Supratek Owners Thread

Just pulled the trigger on my first tube pre and decided to go with a Supratek.

I posted in the tube rolling thread but it looks like this has more activity so ai'll post here too. I got my Cabernet about a month ago. When I ordered I had Mick add a switch that allows me to use either 6sn7 or 12sn7 tubes. The vintage 6sn7 tubes have gotten into the stratosphere while the best 12sn7 tubes are just sky high in price...

It took some time for me to get a sound I really liked better than using a passive preamp. Initially the Cabernet really screwed up my system, it sounded terrible! Figured out my DAC was sending 4v via its balanced connection. Switched to RCA cables and got results more in line with what I was expecting. 

The general sound is bigger and lusher than with the passive. I'm not quite getting the detail but I think the tonal qualities make up for it. Plus the bass is amazing. 

So far I have cycled through a variety of tubes. Mick sent a pair of 12sx7 along with PSVane 6sn7. The 12sx7 are quite good and are a good benchmark to compare the other tubes. The "bad boy" Sylvania 12sn7 tubes seem to turn the vividness up and tightened up the bass. The round plate Tungsol tubes have lived up to their reputation as exquisite all rounders. They sound so... right. Can't put my finger on it but they sound different than the other but so satisfying. 

My most interesting tubes IMO are a pair of grey glass Sylvania 14n7 tubes. The 14n7 has the extra copper support rods like the super expensive metal based Sylvania 6sn7wgt. I have never heard of a sylvania grey glass 6sn7 before though. Anyway, these sound thicker, heavier. 

I could be happy with any of these really. They sound different but none of them sound bad. I'll eventually get around to trying the PSVane 6sn7, a variety of 7n7, and a few Sylvania 6sn7 tubes of various vintages. 

Geez. What a genius idea. Wish I'd thought of it.

Because of the high cost of the 6sn7 tube set, as stated,  I decided to go with a 6J5GT tube in the preamp Mick is building me. 

Ooh, ask him to do the 12v for that. 12j5 tubes go for a song! Hmm, wonder if you could also use 6c5 tubes. In any case it's always better to have more tubes on display lol. 

As far as 6J5GT the circa 1930's RCA are the way to go. 

Whats the benefit of doing the 12v?

Anybody else occasionally use 6J5's in those adapters that allow substitution in the 6SN7 location? I had a pair of the adapters built by someone in Ukraine or someplace like that (can't even remember where or how I was put in touch with him). 

There's a thread somewhere around here titled something like "in a surprising hollywood twist ending to the 6SN7 story, the 6J5 wins..." or something like that.

I spoke with Mick and he said his best line stage was built around the 6J5GT and the circuit he designed. 

It's called Grange Signature. It s a four month wait but looking forward to it.
Gloss black with chrome. 

If you go to his 2021 blog from his website you can read his thoughts. 

Funny, I was about to do a search on the Audiogon forum for the Supratek Chardonnay, and bam, saw this thread!

I’m currently auditioning preamps. My amp is a JE labs simple 2A3/45, powering Omega Compact Alnico Monitors. I have the Primaluna EVO 100 pre, which uses 12AX7 and 12AU7 tubes. Not that the EVO is not good, but I like the tube glow of the Schiit Freya Plus, which uses 6SN7 tubes, better. Also in house is the Conrad Johnson Classic 2 SE using a single 6922 tube. I may try an older CJ for more of the tube sound.

I have not read or searched this thread yet, but hope to learn about the Supratek preamps.

"Whats the benefit of doing the 12v?"

Just the cost really. The price difference between 6sn7 and 12sn7 can be dramatic especially considering that they are the same tubes other than the heater voltage. The data between 12j5 and 6j5 probably isn't as stark. I don't think Tungsol ever made round pate 6j5 tubes but Sylvania made their most sought after tubes in single triode versions. 

Oh, and I suppose I enjoy rescuing abandoned tubes lol. I get a kick out of using tubes that would otherwise languish. 

I'm a novice at best when it comes to tubes but I was under the impression that the 6J5 uses half the current/power as the 6sn7 hence why they last forever. 
In the Grange Signature Mick uses two 6J5 for each 6sn7.

Andy at Vintage Tube Service said the circa 1930 RCA 6J5GT are the ones to get.

The 6J5 pulls half the heater current (.3ma) of a SN7 (.6ma)..   BUT, you have 2 of them per channel vs 1 sn7 so the total heater current draw is the same.  This does not effect the longevity of the tube provided it is being run at or close to the 6.3V spec.    In regards to the circuit and how the tube is driven/operated (ie, B+/bias),  it will be very similar as to how Mick runs the SN7 based pre's.   All in all,  they are all run very conservatively.    You'll find that any NOS tube stock (generally speaking),  especially that from the 60's and before to have very long life in Mick's pre amps,.. Tubes just aren't made like they used to be.   Newer Chinese manf. stuff,  not so much.  They can die (and do) with very few hours on them (comparatively speaking).

jslateiv,

I appreciate you taking the time to explain that to me. It makes sense. 

Do you use a Supratek?

I do,..  Cortese LCR,  but am going to move to a Grange when Mick has time to make it.   Also have an older Chardonnay I picked up that I am currently refurbing to bring up to current spec/circuit.   It doesn't have a remote so will probably add that as well.  May keep, may sell once I'm done.  Not sure yet.   I handle most of the state side repairs for Mick to keep owners from having to ship all the way back to AU. My bench/services have been down the last 3 months due to a move but am back up and running now.    Generally speaking, his pre's are very solid and rarely need work.  He did have an issue recently with a bad batch of transformers that caused him a nightmare.  That has since been sorted out though.  I believe that there are a few users that posted here who unfortunately had some of those units (only about 6 in total,  a few made it to the US)..

@jslateiv
Can you speak to the question of how a circa ~2004 Chenin model would compare to a current-spec Cortese? I have a friend who listened to my Cortese LCR, wanted to order one for himself, then found out about the 4-month wait time. The he found a used Chenin and he’s going to go with that for at least a while...

Markus

Hey @markusthenaimnut    I dont believe that I have listened to Chenin specifically.   I have had a few of the older units,  Grange, Syrah and Chardonnay come through.   They all sound wonderful once within spec.   Without seeing the insides,  it's hard to know what was used in the build and or the circuit Mick used at the time.   Some of the older units had Electrolytics in the PS and there is a possibility that it could be close to time for a refresh there.  Any of these like this get replaced with good PP's that will last till the end of days.   Beyond that,  Mick's circuits are solid and I wouldn't expect any issue unless a CCS fet failed (if used) and even those are almost bomb proof.   Back to your question though,..    what I have found is that the older designs (generally speaking) compared to his latest stuff have a little heavier or thicker sound to them.  Not in a bad way but maybe just not quiet as resolving or having that 'nth degree of jump factor.  At this point its really getting down to system dependency and what works better with the associated gear.  I think anyone could live happy with any of the circuits including his older ones,..    The difference is more akin to spice selection when cooking..

Hey Supratek owners -

Please advise what your experience has been with tube failure in the phono stage of your preamp, in the 6H23/6922/E88C position. I’m especially interested in hearing from fellow Cortese owners. I’ve had two "much-earlier-than-expected" failures in one channel and wonder what other folks experience has been.

The first failure was the original, stock Russian 6H23. Just one out of the original pair.

Then I rolled in a lovely pair of tightly matched vintage Amperex JAN 7308s (super high-spec 6922/6DJ8s) into that position and they sounded lovely, until one of them failed. Now I’m reluctant to roll "sort of expensive" tubes in there and have reverted back to the ultra-inexpensive Russian 6H1Ps, which seem to be virtually indestructible. They don’t sound as fully fleshed out as the vintage Amperex tubes, but they sound pretty good.

So, anybody else experienced early tube mortality in that position?

And, out of interest, what tubes have you ended up with in there?

Markus

Hey rosco88, my Jay's audio CDT2-MK3 remote works on my Cabernet DHT/6SN7. I hope that helps.

@markusthenaimnut  in regards to your ques. above.  I've been running mine (LCR) for the last 2 years without issue.   The pre will stay on for 8-10 hrs at a time on a regular basis.   No small tube failure yet.    I have found that I prefer the 6n6p in the phono though.  Have used 7308 and the supplied 6h23.    In an earlier conversation with Mick he did mention to me that he had started to see a higher failure rate than expected with the 6h23's he was supplying for a while and recommended switching them out although I'm having no issue with mine yet at the moment,..  It's possible that the one 7308 you put in was already on the fence.   Just about imposible to tell with tubes.   I will say that the heater voltages are always spot on as they are regulated and the circuit does not put alot of stress (V/ma) on that tube (any of them for that matter).   May be nothing more than a bit of bad tube luck.  I do highly recommend trying some 6n6p if you haven't.  A touch less gain but that's rarely a problem in a Supra..  If you feel like somethings out of whack or are overly concerned I'd be happy to take a look for you and make sure everything is in spec.

Anyone care to comment on the new Grange preamp? I don't recall seeing any comments about the sound.

@luisma   probably isn't but only 1 maybe 2 of the new Grange pre's with their owners yet.   I believe he only shipped the 1st one within the last month.     There's alot going on in that pre and it takes Mick a long time to complete the build.   Hopefully  an owner will post here with impressions but I'm pretty sure I already know how it'll go,.. lol

I should be getting my Grange Signature by New Year. Mick said it was his favorite circuit design. 

I ordered Gloss black with Chrome. Looking forward to it.

Hello there.
I believe that I am the first owner of the new Grange LCR phono and DHT line stage preamp. I received it on Oct 12 / 21, after six months waiting for it as a reward. I have been playing it few hours every nights since I received it, no noise, no hiss, no hum. I am extremely pleased with the sound quality from this preamp phono and line stage, the sound of this preamp is so liquid and natural that just can not be described.

Which flavor do you have? DHT dual active? You using mainly a TT with it or digital too?

I bought a Grange DHT line stage built into a Cabernet chassis (basically the Grange without a Phono) in September '21. It has the circuit, transformers and capacitors same as Grange. Very happy with the performance. My previous pre was a MINGDA MC300-PRE

I am bi amp my Grange preamp, 6SN7 tubes drive my woofers, 300B drive the midranges and tweeters. I play both the vinyl and digital, the line stage is as good as the phono.

I ordered a Cabernet 6SN7 a couple of weeks ago. Expecting a three-month wait. Came here to learn more about this preamp. Looking forward to receiving it.  

What system will you put it into ?

Only thing to be mindful of is the high gain.

it is a beautiful pre amp and sounds sublime.

Only minor gripe I have is the terrible remote that in no way

mirror the design of the pre, a wooden remote with volume buttons

would be great.

@gryphongryph , 

From what I have read in the past somewhere... Those are generic remotes, you can order better ones on amazon. Though I cannot tell you which one...

Unfortunate I have yet to find one I like, mostly cheap Chinese remotes on the market!

Hi All,

I am one of the very satisfied owners of the new Grange Signature preamp from Mick.  I received mine on September 16th after approximately a 6 month wait.  I was originally going to go with the Cortese LCR but after Mick told me the Grange was coming back and the Signature was the best preamp he'd ever designed, I put my deposit down despite the six month wait he quoted.  That was at the end of February and he told me at that time, I was the sixth order placed for a Signature.

Mick was pretty accurate with his delivery estimate as it did take just over six months to receive it but the wait was worth it.  I was looking for a full function preamp with an outstanding phono section to replace my Coincident Statement Phono preamp (in itself a very good phono preamp), and was considering the usual suspects of VAC and VTL on the used market.  But after reading the many glowing reviews of the Suprateks, I decided to buy new instead. 

My decision was rewarded as the Signature's phono section with the LCR circuit and Lundahl inductors was a major improvement over the CSPP.  I was actually shocked how good it was and really couldn't imagine how much better a phono stage could get without spending over $20K. Tremendous imaging and detail that was never revealed with the Coincident.  It is a great match for my Transfiguration Proteus LOMC and has no problem driving my notoriously low input impedance Pass XA100.5's with the adjustable gain, something the Coincident struggled with.

Overall, I couldn't be happier with the purchase and would highly recommend the Grange Signature as one the the best preamps on the market with a world class phono section.  For the price, I don't think it can be beat.  

 

Well, I finally did it, I knew I would. I can switch between 6sn7 and 12sn7 on my Cabernet and I zapped some 6v tubes with 12v. Just wish it wasn’t my round plate Ken Rad 6f8g tubes! I left them on for several minutes like that before realizing what I had done. They are playing OK now but I assume I have taken years off of their life. SOB. Incidentally, what do you think would happen if I did the opposite? I’m assuming nothing but I don’t want to experiment  

 

What would actually happen if I put a tube that is pin compatible with the 6sn7 but with very different characteristics into my Cabernet? Something like a 6sl7 or a 2c50. I only worry about damaging the preamp, don’t want to burn anything up. 

@hawkrising said:

I ordered a Cabernet 6SN7 a couple of weeks ago. Expecting a three-month wait. Came here to learn more about this preamp. Looking forward to receiving it.  

I have come to love mine. I will say my initial impression was an overwhelmingly negative one. My DAC pushes out 4v over the balanced connection and that apparently overloads the input to the Cabernet. It made a terrible, compressed sound. Since that was my initial impression it really soured me on the device. I eventually figured that out and switched over to a single ended input which has the regular 2v output and things have been fine. 

The other thing I hated was that, compared to the passive section on my Ferya+, I could not get decent bass with the Cabernet in my system. No matter what tubes I tried the bass was just disappointing. running El38 tubes in my amp were especially impressive with the passive amp and just sounded lifeless with the Cabernet in the system. I'm not usually a big believer in burn in but it is the only explanation I can think of for the turnaround I heard. I now get the big, lush sound I was looking for along with solid bass. 

Although curiously I still can't get decent sound using the EL38 output tubes in my amp if I use the Cabernet. The clarity and frequency range I get from them with the passive is impressive. It all seems to go away when I use the Cabernet. Luckily I can use a wide variety of output tubes with my amp so I have several other combos that sound amazing. Makes me worry though if and when I get a more conventional amp that can only use a single kind of output tube. Anybody have any idea why the Cabernet might have such a bad impact with a specific amp output tube?

Hmmm….maybe the maker would have an idea. Why not contact Supratek?

Looking for others’ thoughts. I’m now in a position to upgrade from the Chardonnay, so a couple of days ago I asked Mick what would an "all stops out" single 6SN7 Cabernet look like. He responded that "all out" would be the Grange Signature circuit, but would need the 6J5 instead. It seems he could do it all in the Chardonnay’s main case, since the two extra power supply tubes showing in the the Cabernet photo are 6L6’s moved over for the DHT Cabernet, not the 6SN7 one.

I have some reading to do about the 6J5 (there's a long head-fi thread). My inclination: After going through lots of NOS 6SN7’s and 6F8G’s and equivalents, and lots of time and $$$, I find the Treasure Globe from Rachel of Premium Vacuum Tubes in Canada (from China) easily the best of the bunch for my tastes and hate to give them up, afraid I wouldn’t find anything as good among the 6J5’s. Another possibility that I tossed out to Mick is a Grange Signature w/o the phono section, but don’t know what tubes are involved in that beyond the 6J5, assuming he’d even do that.

Thoughts? Thanks,

If you already have 6sn7 and equivalents you like I would just go with that. If you get curious about 6j5 tubes you can always use an adapter to go from 1 6sn7 to 2 6j5. 

 

If you are someone that likes experimenting with tubes you might want to get your preamp switchable between 6v and 12v. It costs extra but it has allowed me to try out some tubes that I couldn’t before. The 12sx7 are a stand out and I was actually able to buy several pairs of TS round plate 12sn7 tubes for a reasonable price. 

So either I am really stupid or the Cabernet has one of the most epic transformations with burn in ever. I have complained multiple times about how my Cabernet preamp couldn’t handle the 4v output of my DAC via its balanced inputs. Well, I tried it again all these months later on a whim and its fine.

 

All I can figure is that I was on the wrong input when I did my initial test. I have noticed that there is quite a bit of bleed between inputs. If you put as signal in on one input you can hear it if you select an other input. That obviously isn’t a big deal because you won’t be playing multiple inputs at the same time. But when I first hooked the Cabernet into my system I thought it was really quiet and very distorted. Then I tried a different input and it got MUCH louder. That’s how I knew I had been on the wrong input. The signal was still really compressed and distorted though. 

Did I really not try another input originally? I find that hard to believe but it is the most likely explanation. So yeah, the Cabernet is fine with higher input levels on the balanced connection.

My 6 month evaluation of the Cabernet is that I love it. Took me a while to sort things out but now my old preamp sounds downright harsh. I have found that tube selection makes a huge difference. I’ve also found that when I change tubes in the Cabernet I have to change tubes downstream too.

 

For example, the TS round plate 12sn7 sounds amazing as long as I use a tall 7n7 input tube in my amp (Inspire KT88 Firebottle) and use 6v6 outputs. If I just pop some 807 tubes into the amp it doesn’t sound very good until I change the input tube. If I use Raytheon 6f8g tubes in the Cabernet I can’t get sound I really like unless I put in e3375 tubes in the output. 12sx7 tubes in the Cabernet I really like an RCA 6sn7 in the input tube of the amp and 6ar6 tubes in the output. And on and on. Once I dial in the system it sounds amazing but every change requires changes elsewhere to get sound I like.

 

The switch that allows me to use both 6v and 12v tubes cost an extra $500. That gave me pause but I think it was worth it in the end. I have been able to get several pairs of TS round plate 12sn7 at reasonable prices. That probably evened out the price right there. On top of that I was able to get the so-called “bad boy”  Sylvania tubes with little trouble. I can also use tubes that aren’t available as 6sn7 like the 12sx7 and the 14n7. The latter have extra support rods as compared tp the 7n7 and 6sn7. If you already have a good collection of 6sn7 tubes maybe the 12v switch won’t make sense for you but if you are starting out I recommend it. 

Thanks. Not sure I'll go for the mod when I go up to the Cabernet, but I'll have to discuss that with Mick. Because I use powered speakers, the Chardonnay is downstream from a Lampi dac for me, and with the Treasure Globes (Grant Fidelity), I had to change from a USAF 596 to the Sophia Aqua 274B to get the  bit of warmth I wanted. I don't see changing tubes for the Cabernet to start with. Hope it stays that way because after all those older tubes I really like this combo.

Close to adding a Supratek Chardonnay to my system. I'm confused about a few things.

1. The Supratek sponsored ad on Audiogon, shows a knob on the top panel. The Supratek website shows the more expensive wood & chrome finish with no knob? Is there some Sonic difference between the two units or is it all cosmetics?

2. I'm new to buying on Audiogon. I see a place to make offer, but no where to actually buy the Chardonnay. 

3. Is there truly a chance of getting a Chardonnay in a months time? 

4. Will this work well with a VTL ST150 tube amp?

Thanks,

aldnorab

@aldnorab

 

Your best bet for ordering a Chardonnay is to contact Mick directly through the e-mail address listed on the website. Due to the time difference he will get back to you within 24 hrs. and you can discuss your purchase directly. I just was in contact today about buying a Cabernet to upgrade from my Chardonnay.

The Chardonnay has two knobs and two switches on top of the control unit. Front right is a knob for balance and rear right is for gain adjustment. The two switches in the rear center are for mute and turning the gain adjustment on and off.

Per my discussion with him today the lead time is 3-4 months due to Covid supply chain issues. Again contact him directly for concrete answers to any questions you have.

I have used the Chardonnay with six different amps including two tube amps and it doesn't care what kind of amp is on the other end.  Just adjust the gain on the preamp to match the needs of the amps

Thanks @jackd for the information. I'm borrowing a preamp, need to see if 4 months is OK. 

Thanks again,

aldnorab

 

Have a used Syrah with phono if you are in need.

Thanks @johnk . I'll keep it in mind. Which Supratek did you replace it with?

My friend is OK with the 4 month loan. Have to decide if I want to wait so long for something that hasn't been auditioned. Leaning towards Chardonnay, but maybe a Cabernet makes more sense for such a wait. Want to be careful to avoid thin & analytical sound. The borrowed Sound Valves 101i is about a perfect match tonally for my system. There could be more color and I can't live without a remote.

Thanks,

Aldnorab

@aldnorab

Supratek preamps are certainly not thin or analytical and you can make minor adjustments to then tone by changing the two 6SN7 tubes and upgrading the supplied rectifier tube depending on what he is using these days. The Cabernet will get you a better power supply unit and a general parts upgrade but not a real difference in overall tone. I am completely happy with my Chardonnay but since I was going to buy a second Supratek to compare against the Don Sachs at a second house I decided to go up the chain.

@aldnorab3 I got a Chardonnay a couple of years ago, wanting to dip my toes in first, but my hunch is you’d not be unhappy moving up right off, if you can handle it.. I’m now going to a 6SN7 Cabernet and glad to hear someone say what I’ve been hoping, that the overall tone will be the same. Since I’m not interested in messing with more tubes or wanting a dual option, I’ll be able to stick with what I’ve come to like. I would add that the two power tubes on the back of the main unit are also worth playing with. Replacing the Sovteks with RCA 6L6GC’s from the early 1960’s made a noticeable improvement.

@highstream 

 

Gene, how much longer have you got to wait yet.  Just pulled the trigger so I've got a while to go but will just use the Sachs in that system in the meantime. 

Hopefully, very soon. I skipped trying to Sachs back when was because unlike Mick, Don didn't offer balanced out and wanted to charge me a lot extra for caps to handle the impedance of my ATC speakers. 

I also have D Sachs, Dehavilland, Cary, Schiit, and VTL on my preamp list. Dehavilland closed shop and the remote version rarely comes up for sale. VTL would match my amp, but isn't 6sn7 based. The Cary SLP98 may be too euphonic. I use lots of different amps which causes problems picking "the" correct output capicitors for the D Sachs. The Schiit uses lots of solid state parts and that is what rendered my Audible Illusions M3A/B preamp unrepairable. 

I watched 3 D Sachs preamps sell in a week on another forum. Four months from now I may regret not grabbing one. Downside is they cost as much as a Chardonnay, and have no warranty. Think the Supratek is a better fit for me. Also like that Mick designs the whole preamp, and not just augmenting someone elses circuit boards. 

 

Thanks,

aldnorab

 

wanted to charge me a lot extra for caps to handle the impedance of my ATC speakers. 

sorry, I might might be misunderstanding this totally, but are you implying that there is a connection between the output of your preamp and your speakers?