Supratek Owners Thread

"Sounds like the input switch was in the wrong position of faint sound was coming through."

This is exactly what I was thinking. 

Note: be patient as you test the various input pairs and the selector switch. It can be a little confusing - at least it was for me. For instance, viewed from the front, my LCR phono stage is at the 10 o'clock setting, even though the input is the furthest one to the left (looking from the back). And so on.

What fuse did you choose? And how did it impact the sound?

Frankly,  I have trouble imagining that a change in a fuse will improve the sound,  but there are many posts on this site in which it is so.  I am not trying to be argumentative, just trying wrap my head around it.  Nice to see another Supratek owner say that they've tried it,  hence my question...

One more comment - I'm using the stock tube set, none of which are considered boutique. And the Cortese Gen. 3 sounds absolutely amazing.

This preamp has taught me that Quad ESL63s can do bass quite well. For those who claim that they don't, I simply say you need a better preamp!

Jayctoy - 
The phono preamp is very, very good. As noted above, I am using a Dynavector 17D3 cartridge on a Linn Ittok arm. I have previously owned (and enjoyed) the Dynavector 10x5 mkII, which is a very nice cartridge, and, many years ago, a Sumiko Blue Point special. 

In terms of other phono stages, I have used internal phono stages in the following order - 
Eico ST70 integrated
Luxman 1055 receiver
Naim 72 with MM and MC phono boards
Main 82 with MM and MC phono boards
Linn Linto

I acknowledge that, of all these, only the Linn Linto would be worth talking about. The Linn is a well-regarded phono preamp, but by no means would it be considered reference quality. I've never had the chance to hear listen to a reference quality phono stage. Over the many years I've "been an audiophile" I've mostly concentrated on buying and listening to music. Mostly records. I've had little interest in upgrading. I find auditioning equipment to be stressful and no fun. 

I chose the Cortese with LCR because A) the vast majority of the comments about Suprateks on the internet are overwhelmingly positive. No, they are more than positive - they are the comments of very happy people who are delighted with their purchase. B) After reading Mick's blog posts about the evolution of the design of the Cortese and development of the LCR phono stage it sounded like what I was looking for. I wanted to treat myself (I just retired from a near 40 year professional career) to a "final" preamp, with a phono stage. And because I have many thousands of records, I went ahead a pulled the trigger.

I recognize my ability to compare this phono stage to others is very limited. But here is what I notice when listening to my records now;
1. New sonic details emerge which greatly contribute to my enjoyment and and understanding of the recording. Tunes which were previously boring often have become much more interesting, because I can hear how the musicians are - or are not - playing together. These tiny details (an in-drawn breath, an extra bit of force between a flatpick and a guitar string, a more heavily plucked bass guitar string, the atmosphere of the venue within which the recording took place) are delightful. The downside is that, if a producer has been careless in a production choice (like heavily boosted bass on a hip-hop track) I also hear that.
2. Tone; instrumental timbres are weightier and richer. More fully fleshed out, more "rounded".
3. The music is not fatiguing. In fact, this extends to the Cortese overall - this preamp has transformed my soundsystem and I want to spend much more time with it. Listening sessions have become much more treasured and engaging.

As I noted above, I don't really enjoy shopping for hi-fi equipment. I find it stressful and wearing. I don't want to take a handful of albums around to all the hi-fi stores and listen to various phono stages, over unfamiliar speakers, cartridges, preamps and so forth. I want the journey to be over, so I can get back to listening to music. And relaxing, and exploring new musical horizons. I feel blessed that that is where I've ended up.

One other comment; almost anyone shopping for a new component is going to have to gather information from the written word on the internet. I say this because there are simply too many excellent options out there these days. It is logistically difficult and time consuming to go around and hear everything in person. We need information to be able to narrow it down to a manageable number of options, a short-list. 

I love the fact that the Supratek has point to point wiring and a lifetime guarantee. And that the standard tube-set can be expected to last 10,000 to 20,000 hours.

Hope this helps. 

I do not know. Will ask Mick next time I email him on another topic.

 hey audio123,
Which other 6SN7s  did you try? And (sorry), please help me know exactly which Shunguangs you are loving,  because they seem to have a bunch of different ones,  all slightly different.
Thanks

Jtcf,
Which other DACs did you audition?

I'm curious about the shuguang western electric 6SN7s because I'm not finding them anywhere.  I do see northern electric 6SN7s,  but not western electric....

Charliee,
What tubes have you rolled? What have you found to make the biggest difference? What is your favorite configuration?
In all my emails with Mick he's basically expressed the idea that tube rolling is unnecessary for his preamps.

Hi audio123,
What other 6SN7s did you try? Those WE6SN7s look very cool. 

 any one hear anything about resurrection of the "preamp deal of the century" thread?

@highstream @hicham 
Here's what I think Joseph means regarding the "handpicked tubes" - the Supratek sounds incredible with the stock tubes. And Mick has carefully auditioned all the usual suspects to identify high-value, solid-performing, reliable tubes that he can purchase in quantity. That's the way I've felt about my Cortese, though I have done some tube rolling.

I was very intrigued to read the comments on tube-rolling earlier in this thread and, based on that input I'll probably track down some Melz 1578s and a pair of the Shuguang WE6SN7 plus tubes, just for fun. At present I'm listening to a gorgeous pair of CBS 5962s. They sound wonderful.

All the best,
Markus

Guys - couple questions about the Chinese tubes.I see Grant Fidelity is offering (at a very high price) the Psvane CV-181 TII tubes. Also, for a much lower price, what they are calling the WE6SN7s.
On ebay I see the CV-181 tubes & various versions of the WE6SN7 tubes. Some look quite different from the ones offered by GF, but at lower prices.Also, GF wants $$ to offer warranty.So, which way to go? CV-181TII or WE6SN7? Through GF or one of the ebay sellers? Which of the ebay sellers have you used that is trustworthy?
Dentdog, where did you pick up your Psvane tubes? GF? or on ebay?

dentdog -
Are you saying you talked to Mick about the Psvane T11s? Please understand I'm not trying to be obtuse, I just want to understand. Whenever I've traded emails about tube-rolling with Mick he basically advised me to spend my money elsewhere. Like a new DAC. If he's said that the Psvane T11s are the best, I'd like to know it.I've been trying to get a handle on the Shuguang & Psvane tubes. Many folks rave about them sounding better than virtually all the famous NOS tubes. However, I've also run across quite a few posts where people state that they failed much earlier than expected.It also appears that the Chinese tube manufacturers have gone crazy, creating multiple flavors of 6SN7 tubes. My recent searches have turned up:the above mentioned Psvane C-181-T11 Mk IIs - grey internal coating.
harder to find are the previous C-181Zs which some found better than the first gen C-181 T11s, but they are out there. Black internal coating.
The so-called Western Electric "421" repro WE6SN7 (and these can be found in various sizes on ebay)Grant Fidelity special limited edition globe version of 6SN7SECossor version of globular 6SN7, with black internal coating.Also a new "British" version of 6SN7I could continue, but it would be tedious.I'm very interested to hear from those who have used any of these tubes for an extended period and how they are holding up.
Also, there are posts dating from 2014 that indicated that "Grant" of Grant Fidelity was seriously ill. If he's out of the picture, who's running the show at GF and Psvane?I know I'm rambling a bit, but also, which ebay dealers are trustworthy? I read tonight a post where someone paid a lot for (I think it was) a Psvane 845. It failed very quickly. When he informed the dealer, the chinese dealer stopped responding to his emails.If GF is sorting out all the highest spec tubes, what's happening to all those that don't make the grade? My guess is that they go on ebay...

Thanks, highstream. Now if we can only get some responses about all these infinite varieties of new production 6SN7 tubes maybe we'll get somewhere.

Thanks Dentdog.

One comment is that it appears that the marketing department of various Chinese tube manufacturers have become very good at developing variations that reference well-regarded 6SN7 varieties of the past. There are so many out there now!

I'm interested in learning about the relative longevity of the new production tubes. Anybody having problems with the Psvanes, or Black Treasure tubes or...any of them?

mr_slate -

Yah, I think we all get the same feeling of satisfaction with our gear from Mick. For me, simply speaking, it's virtually life changing. Music just sounds so GOOD. Addicting. It draws me in so deep. And with Spotify broadening my horizons and exposing me to artists I haven't heard before I keep falling in love with the music all over again. And again.
You used the words Glorious, Huge sound stage, across the front wall depth, Rightness and Weight.
Yeah. Yeah! It has raised the bar for me. My new standard for how a system should sound is simply that it should sound IN-CRED-IBLE. If the music doesn't blow your mind (speaking to the notional beginner) then your system isn't at the *right* level yet. Although I DO realize that for all of us, it's a journey.
I recently got a new dac, and now I find myself listening more and more and more and more and streaming and playing cd's and vinyl and, and...
Sorry. Got carried away a bit. Just 'cause I'm sittin' here listening and it's sounding SO GOOD.

Cool story. 

I was satisfied with the packaging of my Cortese. Mick ships it with the tubes in the sockets and one tube was tilted by the styrofoam packaging insert but the pins straightened right out when I reinserted it. Mick thought it might have been opened by customs and the tipped tube the result of their looking in the box.
The tube sockets are very solid and are somewhat grippy when swapping tubes. However, Mick says in the owners manual that constant tube rolling can gradually cause tube sockets to wear. I use socket savers in my preamp.

I know, right?

Mick’s preamps just sound like music. Everything else, all the other distractions of "what about this" or "maybe a little more of this" or... whatever. They just let the beauty of the music flow through. So all you’re left with is beauty.

I love my Cortese and can't imagine my system without it.

I've made several recent changes to my system:
1 - picked up a used Audio Electronic Supply (AES) (Cary) SE-1 300b power amp. Hooked up to my 93dB sensitive JBL 4430s it sounds awesome. I've always been curious about the 300b bandwagon / sound and now I understand what all the fuss is about.
2 - picked up a new interconnect between my preamp and Quad 909 power amp. It is made using Gotham GAC 4/1 or 1/4 shielded wire or whatever (I hate these complicated names and don't want to take time to research back to Amazon, where I bought them). It is nicely burned in now and sounding very balanced. 
3 - the new interconnect has allowed me to insert my Morrow Audio SP4 speaker wires. Nice change.
4 - Cambridge Audio CXC transport feeding my MHDT Orchid DAC. 
5 - With the Garrard 401 I put together this summer I incorporated a VTAF (see Pete Riggle audio engineering for more on this). I'm now convinced that most people who review cartridges or criticize cartridges are... Well, let me say that correct VTA etc makes all the difference in the world. And unless that's dialed in - which takes a lot of time - then you're just not really hearing whatever cartridge accurately.

 eager to hear your report. 

Hey, fellow Supratek owners. Got a request for you, and I think it’s relevant for those who might be considering Supratek. Here’s the ask: Please share what other preamps you owned or considered when choosing Supratek.
My only personal comparison was a Naim NAC 82 with hicap powersupply. The Supratek taught me the meaning of the phrase "not even in the same league". In many decades past I'd heard a Covergent Audio Technologies preamp (it was pretty good) and an Emmanual Go First Sound (It was awesome). When I chose Supratek I considered First Sound and the Don Sachs. I wasn't aware of numerous other boutique builders at the time. I wasn't crazy about the looks of the Supratek, but  have grown to love it and now think that exposed tubes are just about the coolest thing to look at in my music room.
A couple of practical features I really appreciated on the Supratek were the large number of inputs and, it turns out, the ability to connect up to three different power amps. Never would have thought I'd need that, but I'm now running a solid state from one output for my quads and a 300B from another output for my 93dB efficient JBLs. Turns out this is a capability I use all the time.
I’m not asking you to go into a detailed comparison (though that would be cool if you wanted to). I’m just requesting you to say what you upgraded from or auditioned against or whatever. BTW, this is not intended as an opportunity to "slam" anybody else’s equipment. Just a place to try to collect and document people’s experience.

I had a hum and found that fussing with the way my cables were routed resolved it. 

@Alpha_lam 

I find it interesting that you have one post here on Audiogon, and it's a negative one. Not trying to pick a fight. Just find it interesting.

Also, I note that you bought your Supratek used. How can you be sure that the issues you found were due to the way the equipment was built originally? Might the previous owner modified it or had it worked on by a someone who didn't know what they were doing? Isn't that possible? 

The purpose of *this* post is simply to reinforce my satisfaction with my Supratek Cortese, which I have now owned for about two years. It sounds superb and I doubt that I will ever replace it. I'm *not* saying there aren't better alternatives out there. I simply don't think I could afford them. 

Best regards,
Markus

I have resolved my hum issue by re-routing the umbilical between the power supply and preamp, along with power cords to other equipment and other signal wires. I didn't take a scientific approach to figure out what was causing what. I just fiddled with it until the hum stopped, then "secured" the position of various bits to keep things positioned so the hum was gone.

Hope your efforts are successful.

@couger4u please keep us up to date on your situation. It's curious.

Geez. What a genius idea. Wish I'd thought of it.

Anybody else occasionally use 6J5's in those adapters that allow substitution in the 6SN7 location? I had a pair of the adapters built by someone in Ukraine or someplace like that (can't even remember where or how I was put in touch with him). 

There's a thread somewhere around here titled something like "in a surprising hollywood twist ending to the 6SN7 story, the 6J5 wins..." or something like that.

@jslateiv
Can you speak to the question of how a circa ~2004 Chenin model would compare to a current-spec Cortese? I have a friend who listened to my Cortese LCR, wanted to order one for himself, then found out about the 4-month wait time. The he found a used Chenin and he’s going to go with that for at least a while...

Markus

Hey Supratek owners -

Please advise what your experience has been with tube failure in the phono stage of your preamp, in the 6H23/6922/E88C position. I’m especially interested in hearing from fellow Cortese owners. I’ve had two "much-earlier-than-expected" failures in one channel and wonder what other folks experience has been.

The first failure was the original, stock Russian 6H23. Just one out of the original pair.

Then I rolled in a lovely pair of tightly matched vintage Amperex JAN 7308s (super high-spec 6922/6DJ8s) into that position and they sounded lovely, until one of them failed. Now I’m reluctant to roll "sort of expensive" tubes in there and have reverted back to the ultra-inexpensive Russian 6H1Ps, which seem to be virtually indestructible. They don’t sound as fully fleshed out as the vintage Amperex tubes, but they sound pretty good.

So, anybody else experienced early tube mortality in that position?

And, out of interest, what tubes have you ended up with in there?

Markus

@skypop the chassis for the power supply is the same size as the preamp itself, so about 13.5 inches by 13.5 inches. Roughly.

In terms of height, with the rectifier I'm using (large shouldered tube), the power supply is about 10 inches tall. I have about three inches of clearance between the top of the 5U4 and the shelf above it.

Yes. Trying different sources. CD player. DAC. phono. Cassette. All of them. Get a cassette playing, a CD playing, stream something through your DAC. All at the same time. Keep the volume at 9 o'clock while you switch between the sources. Read the owners manual. Tweak the gain control. Try the switches. I concur it's *probably* something simple. 

Please keep us informed. We're all on your side.

Have you talked to Mick about this? What does he say?

@firstgrowth can you please explain a little bit about what you mean by you "rewired everything"? It sounds like you had to rebuild the preamp. I'm guessing that what you meant was that you simply reconnected everything in your system and re-seated the tubes. And sorted out the switch. Is this correct?

Perfect. Thanks.

I don't have a Supratek power amp. If I needed a lot of power and wanted to stay with tubes I'd seek out something along the lines of an @atmasphere or a @donsachs Kootenai.  If I didn't need a lot of power because I had highly efficient speakers (ala Klipsch or big Altecs) I'd seek out an Alan Eaton 45 stereo or monoblock setup.

I guess I will start with the obvious question. Did you try swapping the position of the tubes? If so, does the fault follow the tube? Just wondering if one might be bad. Start with the 300Bs, then make sure all the others are properly seated. Plus the umbilical, then the interconnects. If none of that works then talk to Mick about having his Tech in the US work on it.

Regarding the use of adapters - In the owners manual Mick cautions against "excessive" tube rolling, because it can cause the sockets to eventually lose some of their grip.

Hence I use socket savers.

Somehow your post about upgrading your order to the Signature Grange... well, it really got me thinking. That might be a really nice next step from my Cortese LCR.

One other thing that has really improved the sound I'm getting from my Cortese are some Cardas cables. I'm using old, but new-to-me Cardas Neutral Reference wires from DAC to preamp and from preamp to power amps. Also Cardas NR speaker wires. They're, like, 20 years old, but they are a huge upgrade for my system. Previously I just hadn't paid much attention to interconnects or speaker wires.