Sometimes Less is More?

Had a Cary 300sei integrated with ProAc 1sc speakers. Room 12 x 13 the sound was magical. Remember Mapman to much sugar is not good for you sometimes less is more.

Yeah, every small speaker has huge bass that defies their size lol.

I'm not saying driver size is the only factor. But when you essentially double the driver size and add a midrange compared to a speaker that's already overpowering a room, common sense will tell you it just won't work. I had a huge peak in bass response in that room. It wasn't the speakers I had -PSB Image T55, as I compared their frequency response chart against what I had using a Rives CD and Rat Shack meter. No matter what I did, I couldn't flatten out the bass in that room. The T55s weren't the most bass heavy speaker out there. The F12s are significantly fuller sounding , as I've heard them side by side in a good room.

I really like the F12. If I had a room big enough that they could breathe properly, they'd be very high on my list. My current room won't let that happen (different room than the above described room, but not much bigger in terms of space). I've heard the F12 do well in a medium sized room.

I know this is side tracking the thread. Sorry!

i think sometimes more is less.

what do i mean ?

more components and tweaks sometimes degade the sound.

Kbark. I don't think the size of the low frequency drivers are the only thing to consider when your choosing a speaker for a small room. When we were having our new house built, I had to temporarily setup my system in a tiny untreated room, including some fairly large Revel Salon one's. These speakers are well known for there neutral nature, Many of my audiophile friends laughed on sight, but stopped laughing when they heard the sound. Only on disc's with over abundant bass was there a problem and leaving a door open to the room helped there. Many of the smaller speakers I've owned were voiced to have big bass but we all know by now how that works out.

Tmsorosk,

They were the F12. I stayed away because my PSB Image T55s with two 5.25" drivers were overpowering my room. The F12 would have been a disaster. I could only imagine that at the room you heard the F12s in was well treated. I wouldn't have been able to hang up too many treatments in the room I had due to many reasons. Taking the F12s out of the equation all together, there's no way Maggies would have ever worked, except maybe the MMG. The guy was just a douche for many reasons, not just that one.

Mapman,

Funny you should mention a Hummer. After I left the shop, I couldn't help but think it was like asking to test drive a Porsche Boxster, and the dealer telling me I wanted a Hummer instead, even after explaining why I wanted a small car.

Revel F15 is that a new model? The F12 with two little 8" woofers work fine in a small room. Heard them once in the smallest show room I've been in, great sound for a mini system.

"When I told him they were too big for that space, he rolled his eyes and said there's no such thing as speakers being too big, just turn the volume down."

Did he try to sell you a Hummer next?

"Hard to argue with that one....."

I'm sure someone here would.

I've always tried to keep my system as simple as possible. When the speaker fits the room, you've got very little to worry about. The speaker/room interface is critical IMO.

I had a jackass dealer try to sell me Revel Concerta F15 (I think, the one with three 8" drivers) for a 10x15 room. When I told him they were too big for that space, he rolled his eyes and said there's no such thing as speakers being too big, just turn the volume down. He then brought me over to see Maggies. I kid you not. I said "thanks for your time" and walked out.

one year i visited ces, and magnepan introduced the mg 20. it was displayed in a smallish hotel room at the golden nuggest.

obviously, the speaker needs space.

still, the sound was wonderful.

yes, there waas room for improvement, but i think, it is hard to ruin the sound of a great speaker, unless there are some unusual component mismatches, which can be avoided, or a really bad room.

if i like a speaker, i'll try to make it work, under less-than ideal room conditions,, because, i may prefer that speaker in the "wrong" room in comparison to other speakers set up reasonably well.

if i have a favorite speaker, i won't settle for another.

"one can't fit 5 Lbs. of sugar in a 1 Lbs. sack"

Hard to argue with that one.....

I think this quite obvious, after all one can't fit 5 Lbs. of sugar in a 1 Lbs. sack.

Sometimes less is more, more or less. We also find that the little system at the lake, ( Jadis front end Red Rose speakers ) can have something special. It is give and take, the smaller system has a certain magic, the big rig has impact and detail. Which do we prefer, usually the one we are listening to.

Agree Mapman, but on a slightly different level. I have a fairly large room 17 deep X 35 wide. I had towers which went well down into the high 20's. Sounded good. But now I have Cain & Cain Abby's. Sound great.

I don't think less is more - a speaker that is a good match for the room is more. It's difficult to find and not always the one you think it will be. Especially in difficult rooms. I'm glad you were able to find a good match.

My 'sunroom' is outside and around the corner from my front door. Its open all around and above as well. Nothing would work there since its technically outside.

All kidding aside, my only room to listen in is my living room in my apartment which is about 10' X 15' and about 8' in height. Being in the same boat, so to speak, I'd agree wholeheartedly that less is more due to room overloads and all that's negative about smallish rooms. My speakers only go down to 40Hz or so but it sounds great. One doesn't need much to achieve great results when one operates in the nearfield.

It also helps to keep the operating budget in a realistic realm as well.

You nailed it, IME in small high reverb rooms like your sunroom work well with a small scale setup at lower volumes especially. I've had a theory for quite sometime that alot of the gear changing going on is because the rooms are being overpowered with bass and/or treble. Had some bipolar Mirages back in the day and in my first house they sounded like sh** bass and treble wise due to the plaster walls and odd bass wave action and no imaging. In the same room a pair of Kef 107s were freaky real. Not until a had a large room with breathing room did the Mirages not offend. I kind of chuckle when fellas are selling something that I know has serious potential and the pictures of the room clearly explain why.