nonoise
Great pic! Sweet looking CD transport.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Suggest Transports that can be Demo'd at home
I'm quite happy with my system (Silverline 17.5 monitors/Wells Majestic integrated/Aqua La Voce II/Jolida JD100 (as transport) but am wondering whether I ought to purchase another transport before they're no longer available.
$3000 would be my limit, budget-wise and longevity is a big concern. Used is OK, as long as unit is M.
I have two caveats which make this tough-- 1) as a rule, I don't purchase any gear I can't first demo at home and 2)
I'd ideally prefer something made in N. America. Of these two qualifiers, the second is negotiable, but not the first.
I could demo a Bryston BCD-3 from Audio Advisor, but I'm not sure it makes sense to pay for a unit that includes a DAC I won't use. Also, I came across a comment in the Forums that the Bryston has fatiguing highs-- a flaw I particularly abhor. And, it's considerable over my budget.
The Moon Neo 260D is not, as far as I can tell. possible to audition at home and I read on one of the AGon transport discussion threads that the drawer is flimsy.
The Jay's Audio products look to be very good but I didn't see anything on their site about a trial period.
A used PS Audio is a possibility, I guess, although I read that they used Oppo transports, which are no longer being made, so that's a concern from the longevity stand-point.
Any other units I should be aware of ??????????????
Thanks.
$3000 would be my limit, budget-wise and longevity is a big concern. Used is OK, as long as unit is M.
I have two caveats which make this tough-- 1) as a rule, I don't purchase any gear I can't first demo at home and 2)
I'd ideally prefer something made in N. America. Of these two qualifiers, the second is negotiable, but not the first.
I could demo a Bryston BCD-3 from Audio Advisor, but I'm not sure it makes sense to pay for a unit that includes a DAC I won't use. Also, I came across a comment in the Forums that the Bryston has fatiguing highs-- a flaw I particularly abhor. And, it's considerable over my budget.
The Moon Neo 260D is not, as far as I can tell. possible to audition at home and I read on one of the AGon transport discussion threads that the drawer is flimsy.
The Jay's Audio products look to be very good but I didn't see anything on their site about a trial period.
A used PS Audio is a possibility, I guess, although I read that they used Oppo transports, which are no longer being made, so that's a concern from the longevity stand-point.
Any other units I should be aware of ??????????????
Thanks.
64 responses Add your response
@stuartk , too bad $3K is your upper limit as I see you already have the Aqua as a transport and have access to their line. They've just come out with the La Diva CD transport and it uses the same drive mechanism as the Pro-Ject Box CDT (the Pro-8S based on the Blue Tiger optical drive). It goes for over $8K and if cost were no object, I'd get that, hands down.
All the best, Nonoise |
Wow-- this is an old thread -- I never imagined it would still be drawing suggestions. I guess I should've provided an update a long time ago! here goes... I eventually located a shop in Denver that was willing to ship me a Moon 260DT with a return policy and no restocking fee and I ended up keeping it. I had a problem early on with it not reading every CD and had to send it back to Quebec but SimAudio repaired it promptly and I haven't had any other issues. It strikes me as very neutral sounding and seems a very good match with my Aqua La Voce DAC. If I had to buy a transport today, I might try the new Project or wait for the Schiit but really, I have absolutely no reason to complain about the Moon. Well, OK-- one complaint-- the CD drawer is very shallow which makes it harder than I'd prefer for me to remove discs withy my aging, stubby fingers... but that's not a big deal. |
I have two high end DACs, COS Engineering D1v and D2v. I tried various DVD and CD players from the 1980s to 2000s. The Sony esd707 killed the CXC as did various Denons 2900, 2910, etc. The CXC sounds accurate in my system, lacking in bass foundation, tonally thin. This in an all tube system. It also has a ridiculously poor remote design, small visible screen and laughable footers (two in the rear, none in the front-it rests on on it's chassis). For the price, CXC is okay but I'd rather use an older, more engaging CD or DVD player using coax out. |
garrard; you are undoubtedly correct. . . in fact; since I posted my last comments I haven't been able to stop thinking about getting a new transport! If there was an online Sim retailer that offered returns to customers residing in CA, I'd order the Neo 260T today. But I haven't had any success in locating one. I may eventually end up ordering the Sim and crossing my fingers. . . |
@stuartk To clarify, the Moon 260T ( the version without build in dac) cost 2K and not 3-4K . Simaudio is very reliable brand and will support their products on long term basis . However I can understand your position ,the CXC is a fine transport even I bought the 260T I am not willing to sell my CXC and saving it as backup .it’s reliable and well build product , This transport is the best value for money right now. |
georgehifi5: Thanks for the info. I suppose I could order the Cambridge from Audio Advisor and compare it to the Jolida. itzhak: To clarify, longevity is my #1 concern. I'd be willing to spend 3-4K, to extend my capacity for spinning discs into the future, but not knowing whether manufacturers will actually have the parts to repair any potential problems down the road is a very thorny issue for me. Fiscally, I'm fairly risk-averse and the fact that the industry-wide trend seems to be away from physical media at this point is not reassuring. If being unwilling to gamble 3-4K equates to being on a tight budget, then yes, I am. When I initiated this thread and simultaneously began researching transports online, I had no idea I'd encounter so much uncertainty regarding longevity. This has definitely altered my perspective. |
@stuartk If you are on tight budget the CXC is the best option you’ll find.it’s an excellent transport for its price. I used the CXC for 2 years till I bought the Moon 260T which is clearly better however not a day and night difference between them.I didn’t sell my CXC and keep it as a backup if something happened to my 260T. |
stuartk OP Ah, you have the Jolida, this is a TNT Audio review of the Cambridge CXC $600 in Australia, and it happens the reviewer owned the Jolida, here’s what he said when he compared them " To say there is a big difference would not be an exaggeration, the CXC clearly reads better than the Jolida. Playing music that had been ripped to the server via pc was always cleaner than the Jolida, which I had put down to the effects of the valve output and DAC. Comparing digital out on the Jolida to the CXC there is a vast difference with the Cambridge extracting more information (detail, air and ambient space) and less fuzziness (or cleaner sound). The CXC also trumps the sound of the same disc ripped via pc to the server."https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge_cxc_e.html Cheers George |
Wrap-up: Given the current trend away from physical media and the lack of consensus as to how long manufacturers of transports/CDPs might continue to stock parts, I'm unwilling to gamble on spending 3-4K to upgrade in that direction. At the same time, I'm in no hurry to jump into computer audio. If I had unlimited funds to lavish on audio or harbored a fondness for frequently buying/selling gear, it might be a different story. As neither is the case, I can't see a way to go that's more practical than hanging on to what I've got until the Jolida gives up the ghost, and then, moving to a server... barring the unlikely event of a transport/CDP "renaissance", due to some sort of technical break-through we can't yet foresee. In the meantime, I offer my thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread. |
According to Bel Canto website, that cdp you suggested is no longer being made, as the drives are no longer available. I'd be nervous purchasing a unit for which no drives were available, in case of failure. Couple thoughts. Bel Canto may have a supply of replacement parts. You can probably check with them on this. Also, you're buying this at less than 50% of retail, so if you get several years of use out of it, you're not out all that much. Last, the thing really feels like it's overbuilt, and there is no flimsy drawer to fail. It's a top-mounted unit. Jitter is stated to be 250 femtoseconds -- most transports are stated in picoseconds. Just saying, might be well worth the risk, especially if BC has replacement parts -- assuming you'd even ever need them. |
I posted my opinion in the last CD Transport post. I build my own direct heated triode R2R DAC and have used many transports including many of the above. So here is my opinion. I was using an older Audiomeca as a transport with a separate power supply. That was the best sounding of everything mentioned above but it is not driven by a belt, it is driven by a string attached to a spring. So repairing the unit is an issue. I also used an older CEC TL5100Z and a Rega Apollo and Saturn as transports. The CEC sounds better than the Rega but the Rega has great tone and more of a jump factor, CEC much more musical for long term listening. I would choose the CEC over the Rega but could live with the Rega. I used to own a CEC TL-2X which was nice sounding but I sold mine as CEC no longer had replacement parts. It was a better sounding transport than my CEC TL-5100Z. We compared the Cambridge to the NuPrime and to an older Sim Audio used as transports into my DAC and a Musical Fidelity (M1 DAC?) that was modified by me with V-Caps, etc. In each listening arrangement, The Rega sounded better than the Cambridge, NuPrime and the Sim Audio. We did not have the Jay Audio at that time but another person has one with the Terminator DAC. That set-up did not outperform the CEC TL5100Z with the DHT DAC. Was not even close. So you have to really listen for yourself in your own system to see what you prefer. If you are looking at older model units, the lasers are getting harder to find. So even though these units can be repaired, it is getting harder to finds the parts. Plus some of the lasers were modified so even if you do find the part, it may not be a plug and play arrangement. I hope this was helpful. Happy Listening. |
I have a C.E.C TL2 and a TL2 X. Per Nick at true sounds who is the only US service center for C.E.C the new CEC gear is not as good as vintage like I have. I purchased a TL5 from Mutine back when he was a North American rep it was close to the TL2 but not the same. I am still kicking myself in the donkey for selling it however. Also trying to talk to the US rep Audio Union is a joke. |
Here is a good CEC option...https://www.audiogon.com/listings?q=CEC |
I had used CEC Tl0x from 2000 to 2006. It was the best transport that I had used with sharp focus and tight bass. But I ditched it since it kept failing to read some of CDs after 6 years of use. I got Jay’ Audio CDT2 about 7 months ago without auditioning relying on review. But I am happy with it. Jay’s approach 90% of the performance of CEC Tl0x at less than 1/5 th price. I recommend you to go for new Jay’ Audio CDT2. It is hard to get used one since the owners are happy with it. |
georeghifi I read your comment about CXC Vs. Moon 260T ( not 260D with built in DAC) and must disagree . I owned the CXC which is a great transport for its price but felt that is not exactly hi end gear and after less than 2 years of use I ordered the Moon 260T (dedicated transport without the build in dac of the 260D which cost 1K more) and the difference is substantial it’s a true high end transport the sound is much "clean" and clear,every note is more accurate. It’s more organic and natural. It was the first time I felt my digital sources now really sound analog and I am not missing my vinyl collection anymore. Yes the difference between their prices is huge but the improvement the Moon 260T provide to my system justifies the cost. |
adg10: I've thought about going with one of the similar units by Innuos of Portugal, but I don't own a smart-phone or tablet and frankly, the prospect of having to use one to operate my audio system is not appealing. I'm idiosyncratically more inclined to put off the computerized route for as long as I can but thanks for the suggestion. |
Bluesound Vault II. Can’t believe I waited as long as I did to get one. Using my Cambridge 851C as a DAC only. Once you try it you’ll never go back. Feed it your CD’s and control them from your tablet or smartphone. You don’t have to jump into a streaming service at first but you will... you will. I’m floored how good this thing sounds; the internal DAC is pretty good but I prefer the DAC in the Cambridge which is noticeably better. I bought the previous model direct from the Bluesound site for $800 compared to $1200 for the new unit. |
@stuartk @mooglie I would highly recommend checking out CEC as others here have suggested. If you want to get in touch with the U.S. Distributor, contact Nick Gowan at gowanattsounddotcompany and he will help you. I purchased a TL-1 and it has been fantastic! |
georgehifi; I was actually intimating that, as my system is relatively inexpensive, my concern about using an inexpensive transport might strike some as odd. The only two audiophile friends I have own much, much, more costly systems, so that's all I have to compare mine to. Thanks for your input re: merits of Sim vs. Cambridge. I'm pretty clue-less when it comes to knowledge of CD drives. Here, the Sim costs $2000 US but, as mentioned, I haven't found an option for a home demo. I am aware that such an option exists for the Cambridge and from more than one online vendor but I do appreciate your input! |
stuartk OP Don’t be, my systems up there too and I use the Cambridge CXC, it’s only $600aud here in Australia, but it’s a purpose built CD transport, that has very good spdif wave form (I’ve measured and see it) and said to only have 5 ps of jitter, and looking how clean the wave form is I believe that. Here’s what Lapizator (transport guru) said about it when I showed him pics of the tests. This wave form is as perfect as it gets. The Sim Moon Neo 260D you said having a flimsy transport is that it has nothing special in the way of a transport laser mechanism, having a Sanyo SF-HD65 in it. https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SFHD65M-SF-HD65M-HD65M-Original-New-Sanyo-Laser-Lens-Mechanism-SF-HD65/120971864496?epid=1300237646&hash=item1c2a7c29b0:g:wloAAMXQiM5RAREU&frcectupt=true So one cost $600aud and the other $4000aud, with laser/transport mech that are, well as good as each other. Some of the places you can get the Cambridge CXC from are the type of store that you can take it back to if not happy, here in AU they are in hiend stores but also in hifi chain stores that you can return to. Reviews https://www.whathifi.com/cambridge-audio/cxc/review https://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/cambridge_cxc_e.html https://www.dagogo.com/cambridge-audio-cxc-transport-review/ Cheers George |
soix: I found a short stereophile description of the two devices: " There is now an Off-Ramp 5 asynchronous USB converter ($1299), which now has HDMI in addition to S/PDIF and i2S output" and: " the Synchro-Mesh reclocker ($599), which dejitters the datastream for a source such as an Apple TV, Squeezebox, or CD transport". Steve was the one who actually recommended the Synchro-Mesh to me on another of my A'gon threads, so that's what I went with. Is your description of the Bel Canto as a unit that "seems like it'll last forever" based on the drive, the casework, or ???? |
@stuartk -- I'm not familiar with the syncromesh vs. the Offramp, but my impression is the Offramp could make the transport a non issue. Personally, I'd get an Offramp and not have to pay or worry so much about the transport going forward. And yes, I fed a BC DAC3 VB with my Oppo and the CD2, and there was a notable improvement with the CD2 as a transport. However, and this is a BIG however, I would've loved to have heard the DAC3 VB with my Oppo with an Offramp and see how that compared. My guess is there would've been very little difference. The main reason I recommended the CD2 is that I've had personal experience with it and it really seems built to last for the long term and destroyed my Oppo as a transport. But I'd talk with Emprical Audio about your reclocker versus the Offramp and start there. Personally, I'd get the CD2 mainly because it seems like it'll last forever as a transport, then take Emprical Audio's advice on which reclocker will help your system sound its best. |
uberwaltz: True Sound carries and services the CEC units, so if I was to buy one, at least I'd have someone relatively close by, in case anything went wrong. That changes the equation in CEC's favor, somewhat. . garrard: thanks for gear list. soix2: I have the Synchromesh reclocker. Isn't the Offramp his DAC. . . or am I mistaken ? Do you have personal experience with the Bel canto and if so, what was its sonic impact on your system ? Thanks for the cable recommendation. |
If you're using an Empiracle Audio Offramp I'm not sure you'll hear all that much difference between transports, no? I'd just buy this Bel Canto CD2 and be done with it. Built like a tank... https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649501384-bel-canto-cd2/ I'd also highly recommend trying this digital cable. It's only 40 bucks and it beat out my Stereovox (aka Black Cat) XV2 digital cable in terms of tonality and overall more organic and balanced sound. It was also John Atkinson's reference digital cable for a while. FWIW... https://www.amazon.com/Geistnotes-Apogee-Clock-Cable-WE-BB/dp/B01N6XL1XW/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3ODRJOPRA5T... |
mooglie: perhaps I should clarify that I have no real complaints re: sound. My main aim is to increase longevity of my capacity for spinning cds without degrading the system's present sound. I have no desire to burn discs or stream at this point and besides, I actually enjoy handling physical media. The Jolida is probably 10 years old and the design is perhaps 15 years old-- I'm not certain. In considering a current model transport, I'm looking for something that will last as well as be serviceable (I'd want, like you, to buy an extra drive). I thought an up-to-date, dedicated transport might also offer enhanced sound as an added benefit. However, the modded Jolida + Aqua sounds pretty darned good, so maybe, as uberwaltz has suggested, I might not be able to better it, significantly, for my budget. |
