in the world but they are pretty damn good. Are the reviewers who've said they're better (or as good as) the Puppys at 1/5th the cost all wet?
I have spoken to several people who have considered the Puppys to be far overpriced for what they do. FWIW.
Hi again Rockadanny, I totally agree with your last sentence. But us hi-fi purists' all want 'clarity and musicality' from our chosen genres, thats why we spend so much money on trying to get it to enable us to reach our hi-fi 'nirvana'. All cd/lp's when played should have 'clarity and musicality' when the system is balanced, otherwise we have wasted our hard earned dollars and have to spend more time pacifying our other halfs when we need to buy the next piece of super duper/must have/can't live without it/ piece of equipment (usually expensive and a bit tricky hiding speakers that are 6' tall) lol. I still maintain IMHO that there is no such thing as a duff recording, only a bad system that can't make clarity and musicality out of the said recording. The simplest (and cheapest) solution to all our angst is to buy a cheap portable $100+ from Walmutt. keep it live.
Vandersteen 5A's. Actually, the whole Vandersteen line gives you much more for your money than others, but the 5A's set up properly are real killers. Read the literature and you'll know why, but listen to them and you will understand
Gawdbless - Huh? My point is that well recorded/engineered material is so much MORE enjoyable as my system improved, that the poor recorded/engineered material became less so because thanks to my quality system I know (or can imagine) how much more enjoyable a bad recording could have been were it properly recorded. The difference in recording quality becomes more obvious to me with a better quality system. I treasure clarity and musicality. And these attributes have improved with my system improvements. So much so, that I have higher expectations now with recorded material. And when I run across an inferior recording it pleases me less than when my system was less improved.
Wilson Audio Watt/Puppy. Doesn't matter which version. In a word "AWESOME" !!!!
The speaker that surprised me the most was Totem Model 1 and model 1 Signatures. I was convinced they were bigger than they actually appear. Very dynamic too!!!
Hey Rockadanny, I would suggest sire that you substitute the word 'better' for the word 'worse' if your cd's/lps are not sounding as they should. I still stick by what I say that 'there is no such thing as a bad recording', obviously there are mediocre/lesser engineered recordings, of which I have a wonderful cd of Albert Ammons/Pete Johnson duets circa 1940?, comparing it to The utterly brilliant 'Wall' by Pink Floyd 1980? would be foolhardy. Both are extremely listenable, and no way would I say the 'boogie boys' cd was bad. All a hi-fi system has to do is give your ears a treat, EVERYTIME you turn it on and be musical with ANY CD/LP your heart desires. There is no such thing either as a 'perfect' system coz no matter how hard you try you are never gonna compete with the Boston Symphony Orchestra or AC/DC in your living room!!!. Everything hi-fi system is a compromise, some are more of a compromise than others. Ps-being more expensive (or outrageous) doesn't equal quality either. Happy listening................
IMHO, the Sonus Faber Guarneri Hommage in my system with the Rowland 8( choke power supply) and the CAT signature is the best sound I have heard from a speaker. While some larger models like the Maxx 2 and Vandy 5A will go lower in the bass, their intimacy on vocals, small ensemble and acoustic instruments is not even close. ( at least in the pairs I have heard) again IMHO.
The best speakers I have heard are Impulse H1 horn loaded. They play anything and everything and makes Cd's/LP's that one thought of as mere lesser sound quality sound truly wonderful. Of course pucker recordings sound incredible. Music to my ears.
Several people mentioned Alan Hill's Plasmatronic speakers. I had the privilege of hearing them in Alan's home in Albuquerque. The treble is indeed excellent, but the paper cone bass drivers were only adequate. Even the new Martin Logan Vantage has a better integrated bass, and Revel has an excellent response match across the spectrum. Of course, none of those speakers existed thirty years ago when Alan first made his Plasmatronics! Those were the best of their era, and if Alan ever turns his attention to making a full-range Plasmatronic (which he assures me he could do), it might be the best speaker ever. The only reason for saying "might" is price and electrode life in air. He would need quite a development budget to get rid of the helium tanks!
I am a newbie on this site and I have read some interesting threads on 'whats best', my 2cent thread is; A good loudspeaker has simply to make the music sound like real people playing, as if they were playing in front of you. If your system has a particular 'good' listening level, then your system is flawed, a good system should sound the same (quality wise, not loudness) at whatever level the volume is set and not improve as the decibels get louder. There is no such thing as a bad recording. There are systems that can't make musical sense out of the music, beit a cd or LP.
The Living Voice Air Partner is without doubt the greatest of all the speakers that I have heard. The Living Voice Tone Scout is a good second and the Carfraehorn 'Big Horn' is also in the running possibly as third best. I would give a lot to own any of these!
My favorite so far is a pair of Tannoy's Dual Concentric speakers, a DIY project. This comprises some hefty 15" DC unit, a Tannoy supertweeter and some extensive outboard filters in a huge cabinet. Sound is absoluty amazing, closest thing to a live concert I ever encounterd. One major drawback: they aren't mine.....
And last, but not the least, and probably the most fun events ever (granted not the last word in refinement and resolution) were to hear a friend's Cerwin.-Vega DC1515's playing from his varanda onto an open field at a distance of 20m with the sum total of 1600w of Rms power from four mono amps driving them. Totally mind blowing if you can appreciate the sensation of a live rock concert in your backyard!
The best I have ever heard period are the MBL 111e's, have not heard the 101e's ,however, I am sure they are better. The 111e's I heard were in a awesome room, with big dollar every thing. The best "real world speakers" are ATC's Anniversary 50's. I formed these recent opinions over the last two weeks in which I dragged every piece of equipment and cable to listen to over 10 high end speakers. My OPINIONS of all ten speakers are on MY SYSTEM page, if any one cares.
Speakers are the most important. But then which amp will you use with incredible/awesome/"knock-out"/fantastic/UNREAL speakers? Why hook up an amp that compromises these unreal speakers? duh? Next lets say you get the most awesome/incredible speakera nd also a incredible/unreal/dynomite amp, why compromise witha soso/average/bland sounding cdp? duh? Point is, all 3 are 'equally" important BUT first start with speakers, then work from there. Speakers first, then amp, then cdp. In that order. Now as to the question, most awesome sysyrem you heard. I know I answered with my system as the clear winner. BUT that has now since changed. I haerd a speaker system that uped mine by some added bass. It was the Tyler LSS(Linbrook Sig Sys). However I used my JOR and Cayin 17 as associated. So the only cahnge in my above answer was the spaeker upgrade A speaker i hope to own one day next yr. Paul Baton Rouge
I agree,the most important component are speakers.Spend as much as you can afford on them.I would better than 50% of your budget.Even if you don't have systems list buy the speakers first then add to them over time.You will often get better bargains on electronics than speakers.To answer the question of best speaker I ever heard would be the VMPS Towers In a little Audio shop in NJ.Brian Cheney had been there earlier to do some mods,soundcoating was one I think.Anyway my taste in music is Big Bands & Jazz.Man, those speakers blew me away.At the time I had Snell's A2,then Acoustat's 2+2 now NHT's 2.4 suround a/v All very good but don't have that visceral impact of the VMPS
I'd love to talk about modding my ATC's. Assuming my amp packs are a bit tired I'd certainly love to understand what could be done vs. recapping the existing arrangement. Always open to new niche solutions. Would you offer them regardless of what Billy does corporate-wise?
Wait till you hear the custom amp packs crossovers were making for the (right now independently) for the ATC line. Still trying to get Billy to sign on but it will have to wait till he visits for the AES show this fall. Hopefully he can squeeze in a demo.
I removed the amp packs from my Anniversary 50's and used a Lake Contour for the crossover and these new Tomba! amplifiers, which we designed specifically for the 50's.
Uber ATC, improved bass and just overall a more tangible more involving (just easier on the ear) so I could play them about 6db louder and the sound it was remarkable how the bass just stayed strong and controlled the speaker never leaned out, the room acoustics eventually did :). Key is the amps sacrifice zero accuracy and timbre shift, better phase for ridiculous imaging and the above improvements took nothing away from other areas of the sound. It just added a little that made the ATC's simply more lifelike that they are already.
You must have a verified phone number and physical address in order to post in the Audiogon Forums. Please return to Audiogon.com and complete this step. If you have any questions please contact Support.
