Rhljazz, excellent point. I wonder if seating the speaker spike in a concave bowl or cone would reduce or eliminate any loss of energy due to friction between the speaker cones and the stand surface (or vice versa). Jeff |
Yeah it seems that realistically what we are discussing here are simply the interaction via a different material vs. the actual design implementaion itself.. I would feel that a sound deadner sheet about an 8th inch thick flat under the speaker removing the wood on wood ringing would probably be best, or spikes would be the next step simply to separate the sound from bringing the stand into the equation as an acoustical device at all and just simulate the speakers as if they are floating or just like they are directly on the floor via the only reason of the stand is simply to put them at the height for the drivers to perform at ear level.. It seems right now the stands play a bigger part and are acoustically altering the system for the better in most cases, if spikes were used it might remove some of that body and sound balance in my opinion, but then spikes could increase slightly in detail, but this does not make it more musical. I think leaving the thick rubber stopper vs. putting a deadner sheet will make little difference but would probably just muddy the sound if anything.
Only reason for the question was simple passion for the hobby, and now I see the conclusion is there are probably a few monitors designed to play a part with a stand acoustically and try to re-create the soundstage and anchoring of a floorstanding unit, and some simply use a stand to literally just raise the height of the speaker but not to really make a speaker sound better acoustically. |
Ji2468,I would say the coupling pressure (pounds per square inch) would be much greater at the tip of a point than on a flat metal/wood plate. |
I'm with Jeff and Cytocycle, I prefer blu tak or rubber...so that less vibrations travel to the stand and floor...to me any vibration that is not coming from the speaker or through the air is unwanted. My exception is when you have thin-walled speakers (such as Harbeth) where the box itself is acting like a speaker cone and intended to add to the sound itself as the cabinet waffles like a wooden instrument - in this case, depending on the room/placement, it may help to allow the cabinet to "resonate" freely, as it is designed this way - so spikes may be better than damping material. |
I'm not good at physics, so feel free to tear down this hypothesis (only for speakers on stands).
For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. So, when the speaker cone moves back and forth, some of its energy may get spent moving the speaker cabinet in addition to moving air.
Setting the speaker cabinet directly on a heavy stand couples it to the stand and thereby provides more mass to resist movement of the speaker cabinet. Spikes would seem to de-couple the cabinet from the heavy stand, thereby defeating the mass advantage of the heavy stand. So, spikes allow some energy that could go into moving air to go into moving the cabinet.
Also, sitting the speaker on spikes seems to encourage more movement of the speaker cabinet versus the speaker cone by reducing the drag or friction between the speaker and its stand.
It seems like one would want the speaker coupled to a heavy stand (either in direct contact or, if the stand top is slick, on something with a lot of friction such as rubber) and the stand on spikes. OK, fire away. Jeff |
Get some BluTack if this is for monitors on speaker stands. This will couple the speakers to the stand, fill the stand with sand and lead and make sure the stand is spiked to the floor.
http://www.blu-tack.co.uk/ available anywhere it's used to hold up posters on the wall.. Sounds like the "moongel" mentioned above also.
If you use spikes facing up from the stand to the bottom of the speaker, make sure to mass load the speaker with a bag of lead shot or sand. |
There are some extremely detailed, knowledgeable, lengthy and well written posts on this and similar topics. Search
the archives for lots of good information.
The purpose of a spike point is not to "drain" energy. It is to keep energy from passing by creating a mechanical impedeance mismatch. It also couples the items together, therefore assists in mass damping. These things occur whether the spike is up or down. The reason why you usually see spikes points up between the stand and speaker is probably because the speaker is less likely to fall off the stand if it vibrates too much or is bumped. This is not a problem for the spike between the stand and the floor (or between a floorstanding speaker and the floor) because the spike is screwed right in to the base of the item on top. |
If nothing else works I would take a look at the orthopedic bunion gel toe cap. It looks like a good multi-use product.
http://www.healthyfeetstore.com/bunionstoes.html
I imagine it is very good for isolation and may be in the middle of the methods you are looking at. |
I an using Chicago stands like Tiger. They are spiked pointing up to the speaker from the base plate, and also spiked at the base of the stand to the carpet over concrete floor. The speakers are fairly light weight sealed box design Triad System 3. The day I set them up they sounded great and I have not tried any other interface combinations. The spikes in the Chicago stands are held to the stand with lock nuts so they are not just resting on the top plate. |
Shardone, not so concerned about coloration so much as "are we restricting" any kind of energy transfer that if it was coupled to the stand opposed to being decoupled from the stand as it is now with rubber possibly getting better results in the foundation or resolution of the final sound that’s all. Thanks, guess its all experimentation, just figured why not see who has a solid opinion one way or the other. |
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They are very heavy 1" plus Thick walls, relatively braced MDF with internal damping.. They are ported as well.
Then I would be careful about spending huge sums of money on spikes....rubber pads should be fine. Since the box should not be adding too much coloration then my guess is that it won't make a huge difference either way... |
I have three sets of stands, all spiked into the floor. All are used with ProAc speakers, three different model sets. Two sets have spikes up. The latter stands are Chicago brand, four three quarter inch post, 24 inch high, filled with lead shot. The other set, Studio Tech, four posts one and one half inch, 24 inch high, filled with sand, have no spikes on the top plate. I use ‘MoonGel’ between the speaker and the top plate. MoonGel is something from the drummer’s world, it is tacky blue pads. It will cost you about $6 per speaker and is available in musical instrument stores that sell drums. .
I’ve tried spikes and moongel on all the stands, before coming to the present set up. My conclusion was that some speakers like spikes, some moon gel. You need to try each with a speaker to see which sound better in your environment. I also use moongel on all my speakers that are on shelving in other areas of the house. Works well.
I also have a single, center channel stand, recently acquired. It is a Sound Anchor, with dual, two inch posts, dampened. No spikes in the top plate yet, only using moongel. I will shortly get the top plate drilled so I can experiment with spikes. The speaker being used is a ProAc 140 center channel. I also plan to try some of my other ProAc’s on this stand, in dual mode, to see which sound is best. The center channel is adjustable to any height so I can line up all of the tweeters.
Tweak, forever. |
They are very heavy 1" plus Thick walls, relatively braced MDF with internal damping.. They are ported as well. |
If you have thin wall speakers like Harbeth's then this can obviously make a big difference.
If you have very heavy braced speakers with thick walls and a highly damped cabinet then it probably matters very little what you use...
So it depends mostly on the Speakers and how much coloration the box puts out. |
