The best plug in filter ever!

I love Purons. What they do to my system is different with HFC magnets. For $250 each, Purons could be 1 of the best tweaks I have ever experienced. 
I see that 68pete had moved both Purons in front of system with great success….I still have not done so…. still got stuck in my listening chair.

happy listening ev1

PURON DOUBLE BLIND A/B TESTS

I got my Puron in the mail yesterday, and did the first tests. I asked my wife to sit down and listen to tell me what she thinks. I started off without it, and played a song she knows pretty well. I turned my back so she could not see whether I was  adding or removing the Puron, and did my best to prevent her from being able to tell if I was adding or removing it. I played 30 seconds without it, and she said, "OK." Then I played 30 seconds again without it, and she said, "Yeah, OK." Then I plugged it in cold for the first time, with no burn-in at all, and she immediately said, "Oh, Oh! That one is better." In all, with my randomized A or B tests, she consistently picked the Puron for better sound, identifying 5/5 correctly in this session. She commented that my system sounds "more like it is supposed to sound," and "more real."

Guessing five out of five correctly in a double-blind test is not enough to be statistically significant. We will have to do four more sets for a total of 25 samples minimum to get to statistical certainty. Also, the findings studying one person on one stereo are not enough to make a predictive model about the entire population, each with different stereos. However, she only had a 3.125% chance of guessing correctly five out of five times. But, that can happen, so... more tests needed before I can confirm with sufficient certainty.

I let it burn-in for a day and I did my own first listening tonight and could immediately tell that my system has a different sound. I could hear a lot more information, a lot more easily. This was not a subtle change at all. I liked it almost as soon as I sat down to begin listening. It was easier to follow the melody, and easier to hear the instruments.

So, statistically speaking, my wife can say that she is 96.875% certain that she prefers the sound of the Puron in my system. I can say that I like it too. I will report later what the rest of her listening tests show, but I think I will probably text Mark right now and order a second one. Definately worth $250.

Received my 2 Puron filters yesterday. Shout out to Mark for fast shipping. Have now put one of them on my line that feeds the front end gear. This makes 2 on that line. Both near the wall before the power conditioner. The first one has been in for a while and i was very happy with the sound change for the better. Adding the 2nd one was again a very nice change for the better. Just opens the sound stage up. More air between instruments, more bass punch. I have one on my power line 20 amp that feeds my amp. That was a smaller change for the better, but not as enjoyable as putting it on the front end side. My 4th Puron filter i will add to the system in the next couple of days. Not sure where yet, could end up with it on the front end line near the wall plug or in the power conditioner after the first 2 Puron filters or may try 2 filters on the amp side.

But well worth the money

Quick note

We are now set up “digitally” with UPS for an even better International shipping experience

All digital – very quick and painless now

Thanks to all of you for your incredible support re Puron and FUSE BOX

 I just talked to Mark today and ordered 2 Puron filters. I will be putting one into the receptacle my Audience R12 conditioner is plugged into and the other in the receptacle my amp is plugged into.

 Now for the journey up to Canada. I will report back. Mark has 4 others left in stock after my purchase.

Best to keep them happy in other endeavors.

ozzy

@ozzy 

"C'mon man!" LOL 

Yeah this is probably a bad idea... my wife is going to ask me questions about how much various things in my system cost. 

But I think if you can get your wife to sit still for a couple of hours then remove the Puron she should notice the difference.

Perhaps try using video instead, the eyes can clearly see the improvement in colors, sharpness and depth.

ozzy

Just to put a little hole in your test. I have found that random removal and reinserting the Puron’s to be very difficult to discern differences. It takes a few hours for the full effect.

How will you account for this with your tests?

ozzy’’

I ran it in G*Power, and for my test to be validly predictive of the entire population of listeners, it would need to include at least 89 men and women who were randomly selected. Otherwise, my test results are only going to prove that my wife can (or cannot) clearly hear the difference that it is making in my system. She will also have to listen to at least 30 different sets for me to be able to calculate the correlation strength. But again, this is all being done for fun. 

A. If my testing says that my wife could not consistently detect any difference in a double-blind test, then all the Puron nay-sayers can post pictures of snake oil in here and all of us who bought will just have to endure it. 

B. If my testing reveals that my wife can consistently detect differences with the Puron in the double-blind test, then the nay-sayers will all have to wear paper cone hats for a day and go and buy a Puron in penance. 

Cmon Man, can’t you just enjoy the sound improvement? Or do you enjoy the analysis?

Anyway, if you don’t like it, you can return if for a refund.

ozzy

@holydean  I hope your filter satisfies your hopes and that your wife thinks you're very clever for buying it. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, and what people choose to spend their money on is not my business. As I have said before (and no doubt will have to say again) when recommending anything for purchase by others, there should be some kind of evidence for its benefits, or at least a potential mechanism of action. Without that, we are in testimonial land, and thus lost without a compass.

@dogberry

Yeah I think it does depend on the size of the effect. I think it pretty much all boils down to exactly that. So my point is that if the effect is small enough that you even feel the need to test it,... probably not worth wasting any more of your time on it.

Any work published in any scientific journal has to pass muster when it comes to statistical validity.

BUT

If home testing is fun & enjoyable, sure why not! : )

If I like the Puros, I’ll double-blind test it with my wife listening, since she is biased against me spending money and her hearing is not as rolled off as mine. If my tests support the product... it’s still anecdotal but I think you’re right it has less chance of being biased.

For a double-blind test to be statistically valid, there must be at least 25-30 subjects in the test to assume a standard distribution curve so that you can calculate the reliability of the data.

Rather depends on the size of the effect, doesn't it? And even if we denigrate n=1 trials, as we do, what if they are all you have? Better to try and have some information with wide confidence limits than none at all.

@dogberry

For a double-blind test to be statistically valid, there must be at least 25-30 subjects in the test to assume a standard distribution curve so that you can calculate the reliability of the data. One or two people doing a double-blind test is just anecdotal.

Back in 1995 I bought some very lame tweaks that I thought were worthless, and still do think are worthless. I would listen and think, "Am I hearing an improvement? Well, I paid for the thing so I might as well use it because maybe small changes add up." I think that was just optimism. They were not doing anything of real value for my system.

I think if you meet someone who is happy with everything they try, that doesn’t necessarily mean that everything they try is good but could be indicative that they would like anything that they pay money to receive, as long as someone they trust has told them it will be good. This is bias. I love the quote from Mark Twain that "It’s easier to con someone than to convince them that they’ve been conned."

BUT

Logically, this does not preclude any of their tweaks from actually helping. If we are testing diamonds with a broken diamond tester that will say everything tested is genuine, and it tells us that 20 out of 20 tested stones are genuine, we can dismiss the diamond tester, but we cannot logically assume that the stones are all rubbish and that they should all be thrown in the trash.

Likewise, if someone is testing numerous items and everything tested seems to be worthless snake oil, a critical thinker would question this as well. More so someone who does not even listen to the items and proclaims them all to be snake oil without having any statistically valid evidence to support such a claim. Scientists said that reports of a miracle cure that we now know as vitamin C was "witch doctor superstition" for around 200 years before the scientific community had enough knowledge to understand what all of the anecdotal reports were saying.

But statistical analysis practices aside, if one listens to a supposed improvement in one’s system and does not hear the sort of clear (undeniable) audible difference that one experiences with adding acoustic treatments,... and feels the need to test the "improvement" with a double-blind tests,... then the difference was probably negligible and not worth the trouble.

Since a statistically valid scientific test is probably somewhat impractical for most of us, I suggest that if you listen to something and you even ever-so-slightly feel the need to test, just send it back promptly and get a refund.

That being said, I have purchased products, listened, and then thought, "Pfffft. Lame." I have also purchased other products (secretly without telling my wife) that made me say, "Whoa! That was an improvement!" and then my wife, with no knowledge of anything different, walked through and commented, "Your system sounds better what did you do?"

So, I don’t have any bias about tweaks other than to say 1) I expect some of them to be pure marketing rubbish, 2) I expect most of them to be of negligible value of the sort that would need an A/B test to determine if they are an improvement, in which case I would say the aren’t worth it, and 3) I am open to accept that some of them will make an immediate and undeniable improvement that I can enjoy.

I just bought a Puros, and I will report back to the group with my unbiased but anecdotal critique. 

(The other gear in my system includes: Linn LP12, Levinson No.31 transport on PS audio power conditioner fed by Synergistic Research foundation AC cords, Naim Uniti Atom HE DAC & streamer, SR Foundation XLR interconnects & speaker cables,  Levinson 33H monoblock amps, Wilson Maxx Speakers, Nanoflo on most all connections, seven of Krissy's various bizarre devices, 2 bybee AC devices, Townshend pods, Shunyata Alpha NR & Synergistic foundation AC cables, Shunyata Denali power conditioner, Shunyata venom plug-in filter cap, (4) iFi iPurifiers, upgraded fuses, isolated ground, dedicated audio line from breaker panel & isolation transformer, star grounding for all components on a SMD copper grounding block, Skyline diffusors on ceiling in front of listening position, 5 Tube traps, about a dozen large acoustic panels around the room, more home-made diffusors, and I'm sure I probably forgot to list a lot of my gear.)

(NOTE: I'm open to any system recommendations as well!)

Happy listening to all

Halz

68pete,

Conrgats!

I feel 2 on each dedicated line seems to bring out the best. Even on my dedicated line for my video the picture quality is just awesome with 2! Even my wife reluctantly has noticed, and that is really something!

ozzy

Ordering 2 more today

@sgordon1 yes it is indeed. For this hobby, “everything makes a diff”

@ozzy I still have not moved my 2nd Puron next to 1st Puron at wall outlet yet. It is still at 1st bank of my Puritan 156 and yes, the result still jaw-dropping good- more revealing, clean and very musical. Best sounding I’ve achieved so far.

68pete,

Thus far only tried the NPS-1260. At this point, I don't think it does much. Probably not necessary.

ozzy

Regarding the cheap extension cords or cables: I have found that the weakest link will severely limit the full benefit of what you are hoping to accomplish.  Instead of adding a 1' cable or other "extension," I have bitten the bullet and used quality 1m cables instead, where space/availability permits.  You can certainly hear the difference when you try this both ways.  Reminds me of an old audiophile axiom: "Everything makes a difference."

OZZY

You have had the 1260 or Q45t on your Purons what did you think? Good deal not a good deal.

Seems like it, yes.

ozzy

So, another unexplainable, unmeasurable hi-fi product that “just works”. 
 

sign me up 😏😄

Agree with Ozzy

whostolethebatmobile,

Interesting point.

However, it does seem that it can be too much of a good thing.

Picture a room with increased (too much) lighting. It can just be too much sometimes, and you realize it needs to be less.

In my system with my ears two of them seems to be about right.

ozzy

If the device is properly designed and if it’s the type I described, two will be better than one. three will be better than two. Four will be better than three...keep going as far as you like.

If a device of the type I described gets worse when you add an extra unit, then something is wrong with the design. This is not suggesting anything is wrong with any particular device mentioned in this topic. It’s just something I have proven to my satisfaction by experiment over a long period.

Yes, that is it. They come in handy, especially within tight spots.

ozzy

@ozzy : nothing to worry, it won’t directly link to your own Amazon account. So, is it this? https://www.amazon.com/CyberPower-GC201-Heavy-Duty-Extension/dp/B01JRLSPRW/ref=sr_1_2?crid=FVWBVCKEQNFQ&keywords=cyberpower+extension+cord&qid=1675553166&sprefix=CyberPower+extension%2Caps%2C70&sr=8-2

Sorry for the confusion. I purchased them from Amazon, but when I tried to add that link to this thread, I was afraid there would be a link to my Amazon account. So, I found it advertised elsewhere and used that as the link.

ozzy

@ozzy :

ozzy

6,306 posts

02-04-2023 at 02:22pm

nasaman

Try this.

Buy CyberPower Systems GC201, Extension Cable with Two Gounded Outlet - Prime Buy

It’s even available through Amazon.

ozzy

I am baffled by the website you shared, BuyPrime! Is it affiliated with Amazon? Never seen it before.

Any link to “regular” Amazon for that product? Thanks!

I use these 12ga splitters.

nasaman

Try this.

Buy CyberPower Systems GC201, Extension Cable with Two Gounded Outlet - Prime Buy

It’s even available through Amazon.

ozzy

Holly crap. I switched my 2nd Puron’s location from 3rd bank to 1st bank of my conditioner Puritan 156 and the result was amazing and outstanding. More revealing, more air, space and 3D. More micro details yet more emotion as well. Overall, it sounds cleaner and still maintain musicality.

Important note: it took 20 to 30 mins to started to sing. At first initial switched, music was so dull and dark.... I was disappointed and almost switched them back and called it a day.

Ozzy, great pointer. Thanks

A way to get both Purons in front of my conditioner is to put both Purons on splitters extension cord and plug them in same wall power outlet that feed my conditioner.

So, I just removed the 3rd Puron from my main dedicated outlet. I’m back to thinking 2 Puron’s are enough on a dedicated circuit.

But I did place it in my computer room on a completely different house circuit into a power strip that has my Modem, Uptone Regen, clock etc.

At this location, the streaming audio quality has just gone up a notch. Highly recommended placement.

ozzy

nasaman,

Do you have anyway of plugging both of the Puron's before your power conditioner?

ozzy

Some folks just got better ears than l. Much better. 

I already have 1 Puron plugged in at wall feeding my Conditioner Puritan 156. The 2nd Puron is on third bank of Puritan 156. Per Ozzy, I shall try the 2nd Puron toward to 1st bank to see what changes.

Because of characteristic differences between NPS-1260 and Q45-T, IMO, 1260 may match better with Purons than Q45T? Thats just my guess now.

At the moment, I’m still running the Purons "raw & naked" but I’d try myself 1260 on Purons first way before Q45T.

Heck, I may give Mad Scientist enhancer another try on Puron as it’s just laying around...

Ozzy

Thanks for all the great updates. I do not think i can part with all my High Fidelity tweaks at this time. Glad to hear your sound is great. Keep the great post coming. I do enjoy and learn from them.

nasaman,

I think I have answered this question before, but I am glad you brought it up again.

Now that I have removed the other devices, I just retried my dedicated line using 3 Puron’s.

Yes, 2 is better than one and I now believe 3 is still better. There is more minute detail coming through.

I also can say that the closer you can place the Puron to the wall outlet that your system is plugged in the better it performs. So, try to avoid extension cables etc.

ozzy

Tweak1

I used it on some power cords. With a light sand paper and emery board it came off with a good amount of elbow grease. Its was on about a day when i took it off. The Q45t comes off easy even after be on for a long period.

@68pete

You said "I have tried the Mad Scientist cable enhancer. In my system it was pretty good, but the Q45t was much better across the board. Yes more money but better."

Curious to hear how you could evaluate/conclude since it seems difficult, if not impossible to remove all to one to apply the other

Has anyone used more than 2 Purons in a system yet?

Of course he is going to say that. 
 

Ricks new formula which he says is even better than the 1260 and the Q-45T.

@ozzy : no problem. These sad lifeless angry dudes crack me up. Sad

tksteingraber,

Well, that’s interesting. Thanks for trying the Puron without the HF plug in. BTW, I ordered some of Ricks new formula which he says is even better than the 1260 and the Q-45T.

With the Puron’s I have found that not only do I not need the HF, but I also removed some Noise Destroyers I had from years back on my video and also no longer have a Puron plugged into my Niagara 7000 I just have them plugged into the wall.

To me, it does things much better on its own.

But hey, we all have different equipment so our results will vary.

BTW, Thanks thyname for the cover.

ozzy

@ozzy

On my system it sounds best with both the High Fidelity MC-Pro and the Puron vs either one on their own. . Quite noticeable. Extended cleaner bass, clearer highs, quieter background and increased gain.  The Puron and MC Pro are both plugged into same duplex along with my power conditioner which all components are plugged into

Dog,

Why so angry?

Try to keep an open mind, it might surprise you.

A mind so open your brains fall out?

tksteingraber,

I hear ya!

Can you try the Puron sans the High Fidelity MC-Pro? Let me know what you think?

ozzy