@honashagen -- congratulations, the result you have achieved is exactly what I would have expected -- do you also find that the quality of the bass has improved, with more crispness and tightness to notes? Anyway having lived with STs for over a year now every time I would no be going back
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I have read through this thread, overall, I agree with Erik. I would do a tow in with these speakers and get a better handle of what you are after... A bit more tilt up of the treble region? Better air & detail around the instruments? More energy in the treble region. You can achieve some improvement in air & detail or maybe a bit more energy in the high frequencies with a simple switchout of a few capacitors with the same value. |
Update- I bought a pair of Taket Batpure super tweeters. I wasn't even sure if they were working. I would try with and without and it seemed sometimes I could tell a difference and other times not. I have had them connected now for a couple of weeks and decided to disconnect them last night. Everything seemed flat and lifeless without them. If you connect these things by themselves you can't even hear them! |
Golden Ear Triton one’s achieve this by a severe boost around 10 kHz. If that’s the sound you want, you need to sculpt the HF response."Ear drill" is the perfect description. I’ve always suspected they were designed for older listeners (the guys who tend to have money) with hearing loss. |
AMTs are in general, the opposite of what I would recommend for the OP. You can buy Mundorf bipolar AMT's at Madisound. Excellent performners, but you'll need to make a little stand. Not much more than a block of wood with a slot cut across it for the tweeter's lower lip. HOWEVER, they simply do not sound like what the OP is asking for. They are glass smooth. Supremely natural. Golden Ear Triton one's achieve this by a severe boost around 10 kHz. If that's the sound you want, you need to sculpt the HF response. https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-one-loudspeaker-measurements << shiver >> god those speakers are ear drills to me.... but for many this may make up for lost hearing there, so the combination of spaeker + owner may be ideal. |
I've seen stand alone Air AMT tweeters at AliEpress. There are 2 different versions. Both versions in external enclosures, with binding post connections and level controls. So, simple enough to try. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/High-power-ribbon-tweeter-planar-transducer-transformer-AMT-for-diy-audio-monitor-speaker/32809442695.html?spm=2114.10010108.1000013.1.27153ed1l5xzmW&traffic_analysisId=recommend_2088_1_90158_iswistore&scm=1007.13339.90158.0&pvid=331590c3-522d-4793-96e7-0506f4fcba55&tpp=1 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Hi-sensitivity-high-power-Air-motion-tweeter-transducer-transformer-AMT-ribbon-tweeter-speaker/32811819743.html?spm=2114.search0104.3.280.721a44dblZxVse&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_4_10152_10065_10151_10344_10068_5722918_10130_10324_10342_5722818_10547_10325_10343_10546_10340_10548_10341_10698_5722618_10545_10696_10084_10083_10618_10307_5722718_5711215_10059_308_100031_10103_5722518_10624_10623_10622_5711315_10621_10620,searchweb201603_2,ppcSwitch_5&algo_expid=b37d269b-8baf-4bbf-86e7-c73c3d85ba7f-25&algo_pvid=b37d269b-8baf-4bbf-86e7-c73c3d85ba7f&priceBeautifyAB=0 |
A friends B&W 802D2 has that sparkle I’m referring to as well. Ringing tweeter also? If a driver cone sounds like the material it’s made of, as is the case with many speakers mentioned here, then yes (yeah, yeah, I'm well aware of cone breakup measurements...) I’ll call it "ringing" since that’s what it sounds like to my ears. You can call it "sparkle," but I believe what you’re hearing is the inherent properties of cone materials masquerading as extra detail. That’s great for selling speakers to home theater buffs, not so great for long term musical enjoyment. |
I have an Audible Illusions L2 tube pre now. You are correct. The Revels are more natural. They do everything. I guess I'm looking for high end that is not strident but detailed and midrange that is sort of polite and doesn't hurt when you turn it up. My cousins B&W 802D2 has a midrange and high end I like. I have tried so many speakers. KEF LS50, Tannoy XT8F and XT6F, Spatial M3, Golden Ear Triton 2, Dynaudio Contour S3.4, Totem Hawk, Gallo 3.5. Frustrating. And this, in a nutshell, is what I consider the "high end sound" which JA has promoted. As the OP has put it, it is not natural, but has "extra detail." I call it ragged frequency response with emphasis on a couple of bands at the sacrifice of others. I make no value judgement here, but I am saying we need to be more aware, like the OP is, that it's far from natural, and if JA would stop calling it that, I'd be happier. Best, E |
@honashagen have you considered that the room may be the issue? Treating the room with for example a set of SR HFTs may give you not only control of the room but also an ability to tune the high frequencies to suit your taste. For example in my room adding or removing one HFT at ear level front and center has a major impact on specificity and level of high frequencies (this is even true for removing one ball on the Vibratron but the SR ART system is much more expensive) My point is that you need to consider how the speakers and room interact and by adjustng this may be able to tailor the sound to suit your preferences |
I have an Audible Illusions L2 tube pre now. You are correct. The Revels are more natural. They do everything. I guess I'm looking for high end that is not strident but detailed and midrange that is sort of polite and doesn't hurt when you turn it up. My cousins B&W 802D2 has a midrange and high end I like. I have tried so many speakers. KEF LS50, Tannoy XT8F and XT6F, Spatial M3, Golden Ear Triton 2, Dynaudio Contour S3.4, Totem Hawk, Gallo 3.5. Frustrating. |
It may be a good time to talk definitions. Air to me is different than sparkle and scintillation. Air feels more natural, like you are hearing the room itself. Sparkle/Scintilation feels like a Disney / Fuji film kind of extra color added. I agree that the Revel tweets are pretty good! So that's why I suggested maybe the issue is the caps. The reason I don't like Magico SIO's is exactly what the OP wants. :) |
Agreed on previous comments - a super tweeter will not add sparkle. Most of these drivers can and will reproduce frequencies up to 20khz and beyond. You will really not "hear" anything a super tweeter would potentially add, unless you have a very damped room (with lots of sound absorption). It's amazing that many people do not realize that much of the perceived high frequencies are actually coming from BOTH the midrange and tweeter. There is a huge amount of high frequency detail that comes from midrange drivers as low as 3,000 to 5,000 hz. The quality of the midrange can definitely affect how you feel about the "sweetness" of the highs. I have experienced this by comparing a coated paper midwoofer with a coated magnesium midwoofer - in the exact same cabinet with the same tweeter. Crossover at that point was 3khz. So, if you love the sparkle and sweetness of the totems or Gallo, it is likely that the Revel sound more "sterile" or "flat" to your ears. |
Triangle would be one of the candidates, but other instruments have even more energy above 20KHz -- this is a very interesting article on the subject https://www.cco.caltech.edu/~boyk/spectra/spectra.htm |
Townshend is a good choice, as is the Enigmacoustics Sopranino I do however have to note that a super tweeter should not add "sparkle" to your speaker. If you can hear the effect of a ST as sparkle you probably have the cross over set too low or the ST level set too high. The ST should be heard more as a tightening of transients and a greater appreciation for the space in the recording. You shouldn’t actually be hearing the ST (unless you are a dog or a teenager) |
