... low grade copper will not be able to charge/discharge the higher frequencies and you’ll have high frequency roll off.
Could you please explain these "high frequencies?" Isn’t a power cord set at 60 hZ in the US, by definition?
In addition, PVC insulation will act as a restriction (i.e. dielectric resistance) that robs current.
How can insulation "rob current?" If the PC is measures low resistance - which would be factored into its amperage rating - wouldn’t that be sufficient?
Good point about the screw terminals. I would go a bit further to say that what you say goes for ALL terminations regardless of cable used.
I remember having that exact experience with the female PC connectors. I don't remember the brands, but I seem to remember one was a well known brand that didn't seem to work too well.
I would also be leery of using depending on solder to make up for a connection, that is, if you can't get a tight connection with the screw terminal, should pay extra close attention to how you solder it to ensure it doesn't fail for the same reasons.
Oh, and adding into the previous comments, low grade copper and PVC type insulation will definitely affect sound quality, as low grade copper will not be able to charge/discharge the higher frequencies and you'll have high frequency roll off. In addition, PVC insulation will act as a restriction (i.e. dielectric resistance) that robs current.
Here's the challenge with using Romex as power cord. What I have found through testing and experimentation is that the frequency response of your equipment is definitely affected by awg of solid core wiring of your power cord. I have built multiple power cords using different size conductors (16awg, 18awg, 20awg, 22awg). In all cases, I braided the conductors for hot/neutral/ground. All power cords had multiple braids which equated an overall size of 12awg for the power cord itself. I have found that with larger awg conductors (such as 16awg), I actually lost high frequency response. 18awg was okay, but with 16awg the sound started getting very "low fidelity". Also, there was a blare/smear in the midbass/midrange (likely because of skin effect on the large 16awg conductors).
When I went to using 22awg, I found that I had way too much emphasis on high frequencies and I lost power in bass/midbass. I actually found that 20awg was the perfect center point where I had enough bass/midbass power and still enough high frequency response.
If you choose to use 12awg or even 14awg romex for your final power cord, I think you will suffer in the results. Most power cords are bundled stranded copper, with high amount of tiny strands (likely 28awg or 32awg strands). I never had good results with stranded power cords, even using the ultra high grade OCC copper Furutech power cords. It just didn't sound right.
That's why I like Audioquest as a power cord material. They typically use 21awg for HOT conductors and 19awg for NEUTRAL conductors. And it's always solid core conductors (except for their cheapest "X" series). It's a good mix that averages out to my "20awg sweet spot".
Here is one of the problems when solid wire in sizes like #14 or larger are used for a power cord. Even if the male plug uses a screw and terminal plate to terminate the solid wire, and, even when the screw/terminal plate is tight against the solid (straight piece) of wire any physical movement, bending of the cable at the plug, can cause the wire in the connection to become loose. With the IEC female connector usually a single set screw tightens down on the solid wire. Any movement here causes an even looser connection. A loose connection can cause arcing. Arcing causes AC noise. Noise = distortion. It can also cause voltage drop across the arcing connection.
The only sure way to stop the connections from becoming loose from bending at the terminations is to solder the terminations after they have been tightened down. .
There's no reason to think that using high grade copper for a power cord would result in better power/sound, but yet, some get good results.
No reason to think that having a power cord be of better quality than what is in the wall should give better results, but yet, some get that.
Only thing that I know for sure, is that the only way to know is to try it.
I would also suppose, that maybe much is dependent on what a particular house is wired with in the first place. I wonder if lath provides some sort of shielding?
" Romex will outperform any manufactured PC" Not true, Romex uses low grade copper, has no shield and in some system configurations, would introduce noise. I have had that experience.
Romex is not designed, manufactured, or Listed, to be used as a power cord. It is designed and Listed for use as mains power wiring fastened/supported rigidly in place. Romex, NM, cable can only be used in places/locations as approved by the NEC, (National Electrical Code). .
Nordost likes to use 16awg conductors. Whether or not they are solid-core, I'm not sure.
I like to take an Audioquest NRG-4 power cable and chop the ends to re-terminate using Furutech FI-28 rhodium plugs for IEC and Male. The stock Audioquest power cable is very nice, but the gold-plated connectors just do not give me enough resolution for my tastes.
DIY was brought up as an option, and romex was also brought up by at least one other...mainly, because romex IS an option. And definitely solid-core.
As far as that goes, options would also be buying AC wire (same as in romex, just not in the extra bundling sheath), or, even stranded. Seems bulk was also brought up/used in this thread as well.
To the point, buying bulk isn't just cheap, but one could easily make the same cable in stranded or solid and see if they hear a difference.
One might experiment with different plugs as well.
DIY is also an option for me. (my devices draw 15 watts only (1 streamer, 2 mono blocks ))
None of the above manufacturers use Romex cable in the manufacture of their power cords. None of the above manufacturers use a solid core wire larger than #18awg. Many use a combination of LITZ small diameter awg solid core wires bundled together under an insulated covering combined with a few #18 solid core insulated wire/conductors. Example. Look at the picture of the cable. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14XL2 .
Solid wire made for electricity can take bending, and we DO bend it quite a bit installing it when we build, but obviously, it eventually would break. Wouldn't use it for say, a guitar amp that gets constantly plugged and unplugged. When in doubt, make a new one.
Fire danger comes from the terminations-that's where the heat will be if and when they are overloaded. Insulation won't save you or change that, but the quality or suitability of the connectors will. Using the right connectors will make it so any fire or heat will be in the plugs and NOT in the connectors. And the right connectors should say what gauge they are intended for.
Thus, while making a cord isn't proper code, you have essentially made your own electricity built to code. the risk may be the same, but it's now YOUR risk.
Long time ago, I had a conversation with Mr. Chang of Lightspeed.
His opinion was romex was the best. Makes sense when considering that's what is (often) in the wall, which he also mentioned.
I made many, worked great. Sometimes a little improvement, sometimes none, but never seemed worse. Not like having a PLC, with often is major improvement.
Not saying here that fancy power cords can't make an improvement. Naturally, once a plug in in the chain, it changes anyway. Just made more sense to me to spend more on the PLC side and use romex than spend on the cord.
I bought a used AudioQuest power cord, very early one. It had solid core conductors. It was no better sounding then, than any OEM powercord. (but at that time I did not own the $$$$ equipment I do now) I threw it away years ago. as it had be bent and folded many times, and could have easily become unsafe. For personal use I see no reason to avoid solid core AC wires. As long as one understands the dangers of overbending the wires used. 05-15-2018 10:52am
Aren’t you using Pangea Audio power cables? Note the solid core individually insulated copper conductors. Also note the Litz solid core wires/conductors encased inside an insulated covering. http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PGAC14XL2
yping"solid core PCs are illegal unless someone knows otherwise"
Well they are either legal or not legal and the fact of whether they are legal is fully independent of any awareness on the part of any individual as to the legality of using solid core wire in this particular application but I am not aware of any law that would forbid they’re use in such a use however not every stupid idea is illegal and this would be one example of that.
Yes it does. The site description again refers to the sheath which is not connected to earth ground.
I contacted the manufacturer who confirmed that it is a 3 wire design. He
has clarified this on the site.
True, my bad
Has nothing to with the current. It has to do with the insulation breaking down under the 230V higher voltage.
Are electrical fires different in Austria than in the rest of the world?
Thank you for the warning! What makes the insulation withstand 230 Volt? the thickness? For clarification: Austria is not a 3rd world country, and I dont live there currently.
A 22AWG neotech hook up wire is rated 600V and 5.4 Ampere. Its not rocketsience. I dont see why a 22 AWG wire should not be sufficient for 240V and 1 Ampere. I know its not rated, but as i am an expat who lives in 3rd world countries I dont have to worry...
Has nothing to with the current. It has to do with the insulation breaking down under the 230V higher voltage.
Are electrical fires different in Austria than in the rest of the world?
I thought about DIY too - a CAT7 ethernet cable with 8 22AWG OFC solid core conductors, shielded. They are arranged in 4x 2 twisted pairs.
A 22AWG neotech hook up wire is rated 600V and 5.4 Ampere. Its not rocketsience. I dont see why a 22 AWG wire should not be sufficient for 240V and 1 Ampere. I know its not rated, but as i am an expat who lives in 3rd world countries I dont have to worry...
I saw that silver solid core power cords from crystal cable and cabledyne have no ground wire. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having no ground cable?
If the piece of equipment, that the power cord will be connected to, requires an equipment grounding conductor then the power cord must have an equipment grounding conductor. (The IEC male inlet on the equipment will have 3 pins. Hot, Neutral, and equipment ground.)
If the piece of equipment is Class ll Listed (Has internal double insulated AC power wiring) and does not use the equipment grounding conductor, (the IEC AC mains inlet connector is only 2 wire), then the power cord, AC plug, and female IEC connector, only needs to be 2 wire.
I thought about DIY too - a CAT7 ethernet cable with 8 22AWG OFC solid core conductors, shielded. They are arranged in 4x 2 twisted pairs. I could use a twisted pair for Live/ground or Neutral/ground and get AWG19 effectively or use the shield as ground conductor and use all wires for live/neutral only and get AWG16 effectively.
You cannot use Ethernet data cable. The voltage rating of the insulation covering the conductors of the wires is not rated for 230V. Just a guess for your country, Austria, the minimum required voltage rating is 300 volts. .
I saw that silver solid core power cords from crystal cable and cabledyne have no ground wire. What are the advantages and disadvantages of having no ground cable?
I thought about DIY too - a CAT7 ethernet cable with 8 22AWG OFC solid core conductors, shielded. They are arranged in 4x 2 twisted pairs. I could use a twisted pair for Live/ground or Neutral/ground and get AWG19 effectively or use the shield as ground conductor and use all wires for live/neutral only and get AWG16 effectively.
Any recommendation?
My components draw less than 1 Ampere only and I would use that wire only for the low power components. For the power cord that feeds the distributor block i would use a 13AWG Audioquest NRG-2.
Nice to see a thread about solid core conductor power cords - I find they make a worthwhile difference compared to stranded conductors, insofar I'm able to tell with the testing and comparisons I've done. Mine are DIY 12/15AWG installation wires bought at the local "Home Depot"-style warehouse (Bauhaus). I stripped the individual (and insulated) solid core wires from the outer sleeves, and then twisted the lead and return wires with some 3 twists per 4" (ground wire, where it may be used, is twisted in the opposite direction), and terminated each end with IeGO 8055 pure copper connectors. The twisting itself should act as a mild electrical shield, and I use no further insulation or shielding. The installation wires are quite cheap (usually sold with 3 or 5 conductors under two outer sleeves), but use high quality, very pure copper - at least here in Denmark, but I suspect the same applies in other countries. I wanted to avoid alloys in the connectors, and therefore opted for the IeGO pure copper plugs both for the wall outlet and components. The sound through my setup with these power cords seems dynamically uninhibited, pure and with very little inherent signature. Try them out cheaply without dedicated connectors to begin with, and see whether they're to your liking.
billshenefelt Usually only wire under 18 gauge max diameter is solid. Heavier that that in a solid wire is likely fixed location like hookup wire in a circuit or fixed AC wiring in your wall. Many cable outfits call things solid copper core, meaning it is copper not an alloy, but not single strands of a heavy wire gauge.
Usually only wire under 18 gauge max diameter is solid. Heavier that that in a solid wire is likely fixed location like hookup wire in a circuit or fixed AC wiring in your wall. Many cable outfits call things solid copper core, meaning it is copper not an alloy, but not single strands of a heavy wire gauge.
If you want much of the benefits of solid core, but with flexibility? Litz wire would give you that benefit. Pangea combines solid core with litz.... both worlds in one cord.
While there are other testing laboratories, they're going to test the product for compliance with UL Standards, as compliance with UL safety standards is what allows you to buy product liability insurance.
When was the last time anyone has read a thread where someone said their solid core wire power cord failed? There is a ton of them out there. Anybody ever heard of a failure? I guess if a person deliberately tried to make a connection fail they could cause it to fail. Of course the same would be true even with stranded wire conductors if abused to the point of failure. How often do you guys over bend back and forth you power cables at the connector ends?
It’s a power cord. It’s not a drop cord. It is not designed to be used as a drop cord.
Solid wire power cord. Lets keep it simple. Here is a Link to an older AudioQuest AC12 power cord. Just going from memory it was first introduced in the early 1990s. https://www.google.com/search?q=audioquest+ac-12+power+cord&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&am...: Note the 8 solid copper #18 gauge insulated conductors. 4 white conductors and 4 black conductors. The equipment ground is the green #12 stranded copper wire located in the center of the 8 insulated #18 solid copper wires.
The 4 white insulated #18 solid wires are wired in parallel making it the neutral conductor. The equivalent wire gauge is #12awg.
The 4 black insulated #18 solid wires are wired in parallel making it the Hot conductor. The equivalent wire gauge is #12awg.
As for some law that says a power cord must be safety tested and Listed, I don’t know of one. In fact I don’t of any law that says audio equipment must be Listed.
Then how come Audioquest describes their new super power cords’ conductors as “solid.” For example, the Hurricane high current power cord, much reviewed recently by Fremer at Stereophile and by several right here on Audiogon, is described as follows on the Audioquest web page. Is the Audioquest dude going to jail?
The reason there is an aftermarket of power cords is precisely because solid core wire is illegal for use in a power cord. Romex is extremely high performance, which is why you really don't have to worry about what's in the walls (if that is what you have), and why that last 6' of power cord can make a difference (because it has to be multi-stranded).
But the liability of making a power cord out of romex is profound, so no-one actually does it.
So, in short (pun intended) there is no such thing as a power cord made of solid core wire.
Uh, nobody said there wasn’t something to it. For one thing, solid core power cords can be extremely stiff and might not even work in some situations. For another thing, metal fatigue failures can occur when the power cord is bent back and forth too many times. These two issues do not usually apply to power cords with stranded conductors.
There may be something to the concerns of using solid core wire for power cords. Note, for example, that Morrow Audio uses solid core wire for all of their cable products except their power cords. Just sayin'.
jea48 - hate to digress, BUT.... the PS Audio cord is made with thicker than normal STRANDS. Solid core would be simply 3 conductors ( one hot/one neutral/ and one ground). Since the PS Audio has multiple conductors per leg, it is NOT a solid core conductor cable.
Solid core would be simply 3 conductors ( one hot/one neutral/ and one ground).
Even more humorous - here is the description of that power cord from PS Audio's website:" Inside the AC5 is one LCC hollow conductor for the treble region, a large LCC rectangular conductor for the midrange and multiple gauges of LCC bundled together for the bass.". Forgive me if I am wrong, but don't power cords ONLY handle one frequency - 60 Hz?????
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