No disrespect intended at all, just a sincere question: Are you sure you didn't have the two channels connected out of phase relative to each other, when you listened to the XLO's?
Regards,
-- Al |
Sounds like the XLO cables may be doing some good things. Moving speakers around (more toe in, closer together) and adding some absorptive room treatments at first reflection points may alleviate your SS problem.
Cables do make a difference in SS, I've heard the forwardness your speaking of many times. |
No, I,m always pay close attention when connecting speaker cables as any other connection, the wall of sound coming at me was confusing my brain, sounds very seductive but thing is too much of a good thing, and have good acoustic treatment, so don't thing is an acoustic problem, if is a problem at all,
put the MIT back and much more focus, everything felt back in place, very weird, with the XLO, is just sound coming from everywhere, but very little instrument delineation, like out of focus, will try to move things around to see if any improvement,forgot to mention that also using XLO signature3 interconnect replace pre/amp with cardas GR, and made things worse too boomy. |
What's the rest of your system? If the sound is out-of-focus, it sure sounds like somethings not in-phase. |
Maybe one of the cables was assembled incorrectly, with black and red interchanged at one end, relative to the other end?
Regards,
-- Al |
Tabl10s: my system
VR/vr4sr.spkrs
juolet Electra 150MK11, preamp
Quick Silver V4, amps
acoustic arts MK1 transport,
Kora Hermes.DAC
XLO sig3 I/c
MIT s1 spkr cable
ASC,acoustic treatment:
the sound is not out of Phase, is just that the sound stage,is overwhelming, believe me when I tell you that after a 1/2,hour listening session fills like just drank two large cup of coffee is like an artificial sound stage
cant' accurately place individual players on stage,
was playing Casandra Wilson,"belly of the sun', and she had two backup singer one on each side of the stage and ther voices felt 6" from my ears very artificial sounding,
like when playing surround sound on HT,
I'm in pursuit of real lifelike sound,
will make an in home audition this weekend with audio friends to get their opinion; |
A bigger sound stage may require that you listen farther back than usual.
When done right and listened to from a location with an amicable perspective, it should be a good thing.
There can be more separation between instruments or recording lines and more air and space within the soundstage which helps our ears pick up sonic cues that help flush out details and overtones better.
It can be like enlarging a photograph. With enough resolution to start with and accurate reproduction, patterns and details can be detected by our senses more easily. |
Mapman: good point, my listening chair is positioned about,
8 feet from speakers, maybe by moving back 3feet would make a diference, will try that if doesn't work the XLO will have to go, thanks, will post later with results: |
It sounds like your new cables have opened up your system. Probably time to rearrange your sweet spot. Without knowing what speakers etc. I wouldn't necessarily move further back. Try different toe in positions. I recently tried crossing over the sweet spot. The left speaker is aiming at my right should and visa versa. I doubt that the cables ruined the rest of your system. |
I associate a larger soundstage with increased resolution, always a good thing. I've never heard a too large soundstage, unfocused yes, but increases in depth, height and width have always been positive, the amount of immersion/forwardness can be exasperated by a larger soundstage.
You mention increases in detail, openness with the XLO,based on your description I think it is likely the MIT is failing to reach the full potential of your system in regard to detail and soundstage. I wouldn't give up on the XLO just yet.
Seems you're suffering from an unfocused, forward soundstage, you don't mention height, width and depth being a problem. Your problems with the XLO could simply be exposing issues elsewhere in the system. I've found different isolation schemes can help focus to a large extent, get your equipment off any compliant devices, use spikes and ball bearing devices. You also may have to try different cabling in the rest of your system in order to reduce forwardness. It could also be the XLO will never be synergistic in your system, still, I wouldn't give up on creating a larger soundstage. You can have focus, proper perspective and a large soundstage all in correct proportion, may take some work! |
Have you given the cables time to run in? I've heard un-broken-in cables and electronics sound the way you described. After they have been played in for awhile (20 to 100 hrs, depending on the cable), the soundstage perspective and details settle into the proper perspective. |
SOmetimes, also, it can just be your ears take time to adapt to a different sound stage as a result of some component change than they were used to before. A bigger soundstage should almost always be a better thing. You may have to tweak and adapt your listening perspective a bit to get used to it.
It took me a good month or two to adjust my listening to be able to get the enormous soundstage I created when I introduced the OHM 5s into the room they are in. It was so much wider in particular than prior, and so totally disassociated from the location of the speakers themselves, that I was totally missing the beauty of what was really going on at first when trying to listen to the speakers. The location of the instruments and recording lines had virtually nothing to do with the location of the speakers and my ears just did not get it at first. Though the speakers did take a while to break in, I think it was more it took my ears some time to "break in" to the new sound at first. |
I went the other way. I was in the verge of selling off my Plinius amp but the XLO Signature2 interconnect saved it. When I put the cable in, all the details, dynamics and soundstage come alive. Most importantly, it feels like I've added in a new subwoofer with the XLO cable. I've got two pairs in my system now. I would suggest what other posters have said in trying out different speaker placement before returning the cable. |
thanks, Mapman' tried repositioning my chair back 3 feet, and didn't help, may be as you said need to get used to the sound,
don't know how long it will take, but hearing instruments sound coming at you like suspended over your head don't think is a natural phenomenon that happens in real life music events : |
Hmm, soundstage should be mostly in front of you, not over your head. You have some interesting but perhaps unnatural things going on, perhaps due to room acoustics?
Synergy is everything. Not all good pieces work well in every room to every ones taste. If you don't like what your hearing and cannot tame it otherwise then you should definitely make a change or two again until things sound right. |
If the instruments sound like they are over your head perhaps your speakers are tilted back. Do your speakers have adjustable spikes? What are your speakers by the way? Try a higher chair. All of the above. ... |
Two things I would check; make sure the speakers are firing at the same point by using a digital level on the sides and back of the enclosures and on top of a board spenning the tops of the boxes to check that their height is exact. Next I would check the isolation of the Quicksilver amps ( they may need better isolation to extract as much clarity as possible) then I'd check the pre.
It is very possible the new cable has exposed something in your system and I would pursue this first before changing the cable. |
Almost forgot, the cable may be showing that you need to reduce isolation or change the material. |
I agree with Sounds_real_audio and Sns. Distance between speakers and toe-in worked for me. I had a similar issue after upgrading my preamp. In a small room, my chair was against the wall (couldn't be moved further away). Moving the speakers farther from the chair (closer to the front wall) would reduce the wonderful SS depth I had and just couldn't part with.
I experimented by moving the speakers further apart until the SS width cleared up the "congestion" that the enlarged SS created. It still lacked focus. Changing the toe-in gave me the focus. Speaker separation and toe-in interact with my room, so I had to go back and forth several times.
Once compensated for, the increased SS was much better than what I had before. More detail and life-size images.
Relax, have a homebrew and listen to some Marshall Tucker Band...
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You're getting good advice.
Playing with speaker orientation/location to lock in the new soundstage the way you want is definitely the first thing to experiment with before changing anything else. |
I used different thickness shims 1/16, 1/8, 1/4, 1/2 MDF to change heights so I didn't have to adjust spikes with each change, and for quick check I stand and change the height of my ears to find the height that seems best. |
In my experience your cables need to burn-in. A larger soundstage is a good thing but new cables will go in and out of focus as you cycle your system. New cables can take one to two hundred hours to equalise. After the cables come up,like others have said adjust your speaker placement. |
Juancgenao,
When ever I try new speaker cables I find I have to repossition the speakers because the sound stage does change with the new cables. You my only have to move them a little like change the toe in or bring them closer togeather. |
OK, Hevac1 thanks for you comments, after moving things around and experimenting with different speaker configuration,
removed my audience E PC,from my power conditioner and installed and old synergistic PC, that took care of most of the over bloated sound stage, lost some inner detail in the process, but much more focus and body to the sound,
having and audition this weekend, and almost guarantee one of my fellow audio friend will walk out of my house with the XLO.
fine cable, but wont' put anymore effort trying to change it's sonic signature: |
