Speaker Volume

Need more info.

How far away are you listening? How large is the room? Do you mean not enough volume, or not enough bass?

The room is approximately 15' X 20 '.  It's not a large room.  The speakers are about 8 to 10 feet away; directly in from of the couch.  I am listening to Pandora through a laptop connected through HDMI to the NAD. 

I admit, I probably shouldn't be listening at such loud levels, but I have a couple beers, or a dram of scotch and I like to crank up the music.  It's clean and great sounding, and the bass is fine, but it could be a bit louder.  Just the total volume would be nice.Thanks!

The Persona B is a high quality bookshelf, stand mounted ( preferable ) speaker that has a bass limit to 60hz, + or - 2db. Not a cranking type speaker, ime. Your Nad is 140 watt Nad power, so this should not the problem. I would run the speakers, using the Nad’s crossover, at a higher cut off frequency, and add an excellent powered sub, and crank away. The Nad also has input level matching, that can be memorized between sources, and the gain to that input could be set lower. You may want to try connecting the laptop output, using the headphone out, into the Nad, instead of the HDMI. My first comment is my recommendation, for cranking. I have been told my several people, that Pandora is highly compressed, so this might also be what you are listening to. Not familiar with Pandora through a system, personally. Enjoy ! MrD.

How loud are you listening in db`s ?
Down load an app like SPLnFFT or NIOSH SLM and get real time measurements. 

That will show exactly how loud your listening levels are. 

mrdecibel scm1
Ok, I need to get on the learning curve regarding NADs cut over. I don’t know what that means. Sorry about the noob status. The one thing I did do that was fast. I downloaded Keuwlsoft SPL Meter.

At full volume from 8-10 feet directly in front of the speakers the meter ran an average of 105 dBA. It would max at 107dBA.

Is 105 dBA normal? According to what I am hearing, it should be more. What is normal high volume?
elizabeth  As far as a pre amp for the laptop, I may try to take another route. I have Qobuz, Tidal and Deezer with Blu Os on my Windows 10 desktop. Everything is attached with CAT6 1GB network speed. I will try the SPL meter using BluOs and see what happens.
Thank you for trying to help me with this.

105 DB is loud! Are you sure your hearing is normal? Take a look at this!
https://www.gcaudio.com/tips-tricks/decibel-loudness-comparison-chart/

I have tried a few phone apps to use, but heavily rely on my Radio Shack meter. A few good meters are available, starting at $20, going up to double, that I feel are superior to using the phone apps. My feeling is that the phones ( the built in mics, and the casing part, where the mic is on the phone ) are the weakness, as opposed to the apps. As yogiboy has said, 105 db is loud. I play my system, at times, when peaks hit 105 - 110 db, but these peaks are not constant, and the normal range is 20 db below that, at 85 to 90 db, which is still too loud for some people. I take my own hearing tests ( there are apps for that ), which are through headphones, and I visit my audiologist every birthday. There are many decibel graphs available, showing a wide range of user products, such as blenders, sink disposals, and much more. Enjoy ! MrD.

Yes, 105 dB IS loud. IMO, @mrdecibel  has a solution. According to the specs he has researched, your speakers are not presenting the bass frequencies which would be responsible for "loudness." 

Add a subwoofer. There are dealers who have trial periods or return policies such as Music Direct.

Get a roll of duct tape and a friend. Hold one speaker up to each ear while the friend wraps them tight around your head. Use the whole roll. Any gaps bass will escape costing a few dB off the low end. Leave just enough space to breathe and suck a couple beers or dram of Scotch through a straw. Not quite concert ear damage but close.

Get a double adapter for your headphone jack.  Use a set of ear buds in one output and then a set of cans in the other and use both at the same time.  You should be good to go then......

Guess I will have to settle for 105.  I don't listen at those levels often. It's not like being at a live concert.  I think if it made 110 to 115 that would be ideal.  I feel my ears strain at 107-108.  I am sure you have been to live concerts where things rattle for a while afterwards.  Once or twice a year is fine. I just want that occasionally.  Since you have told me this is normal, I can go with it.  BTW, my hearing is good. 

I appreciate all your input.  Thanks!

Careful with that "my hearing is good" line. I don't know how old you are, but hearing loss is typically a cumulative trauma. I knew a lot of smokers who went years without problems, but they paid the price when they got older.

I don't know how old you are, but if symptoms do show up later, then it's too late. I know I've paid a price for some of my youthful folly!

   mlsstl   I am retirement age but still working.  I know growing up, I abused my ears.  I worked construction around heavy equipment for a long time then went back to college and earned a couple degrees and changed fields. Worked in a cement plant and drove trucks for about 15 years.  I have worked in systems for the last 25 years.  I guess I take good hearing for granted a bit.  I have more trouble with my eyes as I age.
Thanks for the concern.  I appreciate it. 

110-115db. WOW!! To each his own. I personally have no desire to be around anything that loud anymore. One night we had friends over for dinner,and after many drinks we’d headed in to my audio room,and started listening at rather spirited volume. I checked my SL app on my phone(I know,not great) but it was peaking at about 95db. It sounded nice and clear,but WAY too loud for my taste. Like I said,to each his own.

sttt, would be interesting to know what recordings you can play at those levels. I'm not sure I can come up with more than a very few listenable at
105 db.
 

A subwoofer crossed over at about 80Hz will provide the bass frequencies you are currently missing. Then your music will have more weight to it, sound fuller and louder.
A subwoofer will also relieve your Paradigms of providing all the sound, resulting in cleaner, more realistic sonics.

+1 lowrider57

A good sub to augment the bottom frequencies below 80 Hz would add weight, fullness and apparent volume. You would be surprised to find that you could back your overall mid to high frequency volume by 5db and still get the feeling of having a louder more engaging performance, while actually being a bit kinder to your ears. 

Jim 

gosta and all the others who responded.  I apologize for taking so long to get back with you.  Life gets busy.  I have more news regarding this.  When I play music through BluOs on my computer, using Qobuz and Deezer, it is louder than through the laptop and Pandora.  Elizabeth must be right about running Pandora through the laptop and the volume issue.
A couple songs I like to play after a couple drams of scotch; Artist=Rodney Miller, Airdance; song Belle of NewCastle/Scruff Neck.
Artist=Outlaws  song green grass and high tides.  These are two completely different genres.
I like piano, violin and acoustic guitar.  also Old time R&R.
I appreciate all of you who took the time to help me out.  Thanks!

Your meter lies. Get a new one. Very few systems can do a real 105 db comfortably. You do not have enough gain on your DAC.

Your meter lies. Get a new one. Very few systems can do a real 105 db comfortably.

I agree completely.

And that is especially likely to be true in the case of a stand-mounted two-way two-driver speaker whose largest driver is 7 inches, as is the case here.

Specifically, measurements of the speaker that were published by SoundStage indicate a sensitivity of 86.9 db/2.83 volts/1 meter, and an impedance that is around 4 ohms in much of the bass and mid-bass regions, where lots of energy is typically required. 2.83 volts into 4 ohms is 2 watts, which is 3 db greater than 1 watt. So the efficiency of the speaker is 83.9 db/1 watt/1 meter.

The amp has an IHF dynamic power rating of 260 watts into 4 ohms. A "dynamic power rating" means that an amp can only put out that much power on brief dynamic peaks, not continuously.

Plugging those numbers into this SPL calculator, assuming a listening distance of 9 feet and also optimistically assuming 3 db of "room gain" due to placement within "2 to 4 feet" of a wall, results in a calculated SPL at the listening position of 105.3 db.

That would only be on brief dynamic peaks, and it assumes that the speakers are not being driven so hard that their behavior becomes significantly non-linear, for example as a result of "thermal compression." Given the optimistic nature of those assumptions, and given also that the speaker has a "maximum input power" spec of 150 watts, expecting even 105 db from those speakers on anything more than very brief and very occasional dynamic peaks is highly unrealistic.

And there is no way those speakers could ever come close to 110 to 115 db. If fed enough power to theoretically reach those levels, their drivers would blow.

If you really want to reach those kinds of levels you’ll need speakers that have much greater sensitivity, while also being able to handle copious amounts of power, and being able to provide good sonics while doing so. Which most likely means **some** (not even most) large floorstanders. 

Good luck. Regards,
-- Al

mijostyn   I don't have a DAC.  I have two computers in the living room.  A laptop connect HDMI and listen to Pandora with the volume problem.  I also have a home built PC with BluOs playing over the Network Gb speed.  The home built one has good volume, the laptop does not.

almarg The stats you provided look about right from what I see.  That is right in the ballpark.  I like how it sounds.  Wish I had a bit more volume, but I am going to live with this.  I don't need incredibly loud volume except rare occasions.