I wrote an extremely long review of 4 cables auditioned in my system recently. I pontificated for way too long and it was more an outlet for me to tell a story that cables do matter and how much each design can make your system sound. The last cable through was the Teo GC IC purchased here and it truly was a game-changer in how it shifts our paradigm about what wire gives us as "truth" and what this slurry of Ga-In-Sn can do better (IMO). Not a technical review but an emotional roller coaster through 4 different topologies:
Ribbons Graphene Multi-strand Liquid
I'm happy to re-broadcast that here but it is very long (6+ MSWord pages long). I'll point to it for now and take your advice.
Bottom line is the GC cable is truly stunning in what it can do and for us mere mortals who cannot spend thousands on cabling, I believe it can elevate anyone's system to new heights.
Seriously dude. You really are positioning yourself to any reasonable person as a total "phlog". Why anyone would make such juvenile comments on an adult forum I have no idea. You either are a juvenile yourself or just trolling for the hell of it. Graham
Randy, If you are so concerned about consumer fraud, go after McDs anf BK for TV ads that show a very different sandwich than the ones they actually serve.
The liquid metal conductor, and it's advantages, have been well discussed, but I have been doing some reading about the KLEI Copper Harmony RCA plugs that are used on the GCs:
As a happy GC owner, I'm not trying to tear down the GC in any way with this comment, but regarding the KLEI connectors - yes there are other entry level cables that have used this kind of connector. I have a number of Signal Cable interconnects with these connectors from when they were previously just called Eichmann bullet connectors. And these Signal Cable interconnects were only in the $100-200 range.
The KLEIs are a further development and refinement of the Eichmann bullets by Keith Louis Eichmann, who invented them. Reviewers who have compared them say the KLEIs are better sounding. I haven't seen the KLEIs used on any cables, besides their own, and the GCs. There probably are some others, though.
We may have to revise the ’time for break in’ upward, as they are demonstrably different than the machined earlier ETI RCA jacks we used to use.
The ETI RCA’s are machined copper, whereas the KLE ones are folded over copper. What the single folding over does, it is disturbs the crystal lattice and takes more than 100hrs to get it’s subtleties of continuity back.
We use a specific form of pre-conditioning break in/burn in... and ask that people do not use any beak in devices or hardware techniques, other than standard listening at line level. Ie, off an fm tuner to an input ...or between a line level source at 2v rms max, into a standard 10kohm and up load. NO burn in hardware/devices.
In my system the Game Changer was pretty good after just a few hours in my system. After about the 30 day mark with over 200 hours of low volume level, with CD player spinning a disc on repeat and an additonal 50 hours of regular playing and listening, I was really impressed by the cables attributes. Very large soundstage laterally and depth wise along with incredible retrieval of detail. The GC just has wonderful natural tone and a sound more like the real thing! Two weeks later I got another jump up in performance that really caught me off guard and thrilled me. Now even bad harsh discs sound pretty darn good! I do not feel the need to buy SACD versions of music anymore. So I would say you may really need 45 to 60 days to see what this cable can do. I am pretty shocked at what a CD can sound like on my Sony 5400.
I took my GC to a friend's house for him and another audio friend to listen to and they were both really impressed immediately. The GC made his other cable sound sterilie in comparison...it just made the music sound beautiful is the best way I can describe it. The other friend had tried the GC in his system and said it didn't sound like that in his system and I told him about my breaki in experience and that he may have needed more time. My friend has since bought two GC'S for his system. I believe Bob will be posting his experiences with the GC here soon
It was a possibility.... but the stumbling block, in one aspect, is that there is not a single XLR connector that is built to handle the build requirements of a fluid conductor. They are all built to anchor and strain relief via the wire body and that is a total no-show for a fluid conduit. The second problem is that the idea of error correction and how it is handled in the analog domain on an electrical signal in the balanced configuration. That is a legacy mentality and methodology and it really should not be applied to electrical digital signal transfer. This was a big problem in early digital signal on balanced lines and also with HDMI. Early HDMI cabling, termination, and i/o hardware was not up to snuff.
What this indicates is that the method itself is hobbled from the get-go and the fix for it is a greater level of exactness..an exactness that says nothing about jitter. Digital coaxial probably has less inherent jitter, besides being able to deal with fairly high data rates. The balanced design in digital signal transfer, is mostly to prevent interference when running lines all across the floor or across the given connectivity area for a concert, or whatnot. ’Pro’ does not mean high fidelity in most cases, it just means ’must not fail in operational context’, and has no designs on fidelity, just functionality of connectivity.
Ie, the best way to build an analog audio balanced cable is probably -to ignore all the pro level requirements. In a home environment those pro design standards are virtually meaningless, they don’t apply.
I (the Ken part of Teo) buy into the idea of balanced amplifiers... but I don’t buy into balanced signal transfer in home high fidelity. I happen to think that the fluid is most well suited to balanced signal transfer, probably moreso than any wire. But that does not change the point that balanced is introducing two-three-four problems into the mix instead of just one, with each problem being tied to signal degradation. The degradation comes out as subtle high frequency transient information that is false... which some will interpret as greater levels of detail.
Circling back to the start, sort of..this degradation is shown to exist via the problems that occurred when AES/EBU and HDMI came into being. those problems were tamed enough to get the bits to transfer... but again, nothing about jitter.... and in analog, this would show as transient emphasis and damage.
You listen to an all balanced system..and what do your hear....but exactly that. :) The balanced emperor wears no clothes, kinda thing. Or at least ’clothes that have an inherently greater ability to tell the wrong stories’. Some people can make or put together great sounding all balanced systems, but not be aware that doing at least as well can also occur with a single end RCA connected system. Balanced can be more like hifi and RCA can be more like music. All things being equal, which they never are... but might average out to being -in the greater scope of the problem.
A clear headed analysis of analog audio signals, electronics, wire, dielectrics, signal transfer, etc..yields one inescapable fact..which is the best we can possibly do, is perfect signal transfer, minus some small aspects of fine detail, subtle, almost imperceptible degradation of transients and so on. Much like that of master tape vs a copy of the master, vs a copy of the copy and so on. It is more subtle than the degradation from honest tape duplication/copying, but it is most definitely there.
People try to fix that via equipment and cables and can sometimes end up with some given form of screech that finally intrudes enough that we recoil at the noise. At that given moment we may finally understand it is not increased detail, but ugly noise.
I purchased the Teo GC cables and decided to keep them, although I usually keep my High Fidelity interconnects in. The GC is a nice change of pace, in my system.
Today, I put a High Fidelity interconnect magnet on the Teo GC, and it opened up an already nice sound. Just letting Teo owners know, so they can try it in there own system, if they wish.
Just think, If Teo and High Fidelity got together , they could make a cable no one could afford.
Genjamon Teo GC and Reveal HF ic , music has more energy and live sound that's what HF does, the Teo gives you naturality and dynamic more than you wish for.they match very well...
I added in some HFC Adapters to the ends of my GC's and was pleasantly surprised by the added detail and soul while retaining the GC smoothness. No downside in this combo. Thanks for the tip acman.
I read this comment about one person’s experience with Teo Audio Game Changer cables on another audio board (canuckaudiomart), and thought I would share it.
Argh. Cable listening tests. You may think what you like of them. I have done a number of them, blind, and I often find it hard, not necessarily to hear differences, but to describe them. For example, one good cable recently was lively, almost boosted-sounding, but with a quality that seemed to me like the audio version of the smell of new plastic. Know what I mean? If not, I can’t blame you. It takes a lot of concentrated attention, and then thinking, to come up with meaningful words sometimes.
And of course, it’s absurd to talk about the “sound” of a cable. Cables don’t make sounds, they influence them. But the language makes it hard to keep the distinction in mind.
I wouldn’t have bought the “plastic” cable. I am trying, though, to find a way to buy a couple of Teo Audio’s cables. This time, I’m fairly confident that I’ll be able to tell you why, in a way that makes sense.
A change in an audio system is only an upgrade if it delivers more information to your ears. Everyone can relate to words like “the music came closer”, “it seemed more real” or “a veil was lifted”. Of course these are clichés now, but they reflect people trying to describe what an upgrade sounds like. After the Teos were delivered, my girlfriend was good enough to sit down and listen to a blind cable swap, and that’s what she said.
Well, she doesn’t know the clichés. What she really said was “a veil descended”. That was after I put the old cables back in.
Maybe you can stop reading now! All you need to know is that the reference cable was nothing shabby. Not a recent design, it cost over $500 originally, and it has held up extremely well in comparisons with more modern cables at a similar price. I particularly like the way it doesn’t play with the music’s harmonic structure. Some cables seem faster, but don’t leave that intact. It’s discontinued, and I had put ETI connectors on it, like ones the Teo cables have.
OK, you want a little more detail, you audiophile you.
I used a recording I own in both digital and vinyl versions. It’s a 1980s PCM recording by DGG, so we can’t expect scads of information off the bat. However the performance is of rare intensity and serves the music brilliantly. The two instruments involved are the cello and the piano, whose interplay is one of the charms of the composition. The Teo cables gave each one its rightful place, whereas the reference cable gave a slight prominence to the cello. In addition, the Teo cables provided more complexity of timbre, a greater sense of depth and overall, that sense of a lifted veil which lets you in on details of timing and dynamics and persuades you that you are listening to highly proficient artists and not something vaguely synthetic (like plastic). In particular, the trailing edges of notes seemed prolonged, in a natural way, whereas the reference cable seemed to truncate them before they were quite finished. This helped the flow of the music and was a factor in my letting myself get caught up in it.
What was most remarkable to me was the fact that I got caught up in the music at all. My reference tube monoblock amplifiers were out of service, and I had swapped in my only backup, a chip amp. A highly regarded chip amp, but still, such a downgrade that I had hardly been spending any time with music since the reference left.
The Teo cables made the music so much more interesting that I started listening again.
No, the Teo-branded sonics weren’t enough, on their own, to bring the backup amp to reference level. When I listened to Rachel Podger’s magnificent performance, with her band Brecon Baroque, of Vivaldi’s La Stravaganza concertos in a 24/192 recording made on top-class equipment by Jared Sacks of Channel Classics, the lushness and 3-dimensional interplay I’m accustomed to was reduced enough that I stopped listening after a while. Aww. (By the way, since I’m naming names here, the cello and piano recording mentioned above was the J. S. Bach Sonatas for Cello and Piano played by Mischa Maisky and Martha Argerich.)
But then I did something I now wish I’d done earlier. My connection from preamp to amps is a long one, and I usually use a 2-metre cable for it. However I realized I could get the chip amp closer without moving the speakers much or at all. I tried it, and the second Teo loaner fit. That meant I could listen to an all-Teo interconnect set.
Well, with the Teos between DAC and preamp, and between preamp and amp too, my system was back. Not exactly the same sound quality the monoblocks give; things were a bit more bluff and forthright, less delicate, as perhaps you’d expect from solid state. The resolution was all there, though, and there was even more.
For one thing, the bass. A low piano note in the cello sonata was newly rich with harmonics and weight. The violins of Brecon Baroque allowed the cello and double bass to share the stage equally — all too rare in baroque music recordings. More difficult to describe is the thing I can express best as a change in how my system handled phase relationships. There was an impression that microtiming was better, that all the players were together on the downbeat, and the combined wavefronts from that shared downbeat arrived at my ears at the same time, the way they left the instruments. This was a physical impression. It made the performers occupy space in my listening room, and it seemed to me I was not working as hard to be involved in the music. In fact, I let myself go and let the music caress me in a way I thought I remembered from when I was much younger. It was delicious. I think I found something I didn’t know I was looking for.
Well, that means the Teos pulled off a trick that was worth the difference in price between my tube monoblocks and the chip amp, minus the Teos’ cost. That formula works out to much more than the cost of two pairs of Teo Game Changers, and puts the cables’ price in a new light.
Unfortunately, my tube amps won’t be back until I have to send the Teos on to the next participant in the round-robin that brought them to me. I’m sorry to see them go, but I’m happy for the next guy. And I’m intensely curious to see what Teos do with my tubes. Which is why I’m scraping up the cash I will need to get my own Teos, on their money-back guarantee. My hunch that I’ll be keeping them is very strong.
wcheng2 17 posts 08-04-2017 9:19pm Anyone try the teo preamp?
yes 3 of us had a shootout with it against a modded bottlehead beepre. 2 out of 3 preferred the bottlehead and the third guy was on the fence saying he could hear positives to both. The teo preamp sounded like a typical passive, a hair on the polite side lacking a bit of drive and impact. The bottlehead had better bass,mids, presence and staging, the only thing the teo did slightly better was the highs. We also had one of the teo interconnects going from pre to amps and I could discern no difference in sound from my neotech. System was a pair of Sophia 845 monos driving a pair of Tannoy yorkminsters Source was a loaded vpi tnt with a vandenhul colibri on a SME tonearm going into a Herron phonostage.
randy-11 1,592 posts 06-21-2017 10:37pm I have no BS to add. I do give good technical information out.
If bumpydoo wants to engage in magical thinking that is sad.
Actually I think randy11 is right to question. Why is it that when somebody interrupts one of these lovefests he is labelled a troll? I like to know and understand the science behind the things I am listening to. If it's not making sense I want to know why. If I just spent a few thousand on some cables I better damn well be able to pick them out in a blind test or else I want my money back. I can't understand why more people don't share this view!
No, bumperdoo is not Teo. He has heard the Teo cables, yes. Even some of the prototypes. I believe he may have one (cable) in his system right now.
As for the passive thing, I dunno. Two reviewers both think it is ’state of the art’ regardless of passive, or active, or any given passive technology. Their conclusions, not mine.
As for science, those who have no edge and are all commonality tend to fluff and bluff the technological white paper and written fireworks. What if someone has something interesting and does not want to share the info? As sharing it causes ridicule from some and quiet contemplation from those who like to steal others thunder. Reveals in such scenarios are built out of lose --and contain no win.
If one has excellent cards -- then... keep them close and play them when best. ’Nuff said.
@janehamble....that wasn't very nice....for the record, I am the other half of TEO Audio ( Ken, who writes under teo_audio, being the other...there are only two of us)....to insinuate that bumperdoo is playing some sort of sock-puppet role is, uhh, basically wrong, and as mentioned above not nice, not nice at all....again, for that proverbial record, he is a close friend, and just happens to be a very outspoken and enthusiastic fan of our products ( of which he has owned several...and played in one of the very best, and revealing, systems I have ever had the pleasure to experience ...).....
....we dealt with you in an honest and fair manner and we get this dropped on our lap ?.....frankly, I hoped for better, much better....
@analogluvr....interesting insight into the rules that you feel define the game here....so a big thanks for spelling that out , gotta say that helps put some things into perspective...
...yeah ain’t projection grand....yup, that’s our dear randy-11, right as rain yet once again ( must be tough to be so dead nuts on like all the time....well except for this epic face-plant.. ).....as Ken says that was just me blundering about blindly and hopelessly flailing ...wasn’t really a good start to the morning....
...but we did find out who says what about whom and why...so not a total wash....now forewarned, and forearmed, eh....
....word of advice, when in a hole stop digging....and btw more than one face-plant a day may have lasting negative effect on your health...so maybe time to ease off eh....
From previous threads, you enjoy being one of the first responders to be
a cable denier. Have you ever auditioned high quality cables? From this thread
that you started, you mention that you haven’t changed the tubes in
your 10 year old tube preamp. You didn’t even know what was meant by
’tubes wearing down’. How is it that you have over 1500 posts and you
don’t even know what you’re talking about?
Now that's an IDIOT!
Double blind test, double blind test ... LOL!!!
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