Augwest,
I sold all but one of my famous SR products that, in the end, proved to be underwhelming -- once I got enough experience under my belt to really compare combs. Although I have not tried HFT and FEQ, your experience does not surprise me in the least. Ted Denney likes to use superlatives. You may have noticed. |
I have a comment on this as I have the ART system, HFPs and FEQ system with a $100K system and they are sensational! Not only did they tighten up the bass in the room, the clarity with which both analog and digital ended up with is surreal.
Let me say, we are extremely picky listeners and I spent a total of 4 hours with Peter Hansen and Scott setting up the ART, HFP and FEQ and have had them back and re-tweeked it so it is perfect.
The assistance received on the set up was excellent and every single component made improvements to the system - you could tell when it made it harsh and would remove it and then place in somewhere else testing and in the right position these HFPs were blow away. Then putting the FEQ on-line was another quantum leap - removed any muddiness in the room.
The product is shockingly effective. It just needs to be placed correctly and you have an phenomenal listening room. |
In response to AUGWEST concerning HFT accoustic treatments
My system is superb with alot more $$$ invested.
I found a tremendous improvement especially in the soundstage.
Of course, I made sure I contacted the manufacturer to get the info about placement.
Also, when I bought the HFT treatment I was made aware that if I was unhappy they could be returned.
Honestly, it sounds that AUGWEST might have some agenda.
Plaids |
What the heck is a HFT or FEQ ? |
Ozzy,
They are on the Synergistic Research Home Page. |
Sabai, I do not see them on the home page. |
|
Ozzy,
Scroll down to TENTH ANNUAL with the girl in the poster. |
Plaids,
Agenda? So, do you mean that everyone who honestly reports audio experiences that contradict what others report has an agenda? This is a rather odd comment to make. IMO. |
Plaids wrote,
Also,, when I bought the HFT treatment I was made aware that if I was unhappy they could be returned.
"Honestly, it sounds that AUGWEST might have some agenda."
Plaids/Yvogonzy just pop up on the AG fresh off the street and this is their first posts here!! Have we not been here before boys and girls?
I would believe the OP's report over the two 1st time reporters. Looks to me like maybe the rookies are hired guns??
So now we will have the two HG's wring in to defend themselves, right? Don't want to hear it.
The new RMAF toys SR brings to the show every year are starting to grow old and people are catching on to its madness!!
|
I find it odd that, all of a sudden, out of the woodwork, two members with no feedback and no history of any posts are impelled to jump into this thread. Hmmm. |
Augwest, I assume these are the little unit that went behind the system and the resonators that stuck on the Bose radio. I certainly heard their effect but really could say nothing as the Bose still sounded awful.
I certainly do not share your opinion on the Quantum fuses, however, I have them in everything with a fuse. I think the key to them is the quantum tunneling.
I suppose like most everything in audio, we have so many choices and so few opportunities to hear them compared that our likes are idiosyncratic judges. |
Tbg,
I believe a disclosure would be appropriate here. |
Plaids wrote,
Also,, when I bought the HFT treatment I was made aware that if I was unhappy they could be returned.
"Honestly, it sounds that AUGWEST might have some agenda."
Plaids/Yvogonzy just pop up on AG fresh off the street and this is their first posts here!! Have we not been here before boys and girls?
I would believe the OP's report over the two 1st time reporters. Looks to me like maybe the rookies are hired guns??
So now we will have the two HG's wring in to defend themselves, right? Don't want to hear it.
The new RMAF toys SR brings to the show every year are starting to grow old and people are catching on to its madness!! |
Let's put Synergistic Research under the microscope for a moment. These are my observations under my microscope.
On his Home Page Ted Denney reaches into the deep, dark past of audio to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat -- as the inventor of the very first power cord -- the incomparable Master Coupler. You may never have heard of the most famous power cord in the history of high end audio. I have the original literature that Ted wrote about his legendary Master Coupler -- that produces SQ of zero value in today's audio world. The Master Coupler literature sounds exactly like his literature that accompanies the Galileo Series and the Element Series. It sounds like he cut and pasted.
I am impressed by Ted's Home Page where you can read fresh news about "The History of Audio According to its Self-Proclaimed Leader". Superlatives and categorical statements flow fast from the typewriter of Ted Denney -- once again. He should have entitled his latest piece of copy "Delusions of Grandeur". Ya gotta have a sense of humor when you read Ted Denney -- when he talks about "the culmination of my life's work" in shamelessly self-laudatory and self-aggrandizing terms. Fact is, I know some well-known cable makers out there, and some boutique cable makers, quietly making cables that put his world-famous SR cables to shame. By a country mile.
I note that HFT and FEQ are already making history "... capable of transforming any system to unbelievable heights". Any system? Not according to Augwest. By the way, did you also know that, according to Ted Denney, "In fact, the new Galileo Universal Speaker Cells elevate even modest speaker cables to near state-of-the-art status ..." Near state-of-the-art status with his Speaker Cells? Using even modest speaker cables? Alice in Wonderland. Not even close in my system. But never mind -- you can definitely turn a sow's ear into a silk purse at Synergistic Research -- because Ted Denney says so. But caveat emptor. He just replaced his typewriter ribbon.
In my opinion, Ted Denney has yet to "turn the world of audio on its ear" as he proclaims about the latest and greatest HFT and FEQ. Certainly, regarding his cables, IMO, Synergistic Research produces no outstanding cables -- just run-of-the-mill audio products designed to capture a certain segment of the audio market. And nothing more. With version after version -- adding Enigma Bullets, adding SE and LE series -- since they did not get it right the first time.
Did you ever stop to consider all of the permutations? Just look at the new Element series with copper, silver, tungsten, CTS and all the Enigmas. I mean, what a total mass of confusion. But you'd never know there was anything amiss through all the hoopla that flows from the typewriter of Ted Denney. According to him, there is no one cable that gets all the work done -- on DACs, CD players, transports, amps and preamps. But that is only according to him -- because he never got to the place where others already arrived. If you follow his up-trade program you eventually end up with a single cable and empty pockets. Just figure out the math. I can tell you one thing. Ted Denney knows how to use a calculator better than most people. Figure it out. When you go to the casino who ends up the big winner? The Big Audio Casino is called Synergistic Research.
After playing the SR game for too long I have sold off all but one of my SR products. And it will be gone soon. What about my statement in an earlier thread that "SR makes some great products."? In retrospect, with what I have learned in the interim about the products of other audio companies and some of my own experiments, I was very wrong in my initial enthusiasm about SR products. My experience was too limited at that time. There is no use in Ted quoting my old posts to try to score debate points. There is no contradiction when new experience supplants old experience.
Now let's wait and see if some no-feed-back, never-made-a-post members rush to Ted's defense. |
Sabai, huh! A posting that started on 10-16-13 and you wonder about participating in this thread after four days. |
Tbg,
With all due respect, you have avoided addressing the point I am making about the need for you to make a disclosure, IMO. |
Sabai, I must admit I am at a loss in understanding what you are talking about here. Please just send me a private email if you will. |
Tbg,
If I am mistaken in my belief that you may be associated with the high end audio industry then please accept my apologies. |
Tbg,
I did a bit of homework. This is from an earlier Audiogon thread:
"12-12-08: Tbg
Norm Luttbeg did a review on Dagogo."
And then a few posts later:
"12-12-08: Tbg
http://www.dagogo.com/ISSUE/Dec2008.html
I should say that I am Norm."
Were you referring to yourself in the third person in the first post, above? Are you Norm Luttbeg, the reviewer, or do I have this all wrong. If so, my apologies. |
|
Sabai, you are right that I am a reviewers, now for StereoTimes. I have never hidden that. My editors don't like me to post here or on other sites, but I insist. And in this case nothing I said was altered by my reviewing. I am not reviewing anything from SR now nor would it influence me were I to being doing one. There is a reason why I am with the third magazine now. |
I should note that I asked Audiogon whether I needed to declare myself a reviewer as AudioAsylum requires. I was told no. |
Tbg,
Thank you for clarifying this. |
Tbg,
You have reviewed Synergistic Research products very favorably in the past. I thought it would be appropriate for you to make a disclosure because this thread concerns their products. |
I find this thread interesting. SR does not like negative feedback, it is as simple as that.
In full disclosure, I won their MiGs in a Facebook contest after I started following them because my uncle is a user of several of their products. I shared pictures with them, thanked them, all that stuff. Then I started demoing the MiGs in my system and had my uncle demo them in his system as well. I didn't hear a difference in my system. My uncle claims to have heard a difference when using the MiGs, but wasn't impressed with them. So, I wrote a blog post sharing our experiences (my blog is relatively new). I'm a business writer, I report facts, the facts for me were that the MiGs didn't perform as marketed and that I wouldn't recommend them to other beginner audiophiles without trying them first, but I certainly didn't report that in a hostile tone.
Well, isn't it interesting that the first comment I received from an anonymous poster on the blog came to SR's defense (just like here) and basically told me that the MiGs didn't work because my system isn't of the right caliber. Ok, maybe my beginner audiophile setup isn't of the highest caliber, but my uncle's is a very nice system of separates, and he wasn't impressed either. And the way their marketing copy reads, their products should help any system.
Well today I discovered that SR has also blocked me from being able to comment or like anything on their Facebook page.
I think it's a bit silly that a company that is supposedly so ground-breaking and a leader in the industry can't handle a little bit of criticism from a personal blog. SR seems to be the one with an agenda to mute any naysayers. But I would never comment negatively on a product I haven't tried for myself in the first place.
Congrats to any and all who report their experiences honestly and objectively. |
Same here - I gave the products a fair chance and they did not perform as advertised. The situation would be vastly different if they had been honest, for instance by telling me that the tweak would change the sound of my system and I might or might not like the result, especially when I asked the lead designer that question straight up a couple of different ways ("Is there a trade-off?" and "Could it possibly degrade the sound or imaging?") I was assured that there was no trade-off, and that sonic degradation was impossible. Both statements proved to be untrue. As it is, I will be highly skeptical of any and all Synergistic Research products going forward. |
Interesting stuff. Lots of people and press at the event suggests the demo clearly demonstrated that the product was of substance. But as with most audio, especially in this arena of acoustic spatial add-ons it is not only system but room dependent. I'd only give this a go with the assistance of trained dealers who've had both experience in their own shops and with customers. However, if I was a dealer, I'd better feel it worth the time and effort to set up this product. Given its relatively low cost (at least for those of us with rather expensive gear) it certainly had better benefit nearly all environments, or it won't do well going forward. But I'd certainly not discount its affects. There's much we don't really know or understand about what the ear/brain system captures, and the psycho acoustic effect it has on our listening experience. |
Stevebythebay, at the RMAF, I heard a Bose radio sound different with and without these devices. Is that proof of "substance?" |
I tried 5x HRT on my home theatre in my living room. What I heard was an increased low bass and separation. I removed them and the magic was gone. Yes the effect is obvious and tangible (for the bass shaking the floor). Rushed back to the shop and bought more for my audio room.I haven't install the FEQ though. |
Yes, even 5 HRT units will improve the sound. As more units are placed the sound becomes more detailed but with less fatigue and with a much more satisfying sound stage. Most rooms are optimized with 20 to 25 units. The Frequency Equalizer (FEQ) significantly lowers floor noise and improves detail through the audible spectrum.
I continue to be very satisfied with how both products have improved the sound in my two listening areas. One is audio only and the other is home theater. |
David
How do they stack up with the Energizers? |
In the above post Glory mentioned "the Energizers". These are the IPC Acoustic Energizers. They received a glowing review in Stereo Times this year. I in fact bought the five Acoustic Energizers that Glory previously owned. They emit some type of elctromagnetic energy and not a type of acoustic sound wave.
The combination of the Synergistic Research HRT's + Frequency Energizers and the IPC Energizers is truly amazing. Each company's product compliments the beneficial effects of the other. The SR product ties in the room's acoustic signature to the acoustic signature on the recording. Also there is a marked decrease in audible noise when the ground plane feature of the Frequency Equalizer is turned on.
The IPC Energizers work on different aspects of music listening. In place and turned on the music seems to flow further into the room but the soundstage depth also deepens.
After having both systems in place and either turning them off or removing them from the room, I have a good feel for what they do. The effect is quite magical. Recording after recording is greatly improved. It does not have an artificial "enhancement" feel to it.
I hope Glory will avail himself to try the Synergistic Research HRT's+ Frequency Equalizer. Looking at his system set up, I think he will be pleased. We have several things in common. Glory's room looks like it is not the traditional rectangle. My listening area is part of an open "L" shaped floor plan. |
yes my right speaker has the whole kitchen area to its right and there is 22' open ceilings to allow the sound to escape the speakers.
I thought the IPC products were smashing and will have a shot at the SR products. |
Especially for non-symetric rooms, the Synergistic Research HFT+ Frequency Equalizer can be a major system improvement. Where I do not have walls to put the HRT's where recommended: I made stands using Home Depot 1x2 by 8 foot pieces of wood attached to a wooden base using right angle brackets. These HRt's were especially helpful in restoring some room symmetry. This improved all aspects of the stereo image.
With the 30 day trial there is plenty of time to try the system and see it's effect. |
Whatta FEQ y'all tackin' about? |
Call me a pigeon, ordered a 5 pack of HFT. Hope it does NOT disappoint! |
I have two different rooms treated with the Synergistic Research HFT (High Frequency Tuning System). With one pack of 5 tuning bullets you will hear a change in soundstage. The system really begins to shine with 15 HFT bullets in place (three boxes) and then becomes spectacular when 25 HFT bullets (five Boxes) are in place. The Synergistic Research installation video is quite helpful. It only takes a few minutes to install 25 of the bullets as they attach to the wall with included Blu Tac reusable adhesive.
With the 30 day money back guarantee I hope people who try this system will go ahead and make their initial trial 15 to 25 HFT bullets ( three to five boxes). As you put up each group of 5 HFT's you will hear the soundstage expand and then become increasingly more rich and detailed.
I found the Synergistic Research HFT + Feq system to be my upgrade of the year. Why? The marked improvement of course but even more so. Unlike the laborious trial of trying and breaking in new cables etc., the HFT's are easy to install, the sound change is immediate, and they can be returned if you do not like them. Finally in this moble changing society, they can be moved from room to room or a new city with no damage to the walls.
I will not be without them. |
The cost for these little gizmos seems outrageous considering how light weight they are. And based on past SR history they will soon be replaced with a mark 2 version.
But, I have 2 sets on loan and they do seem to expand the soundstage. However, sometimes I think the sound doesn't sound quite right. I just can't quite get a handle on it.
I did find that placing them slightly higher is better in my room than the lower height shown in the directions. And I think for my usage, 3 sets would seem about right.
So, I am still in the undecided testing stage. |
I have been curious about the HFT/FEQ due to the challenges I have with room dimension and acoustic treatment options. Let us know your results Knghifi. |
As you put up each group of 5 HFT's you will hear the soundstage expand and then become increasingly more rich and detailed. Still UNDECIDED sticking them on my TAD E1s. Yikes! I'm remodeling my home and walls are bare so hope these will improve the sound until it's done. Room is 33'x25'x15' and currently system sits on half the long wall. Left hand side is open with no wall so will be interesting. I finally decided to buy them after watched Peter Breuninger video and have respect for his opinion. |
Ozzy
Two sets of HFT's mainly demonstrate that they have an effect. Like you I have a QOL unit in my listening room. I sincerely hope you will order three additional boxes to really tune your room acoustics. With two sets (10 of the little bullets) of HFT's my soundstage changed but lacked focus. AS I put in the next three sets of HFT's I heard a real change for the better. As you have heard, the locations suggested in the instructions are only starting points. With additional HRT's in place you might move the units up or down from where they are now.
I am finding the combination of the HFT's + FEQ unit with the BSG Technologies QOL unit to be sonic bliss. |
Well, I guess I am giving it them a thumbs up.
I went ahead and purchased 3 sets. The 3rd set will arrive later this week.
How the heck these little items actually do something is a real mystery to me. But once you try them, your gonna keep them. Just don't tell the wife how much they cost each... |
Well, I guess I am giving them a thumbs up.
I went ahead and purchased 3 sets. The 3rd set will arrive later this week.
How the heck these little items actually do something is a real mystery to me. But once you try them, your gonna keep them. Just don't tell the wife how much they cost each... |
Knghi: With the open wall, the HFT's can still be utilized. It is easy to make a stand for a HFT. I went to Home Depoit and made a stand using the following: 1"x2"x6 foot board mounted to a 11"x9" wood base. I used 4 L shaped brackets to attach the vertical board to the base. Cost less than $10.00.
On placing the HFT's on speakers, put a trial dab of the HFT's Bluetac on the back of the speaker and then remove. This way you can test to make sure no problems to the finish of the speakers.
With your large lively room the Synergistic Research FEQ Unit will be a big help. It will tighten up the base and lower the floor noise of the room allowing you to hear more of the music.
I look forward to your observations. |
David,
I now have had the chance to try 5 sets of the HFT's. I definitely will keep 3 sets.
But, the additional 2 sets are supposed to be placed on the speakers and on digital equipment.
To be honest, I really didn't think there was enough additional improvement to warrant buying the additional sets based on that placement.
Before I send the other 2 sets back is there somewhere else I should try to place them ? |
Ozzy,
Counted up the number of HFT's on the walls and ceiling and the count was 15. In my system the additional 8 on the speakers and 2 on the SACD player was beneficial but not critical. It sound like your room is "dialed" in. I would consider sending the two sets of HRT's back and auditioning the FEQ Unit(High Frequency Equalizer Unit). This will tightened up the bass and lower the floor noise. I very much like the combination of the HFT's and the FEQ. By doing different things they are quite complimentary in their effect. |
David, Thanks, that's exactly what I am doing. I should have the FEQ later this week.
I must confess that I have found the little HFT's to be quite powerful.
When I read the instructions on Level 3 I thought the additional HFT's were to go in between the corner HFT and the centered HFT. After rereading the instructions it says to place the additional HFT's between the centered HFT and the speakers. When I moved them, bam! The center image became rock solid and the 3D sound was all dialed in.
Now I'm hooked.
Looking forward to placing the FEQ.
Question:
I have 3 dedicated circuits with a Power Plant P10 powering the digital on one. My analog is on another and the subs are on another. I know one of the FEQ plugs will go into the Power Plant P-10. But what about the ground plug?
I would prefer it to go straight into a wall outlet. Does it matter which dedicated line I choose? |
Your experience matches mine in that with moving the HFT bullets to the optimal location the sound suddenly becomes focused and much more enjoyable. The FEQ does sound better plugged directly into the wall and not to the Power Plant 10 (at least the ground plane plug directly into the wall). I would try the sub woofer circuit first. My FEQ is midway between the speakers, 18 inches from the front wall and sits on the sub. Yes it works better with 3 MIG footers than 3 Herbie ISocup footers which sound better than nothing. Sounds good in 15 minutes and even better after being on for three days. Then think about fine tunning the two HFTs that are near the floor and midline- the front wall and rear wall locations.
I think you will be pleased with sound. |
David, Just received the FEQ. I placed it in the center on the floor behind my rack on top of 3 Mig's that I had and not being used.
First hour of listening, I am greatly impressed. So, you say it takes a few days to break in? I wonder why? |
