@Ebm Thats a real joke get VPI 17F or 16.5 steam is for dry cleaning.HELLO!!
HELLO! This is a thread about steam cleaning records.
Steam cleaning in conjunction with the Okki Nokki produces great results, and cleans deeper and more thoroughly than the machine itself. I thought about getting a VPI and picked the Okki Nokki over it. But I still would have used a steamer.
When I was at Walgreens a few months ago, I saw a steamer that looks to be the same thing as the Perfection. It's green instead of red and was called Living Solutions as I recall. That's probably the route I'll go when my last Perfection gives out.
Some of the points raised about level of heat involved got me thinking. I'm not so sure the idea of getting deep into the grooves makes sense giving that uses fine nylon brushes and lots of fluid should get in there pretty well.
I think the heat is killing bacteria and removing mold that otherwise remains when using cool/cold fluids. But who knows...
I keep thinking about a bit I heard on the news or science class about hot water on you face and skin and how it takes very little heat to open up human pores; the point was that you don't need scalding hot water, in conjunction with soap, to get clean. but I think it helps that we have "hot" vapor involved here of course.
I'm thinking about a simple pre-cleaning with steam and was looking the mini Joy Mangano units for about $5-10
This is something i started doing recently and it has helped with LPs that have a lot of grunge and dust on it. Before you do anything pass the steamer across the LP and vacuum up before you put a brush to the record. This will get a majority of the dirt and funk off the record surface before it gets scrubbed into the grooves. This has almost eliminated the fuzz ball phenomenon on most records and also helps for a even quieter playing record..
the other possibility is using tap water in your steamer. It can through salts on the record. Been there done that. The best water is ro or double distilled. Less solids and less contamination
I'm new to audiogon and have relatively recently started steam cleaning LPs that look like they should play better then they do after using my Nitty Grittty. I have noticed that after steaming when I play the record the needle seems to gradually pick up a tiny fur ball of a light white appearing material-which comes off easily but as it gathers it affects-poorly-distortion-of the sound. After removing the fur ball and playing over the area again I can usually get to enjoy the record as it is as clean as it will be. What is this fur ball? Weirdly if I steam the record again another fur ball will form-usually a somewhat smaller one. I've done this 4 times on one LP and gotten 4 fur balls. And this happens on multiple records usually relatively clean ones. Any ideas?
Alan I've been using disk doctor cleaning fluids. Vpi 17f brushes With my 16,5 record cleaning machine. The rcm is not necessary as a Lazy susan works well for spinning your records. And as doak Mentioned steamers are available. Good luck and let us know Your progress. Mike
I have read this thread with great interest and I want to try this method. As the model originally available at Walgreens is now gone, what is the recommended steamer now? Also without having to read about a thousand posts, is there a place where one can read an overview or summary of what products to use/get?
I have not had problems with impacting labels unless i have a lot of cleaning fluid or rinse water on the record when i steam. The plume of the steam should be controlled to avoid hitting the label. Takes a little practice but worked well. I spin with one hand and direct the steam with another(i have a manual TT platform that I use to clean and steam on)
When I steam cleaned, I started at the edge and moved in towards the center but the spray of the steamer would splash upon hitting the LP... I don't see how you couldn't help but get the label wet.
Madfloyd I used walkers cleaning system. For me steaming is better for a Quite playing record with better sound though before I discovered This thread that's what I used. When I steam clean my lps I use a vpi 16,5 to spin the lp while steaming Starting at the outside of the lp and work my way to the inside when I reach the dead wax I stop and the label stays dry. You also Could use a drinking glass with a large mouth to cover the label Mike
Has anyone compared steam cleaning to the Walker four step Prelude system?
I used to steam clean but got tired of having to dry off labels and have been using the Walker method for a while - but wondering what produces better results (costs aside).
Thanks Mike, I experiment all the time, but such things cost money. And since you and others already have your steamers, I thought somebody could try it and see if warm misting would have the same affect. With an RCM, people close to me already had one, I watched, then listened, then bought. I'm not going to invest in something I'm not sure about, at least not at this time.
When I run out of my ultra pure water, I might take a B list lp and try the aqanuanafineanuna or whatever some call it and see on one side of the lp if it's the same as the other with the ultra pure. That type of experiment I'll gladly do and report back in.
Has anyone tried using a tea kettle that has a steam spout? or is real steam too hot? if it'd work at least it be cheap and easy to try.
Chashas why don't you join in and try some of the items you listed Above and report back to us and contribute instead of asking Why not start trying. Not only in audio but in most things if you Don't try or I should say experiment you will never know for Your self what is possible. Good luck Mike
I had a small travel steamer once, really didn't work worth a damn. It was hardly more than a mister, slightly warm, nothing more. A real steamer to my mind emits steam, which is 212F, and that's hot.
Actually steam has nothing to do with 212f, steam can occur at much lower temps. My Perfection steamer is very hot and would burn burn you (and I have) The hot steam reacts with the gunk in the grooves to loosen it better than if it was cold. Just like dishwashers work better at hotter temps. Plenty of others have cleaned records with tap water, Windex and everything else you can imagine, hot steam seems to get the really tough gunk that is easily audible during playback. Sometimes I have to steam a record more than once to get all the visible stuff off the surface and if you can see it you surely are going to hear it.
So how do you know that it is really going deep inside the grooves as you say? Do you think it's the mist that does that, or just liquid in general? Why not just spray your record with an atomizer...has anyone tried that and compared? I had a small travel steamer once, really didn't work worth a damn. It was hardly more than a mister, slightly warm, nothing more. A real steamer to my mind emits steam, which is 212F, and that's hot. I would love to have somebody with a steamer try just spritzing their lp with the same amount of fluid they think they would administer with a "steamer" and report in.
Also, why does no one seem to own a Mapleshade steamer? No one seems to have said so on this thread.
Crem, since you seem to be in league with them, do you own one, why or why not?
Chashas the old perfection steamer I use has pressure behind the steam It has force to help get deep inside the grooves. For my rinse cycles I think this has a positive effect on playback. Mike
Funny you..... The marketing class I was in tried it, and it does work, or did then, for rust...can't attest to any other miracle claims...it made several of us give it up way back then, as best we could.
Maybe this has already been covered here, but seeing the Mapleshade site, and seeing their claim of the steam reaching only 140 degrees, isn't that really more like misting than actually steaming (I think of steam as very hot). Why not just warm your cleaning fluids or preferred water to 140 or so and spray? Why the need for this so-called steamer? And, one more, has anyone actually bought and used the Mapleshade steamer?
Love the Mapleshade steam gun, looks very 50's space movie style. Does it work as well as the others mentioned? Didn't realize how divesified the mapleshade guy was. Not happy about his use of old growth maple, though, even if he does employ the Amish to do it.
Tvad, maybe the new Coke is not the same formula, but in the olden days car collectors used coke to remove rust from chrome, first brought to my attention way back in the 70's by a marketing professor of mine, who was into vintage cars.
Many of these small hand held steamers (Perfection, Living Solutions, SteamFast) are now difficult to find.
Tvad- Do you know why? Should I grab a spare while I still have access to them?
As far as the audible difference between rinses, I haven't developed the ability to hear the minute differences. By using the Casco Nerl I feel that I am doing my part to clean and protect my vinyl without introducing more contaminants than I started with. I don't doubt that some will claim to hear the difference in the products themselves. I still can't get over the fact that others can hear the difference during weather changes re: is it your hearing system that changes or the playback system that changes? But that is another question.
Tvad- I used Coke to steam my records LIKE YOU INSISTED! At first the had a lot of energy, but after I left them out for a bit they all sound, well, flat.
As for Mapleshade Audio , read the unwavering , doctumentated support of Steam Cleaning & the offer to give your money back , provided, you meet the requirements as published.
I read that as an advertisement. $50 +/- worth of merchandise for $150-
Since we all agree that the rinse step is vital to a good cleaning, I choose to use the Casco Nerl Reagent grade water (5 gal- $55-) that was brought to my attention by JohnBrown. Although Pepsi and Aquafina may be a fine company they haven't undergone the rigorous testing for impurities that Nerl has, nor do they claim to. In fact Aquafina was found to be sourced from tap water and has been forced to add that to its list of contents. It may be fine but .....
Gentleman : Your remarks have been taken seriously. Be respectful. Tvad remarks should never have been published; they imply that AG sanctions undoctumented snipes/remarks against a Company Product (Aqunafina Water) :Based upon scientific evidence all negative remarks against Aquniafina Water are unfounded. "Coke" is nothing more than a subterfuge for mocking an American Marque.
You are not questioning one turntable vs another. Take care to make bald misconceptions against products where reams of scientific evidence exist against your unfounded,unscientific chatter.
As for Mapleshade Audio , read the unwavering , doctumentated support of Steam Cleaning & the offer to give your money back , provided, you meet the requirements as published.
Lets cut to the chase. Mapleshade Audio & I are in complete agreement in regard to Steam Cleaning. Pepsi & I have had detailed discussions & they have committed the Company to an inquery in regards to Aqunafina Water. Mapleshade has made a generious offer outlined in Mapleshades Spring 09 Handbook (PP63-64) to allow buyers of their steam cleaning product outlined on those pages to try steam cleaning for 30 days. The offer stands on its own merits and can be read in the handbook or on line @ www.mapleshaderecords.com. The deal is simple try their product & should you meet the requirements posted and are dissatisified they will return your money.
Both Mapleshade & Pepsi take there products seriously . Mapleshade defends Steam Cleaning , Pepsi Aqunafina Water. They have the resources to support the respective products. Are you willing to come forward & try Steam Cleaning ? Its no longer about "Crem1", its about if you will meet the challenge. Well, do you ??
In fact, I have had an email correspondence with 'Stltrains' that was informative and...great. Looking at his web personality, and his youtube vinyl-steaming video, perhaps he should take over as 'Steaming Head Honcho'-he certainly seems to have less ego involved, and seems much more directed to simply wanting clean records.
No, no. no, Charlie/Crem is the rightful steam cleaning head honcho, He has spent more time and effort on this than any human and deserves to be Top Dog. My position is that the value of any idea or processes directly corresponds to the quality, depth and breadth of criticism it can withstand.
Johnbrown i dont believe we need a single person here to lead the discussions. We are all in this together for better playback of our records. As you found out for yourself steaming lps can improve the sound and reduce the surface noise for a quitter lp. Thats why i believe this thread should stop being hijacked by posters whos only goal is not interest in steaming or better play back but stirring the pot instead.
Tvad if you are so interested in the differences in the 3 waters you keep mentioning why dont you try using them in your method of cleaning vinyl and report back to us on your findings. More than one persons experience with those waters could be beneficial to the group. What do you think. Mike
Zenblaster-I think we're of the same mind-I, too, came on this thread and thought it might hold useful info for LP cleaning. I made no posts until I found an obvious error (Type 1 water cost), and a logic thread that needed disputing (simply because someone says 'Aquafina' is pure water doesn't necessarily make it so).
In fact, I have had an email correspondence with 'Stltrains' that was informative and...great. Looking at his web personality, and his youtube vinyl-steaming video, perhaps he should take over as 'Steaming Head Honcho'-he certainly seems to have less ego involved, and seems much more directed to simply wanting clean records.
Be that as it may, since I'm also interested in planar speakers, I'd like to have a link to the thread that you spoke of. PM is fine as to not take away from the important business at hand.
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