Uh, oh, looks like I’ve been called out by the Bloviator-in-Chief. Actually, I'm not demanding proof, I'm asking for evidence. Any evidence. Follow?
Synergestic Black Fuse vs Audio Magic BeesWax
Like to ask if any Audiogon Members compared the Synergistic Black Fuse Vs The Audio Magic BeesWax ( top of line). Let me know what differences in sound quality, what equipment was it in, and how does it compare between the two fuse. Current all my equipment has The Black fuses; I am just curious WTF Audio Magic is So Expensive! Is it worth a big jump with the Audio Magic??
122 responses Add your response
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There has never been an amplifier or anything else damaged by an audiophile fuse. When they blow prematurely they actually prevent any damage. So would all the paranoid schizophrenics please put a sock 🧦 in it. And thanks for mentioning wire directionality, another thing the paranoid schizophrenics are way behind the power curve on. This is all probably a simple case of circuit compulsion obsession and self admiration. Pass Labs has a policy. Well, la dee da! Who cares? |
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As I’ve oft noted amplifier manufacturers, for whatever reason, appear to be far behind the power curve. Gee, everyone and his brother uses aftermarket fuses. I bet Mr. Pass is behind the power curve for wire directionality and power cords, too. You’d have to be set in your ways not to at least explore the possibilities. But he’s probably a nice guy. Do amp designers dream of their own electrical circuits? 😳 |
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I concur with Goergehifi’s point regarding corroded fuses. Corroded wouldn’t be the right word, I think stressed through many turn on currents and more crystallisation is more the way to explain it, which will "harden" the fuse element, and cause it to blow one day when it can’t flex any more. This is why incandescent light globes are at their brightest just before their restive element blows one day, again always at "turn on". A slow-blo fatigue ageing right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg A fast-blo fatigue ageing left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Cheers George |
I have a couple of blue SR fuses that I believe have provided a cost effective improvement to my system. However, I concur with Goergehifi's point regarding corroded fuses. I experienced a great improvement to my system when I replaced the visibly corroded fuses in an Aragon 4004 MKII amp with a cheap set of fuses from Radioshack. The Hifituning fuses were the only fancy audio fuses available at the time and thought that they were awful when I replaced the Radioshack fuses. It's only a matter of time until our current audio fuses start to corrode as well. |
This is a good thread and here's my input on this, take it for what's its worth. About 5 months ago I took delivery of my Ultra Platinum modified McCormack DNA-1 to replace a B&K 200.2 which has and still does serve me well. Needless to say the DNA-1 is a respectable step above the 200.2, I was immediately taken in upon first listening. The DNA comes with standard fuses and I was told the amp responds well to upgraded fuses, I opted to have the amp built with stock fuses so I could add later for comparison. I let the amp run for a good 2 months or so and decided to try one of the Synergestic Blue fuses, I started with the mains fuse. Now I don't have a dedicated "go to" album or track for critical listening, but I do have a few very familiar albums I use, so somewhat dedicated I suppose. Peter Gabriel "So" album has some tracks that will let you hear any changes in your system, namely "Mercy Street" and " Don't Give Up". The entire album can be argued that some tracks are mastered for the MTV era which is understandable, but some tracks have many critical passages and nuances that can test your system, as well as strong midbass in some tracks. I left the lid off the amp after installing the fuse to perform an A&B test of the stock fuse. I did use the "So" album as my first test and listening to Gabriel's and Kate Bush's high vocals in "Don't Give Up", what was immediately apparent was the detail in the upper registry, of their vocals, especially as they taper off each lyric. I thought, this was placebo so I listened to the track 3 times, then changed the fuse back to the stock. Right away, the upper registry was just high pitched vocals, namely Peters, starting to give way to the limits of my tweeters or the rig in general. I listened a couple more times then changed back to the blue. Again, the vocals just had that last bit of warmth and tone to the highs. Gabriel's vocals retained the grit and slight warm tone all the way to the top and Bush's vocals were delicately soft and liquid throughout. With the stock fuse they were clear, the high notes started to blend together slightly, but missing that level of tonality. I went back and forth 3 times, results were the same. It really comes down to your system, some may not hear a change, could be what fuse you decide to replace first. I would personally always start with the first fuse inilne with the components input, I chose the amp and it's mains fuse. This doesn't stop at the vocals, snare drums, ride cymbals, bass guitar, seem to have that last bit of focus and detail and I will contribute that to a cleaner power delivery. Overall I'm impressed and didn't think a fuse would make an immediate, noticeable difference. However if you think about it, why have all this nice, high-quality copper wire or silver in some places, and feed this with a thin, piano-like wire joined by a cheap metal end cap? That's a lot of current for an amp to pull through a cheap thin wire, why not maintain the flow as efficiently as possible. I will surely purchase again, I agree the price is a bit more than a normal fuse, but it's a safe bet it's not a normal fuse. Not putting words in anyone's mouth, but just because it's a "fuse" does not mean it falls into the category of cheap, automotive-style fuses that are "just a fuse". IMO, it's another component in the chain that can surely be overlooked. |
Yes of course there is an improvement compare to standard fuse, and you should try also to use Progold to clean the fuse ends, and their fuse holder, once a year at least. I noticed a better sound after cleaning them. By the way I am using HiFi Tuning Fuse, with fuse chip, on each of them, today the chip is included in the fuse new models. |
shadorne . All you can do with these snake oiler’s is present links and facts, and EE laws, and try to protect the gullible from it, they can either take it in, or choose to ignore it because they don’t understand. Because they’ve spent >$100 on a 10mm piece of resistance wire, they’re naturally they’re going to have large expectation bias when it comes in the mail. That’s when you get totally unbelievable statements like this. I found with the SHD the noise floor dropped quite a bit, dynamics expanded, another layer of micro information, bass got tighter with even deeper extension. That was trying one in the AC line to our source which is cd.And even more unbelievable, ones that say they can hear audible differences in an AC mains fuse direction of insertion!!!! Cheers George |
@joecasey If what sounds best to you is audibly affected by a mere fuse then I wish you good luck finding the right fuse (one that matches all the wires and capacitors in your gear) and hopefully one that works long enough to be worth your effort (break in being in hundreds of hours and then the fuse aging problem with cycling - if you get lucky picking the right matching fuse then perhaps it might sound “best” for more than just a few days before needing a replacement or the wires or capacitors will need adjustment/replacement)! |
ShadorneSimple, what sounds best to me. In my case, comparing old to new system is similar to Yugo vs Mercedes. Why stop at fuses, if one can hear a difference between wires, capacitors, ... then it's flawed. Totally illogical! |
@geoffkait It is totally logical. There is nothing deceiving about distortion - no distortion at all means input and output are identical and that is the holy grail of high fidelity. Some distortion measurements specs may hide or ignore important aspects of distortion (odd harmonics, zero crossing distortion at low level) but that does not diminish the overal goal of ZERO distortion in a high fidelity setup. This means a high fidelity setup is not going to be audibly affected by a mere fuse - otherwise it is a real pos in terms of high fidelity! A designer/manufacturer can design primarily for an old 60’s tube sound with archaic technology and tune by ear to decide what flavour sounds the best or a designer can design primarily for high fidelity using latest technology and use measurements to prove it by testing the power supply robustness, channel separation, distortion, SNR etc. What sound is preferable? Well some prefer high fidelity (at the cost that you hear the recording as it was produced - warts and all) and some prefer euphonic glorious coloration that just presents everything in a way that sounds better than the original recording to them (at the expense of robustness, reliability, accuracy and some finicky equipment behaviours from older technology) |
shadorne It depends on your definition of high level - does it mean high fidelity (in which case a mere fuse should not affect the audio) or does high level mean an expensive boutique custom item that was built and tuned by ear to sound great but without an emphasis on low distortion and elimination of extraneous factors (like a mere fuse) affecting the sound quality. >>>>That’s not logical, Captain. We already know that distortion measurements can be deceiving. We know for example that many Tube amplifiers with say, 0.05% Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) sound MUCH BETTER than many Solid State amps with vanishingly low THD of say, 0.001%. AND some tube amps sound better than other tube amps that have lower THD. And so forth. So, the logical conclusion here is that - all things being equal - distortion is relatively meaningless. Good sound is definitely not DEFINED by very low distortion. As for me I’ll take good sound over low distortion any day. 😬 |
@joecasey Well your experience suggests that what you regard as high level components don’t appear to be all that reliable and robust. It depends on your definition of high level - does it mean high fidelity (in which case a mere fuse should not affect the audio) or does high level mean an expensive boutique custom item that was built and tuned by ear to sound great but without an emphasis on low distortion and elimination of extraneous factors (like a mere fuse) affecting the sound quality. I am sure everyone can agree that it is actually possible to design a very robust power supply that has more than enough stored energy (for transients) that slight differences between one fuse and another won’t affect the sound. Once you accept that this can be a design goal and is easily achievable (adds only cost but presents no major technical hurdles) then it sheds a new light on components that are finicky to the point that a fuse makes a big difference.... |
David, I do appreciate your comments regarding me, thanks. Joecasey’s comments above referring to the quality of components and their response to upgrade fuses mirrors mine. The higher quality audio components do in fact display a greater difference and noticeable improvement in the sound quality. David Pritchard above just reported his + findings with the Blue fuses in his new Pass Labs amplifier. I believe that this type of outcome has been the "overwhelming " rule rather than an exception. The power supplies in Coincident products are indeed excellent. As are the power supplies of the numerous brands used by many very happy upgrade fuse users who have posted on this forum. Pass Labs Audio Research VAC Atma-sphere Art Audio Concert Fidelity Absolare Shindo Vitus The list goes on. Would someone care to make the case that these established and esteemed audio products lack high quality parts and power supply and this makes them "susceptible" to upgrade fuses? This argument is absurd and is bereft of logical reasoning though some persist in repeating it to the point of boredom. Or is it simply expectation bias, really? This explanation would sufficiently account for similar results involving many individual listeners and also a wide spectrum of brands and components? Again it doesn’t pass the logic test in my opinion. There have been a few people who heard little or no benefit (this could be said for the any audio product) this is reasonable to me. A very large number of listeners have reported very favorable experiences. Charles |
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If it does then you imagined it or your component doesn’t even have a decent power supply. I'm aware of the controversy and positions vis a vis fuses, and I do not want to, nor mean to, inflame.... or generate the usual back and forth (like on that other thread). : ) @shadorne I am aware of @charles1dad 's system components and I submit that Israel Blume of Coincident is well aware of "decent power supplies' and utilizes decent, likely excellent, ones in his components. As Charles states in a previous post: "fuses have contributed to a very natural sound character." Are you saying he "imagined it?" Based on Charles' many excellent, informative and educational posts here on Audiogon he comes across as a Non-Hogwarts kind of guy! I'm willing to try fuses and am open to their non-impact or some-impact possibilities. @georgehifi provided some more specific and helpful information...since you have a fairly strong position on fuses not working (your exceptions noted) can you provide additional information on why I need to avoid trying them out? Thanks! |
ShadorneInteresting! My experience is 180 degrees different. I hear NO differences rolling fuses in mid to low level BUT hear improvements in high level components. Same goes for cables ... Began playing with audio fuses years years ago on Sonic Frontier pre / amp and 1st generation Benchmark DAC 1 and heard no differences. Improvements are easily audible in current components. |
Are we all to believe that we should swap out fuses every 6 months?If your one of these nutz that A/B things many times a day and doing so turn your equipment on and off each time, then yes you are a candidate to change your fuses every 6mts, because of the fatigue your putting them through as in the pics in my last post. I think you need to get a new hobby. A slow-blo fatigue ageing right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg A fast-blo fatigue ageing left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Cheers George |
I can't believe that the usual suspects are still hawking their tired and repetitive crap about inferior power supplies and aging fuses that if designed right, would never show signs of aging. Are we all to believe that we should swap out fuses every 6 months? If so, time to get a new hobby. All the worse, Nonoise |
I just finished comparing my new Pass Labs INT-60 integrated amplifier with the factory fuse and with a Synergistc Research Blue fuse. Both fuses now have 100 hours on them and so the amp has a total of 200 hours on it. The improvement with the Synergistic Research Blue fuse is significant. david_ten : I hope you will try a Blue fuse in your system. I think it is a worthwhile experiment to undertake. If you have any questions feel free to call me. 575-644-1462 David Pritchard |
That would vary, on how much current is drawn through the fuse at switch on (as this is the heaviest), and how many times a day it’s turned on an off. If they’re only $2 do them every 6mts or so. https://www.digikey.com.au/products/en/circuit-protection/fuses/139?k=fuses&k=&pkeyword=fuse... Cheers George |
There is only one reason a >$100 boutique fuse may sound better than a quality $2 fuse. That is because the >$100 boutique is replacing a $2 fuse that is old and tired seen too many switch on cycles, making it weak and also carbon’ed up as can be seen by these time deterioration pics of the same fuse. A slow-blo ageing right to left https://peakpinball.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/fuse-8312-640x426.jpg A fast-blo ageing left to right https://i.stack.imgur.com/0uqWX.jpg%20 Your better off spending $2 on an original new fuse, and save yourself >$98 as the ageing process will happen just as fast with the >$100 fuse. Cheers George |
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