So many great golden era DD tables out there, what do you recommend for $1000?
Pretty much as the title says. Have been looking for a while for a decent DD table to add to my lot. Have bought a few lower end ones and ultimately been dissapointed. Now I know there were/ are literally hundreds of choices from the Japanese Golden era of DD tables. Looking for suggestions from actual owners of solid DD tables up to about $1000 . I have read and read but nothing substitutes for real experience. This would likely not be my primary table, my Garrard 401 has that position for now.
(Mine came with a DA307 tonearm, which is sitting in a shoebox somewhere.)
Don't underestimate that arm to be considered junk. It is an excellent arm with a still low price on the market, it has not suffered the costly folly of many vintage pieces and is better mechanically and constructively than vintage arms that are now overrated and sold for hundreds and hundreds of dollars. I don't want to mention names so as not to hurt the sensitivity of some owners but I want to give a small example of many positive features of this tonearm (there are several): the rubber that separates the barrel from the counterweight of the DA307 even after 40 years from its construction is perfect if you look at it. does not crumble, does not break and is still perfectly elastic .... how much rubber used in audio products is so durable?
A comment on the "bi-directional servo": The TT101 (and the TT81, if Halcro says so) certainly have exceptional speed control, but when JP Jones eventually fixed my TT101 and got it working, his comments on the "bi-directional"-ness of the servo were of a skeptical nature, if I recall correctly. (One would think that the term indicates the platter is not only speeded up, if too slow, but also retarded, if its running too fast. Not sure that really happens.) I cannot recall the specifics; maybe JP will comment if he is around. Anyway, it doesn't matter, because the point is that the system works superbly although very electrically complex.
Thanks, Halcro, for chiming in with your opinion on the TT81 vs TT101. I really like my TT101, but I have no way to know how the two compare.
Uber, After deciding at one point to sell the DP80, because I wasn't using it (and because who needs 5 turntables?), and then not being able to get much money for it, I just recently put it back into operation. I was not as fond of the DK300 plinth as Chak apparently is, so I replaced it with a 65-lb slate slab, and I mounted a Triplanar on the slab to work with the DP80. (Mine came with a DA307 tonearm, which is sitting in a shoebox somewhere.) I recently put the DP80 ensemble back into regular use for MM cartridges (or other high output types). So now I am back up to 3 turntables feeding my upstairs system. And 2 for the basement system. I know this is nuts, and I fear for my heirs who will not even know how to run all the equipment. One problem that arises is I cannot keep 5 cartridges happy; they like to be used often to sound best.
This guy always has a few nice DD tables. He always recaps them and goes over all the electronics so you get a nice machine. Worth checking him out.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRwg7OGjAQM
I have a Pioneer QUARTZ PLL Electronic Full Automatic PL-630 DD turntable and I upgraded the headshell wires with ortofon LW-7N headshell wires.
I also upgraded the tonearm wire with CARDAS tonearm wire and the RCA turntable cables with KAB/CARDAS Spiral Air Litz cable with ETI RCA connectors.
This thing is built like a tank at 27 pounds and in mint condition and is very quiet when playing lp’s or 45’s. I’ve been meaning to put it up for sale for about 4 months now but just haven’t got around to it yet.
I assume the main difference between the qla7 and ql7 is just that one is auto the other is manual.
I think you assume correctly Uber. My son loves the feature on his QL-A7 which at the end of each record, lifts the tonearm and stops the platter. It doesn't return the arm to rest so there's no real complications to go wrong....😃
Of course there is.....🤗 Just Download the Service Manual for both from Vinyl Engine.... It's best to obtain technical information directly from the Manufacturer rather than Vintage Knob or Vinyl Engine which are often in error....both with each other and with reality....🥴
Hey, it just occurred to me, I am the original owner of a 1977 Technics SL-1700. Still with its original Stanton 681EEE cartridge- complete with its original wood box and paperwork! The dust cover is gone, the cantilever is bent, the bearing is dry- and it still sounds better than a CD player! Wasn't going to sell it but you've been looking so long thought I would help you out. So go ahead. Make me an offer!
I’ve owned my Denon DP-1200 new now since mid-later 1980’s. They are very affordable and I still am very happy with it. Had it RE-capped about a yr ago, that’s a pretty incredible service record.
Uber, As a true Victor Fanboy who owns both the TT-81 and TT-101.....let me introduce you to the VICTOR QL-A7 which I bought for my son and which I compared directly alongside both my TT-81 and TT-101. Both the TT-81 and TT-101 incidentally, have Bi-Directional Servo Control-FACT. For much less than $1000....you can have one of the best sounding DD Turntables from the great Japanese Victor Company....INCLUDING a very fine arm. Take your pick HERE Good luck.
Lewm. Pretty sure if you listed your dp80 right now at $1200 it would be sold before you had closed your browser! The only ones around right now are all in Japan and $1000 just for the motor, then need a plinth and arm so honestly at least $1700 I think.
best-groove, So mainly you object to the cost of the PBN version of the DP80 and to the probability that when you go to sell it, you won't make a profit or get your original investment back, which is also true of almost any new audio product. That's OK, but it's not the point.
Dear @yogiboy : I think that in some ways all audio items are ( in good shape ) audio toys and from this point of view the 60L is an audio toy and very good Denon TT.
and this toy weigth is 13kg. Till today I do not knew a bad Denon " toy ".
Check in that link the " alto scan " brochure and you will know what that " toy " can offer to any one. Maybe is time that you could recovery it from that basement. Was years ago when you gave it to your syster but through the time I can think you made some up-grades to your system that could make a difference in your way of thinking.
@lewm : specs? well you have to make your home work. Anyway specs can’t tel us the whole history but when you are comparing against other Denon items has a meaning that the item it’s not a low-fi one.
@uberwaltz found out a second unit on ebay at even lower price, you can buy it and can make some $$$$ in the re-sales.. As I said before, Denon never disappointed me.
best-groove, Don't you think the "engine and electronics" ARE the DNA of any turntable, including the DP80?
Surely, but in this way it completely distorts what the Denon wanted to convey to the supporters of the brand. I do not doubt that the new project is better than the Denon project of 40 years ago, but the price to pay would be high and a likely resale so heavily modified could be long and difficult in finding a new owner or switching to a second hand.
The original DP-80 plinth is pretty decent, it does not looks like a cheap plinth from that era, the finishing is nice, the color is nice. Much better than any Victor stock plinth for example (imo). Adding AT-616 pneumatic footers is a must for such high quality machine. No questions that DP-80 is a nice DD turntable, but i just want to say that stock plinth is also very nice (if the condition is NOS like mine). Here is an image from the manual with DA-401 tonearm, i was shocked how good this arm can reproduce music on my Luxman with Grado XTZ. Quickly became my favorite tonearm for high-ish compliance MI/MM carts. The only problem is a price tag: with some nice tonearm on original plinth it can be $2-3k easily for complete Denon turntable in perfect condition.
best-groove, Don't you think the "engine and electronics" ARE the DNA of any turntable, including the DP80? IMO, the major deficiency of the original product was exactly its plinth (and tonearm, but that's a different argument). By re-doing the substructure from A to Z, Peter has transformed the guts of the DP80 into a true high end product. Which sadly is out of reach of the OP's budget. If you're just objecting to the cost of the re-done DP80, that's too bad. I'd love to have one of the PBN versions, if I were not already more than supplied with turntables. But as to the notion that one could not find an original DP80 for $1000 or less, I am a little dubious. A few years ago, when I thought about selling my completely "done" sample, I got little interest at around $1200, indicating that the market could not bear that price. With patience and a little luck, I think it could be done. If the OP wants a tonearm too for his price limit, then all bets are off.
Yogi I had read on audiokarma that the plinth was crappy but could be braced and mass loaded to increase performance substantially. But if rest of it is sub standard as well? I saw both kd550 on eBay but not much info out there on those either.
@uberwalz That’s what I’m sayin’. The plinth was cheap and the two arm wands were just as bad. If you are looking for a serious table within your budget there are two Kenwood KD-550s with tonearms included listed on ebay . I have owned the Kenwood KD- 500 with a MMT arm and a KD-600 with a Grace 747 arm. You will not go wrong with these Kenwoods! Here ya go! https://liquidaudio.com.au/kenwood-kd-500-kd-550-direct-drive-turntable/
Years ago I bought the Denon DP-60L. It was one of those why did I do this moments? It had many bells and whistles but it was like having a toy. I gave it to my sister and it is now a dust collector sitting in her basement!
I do not doubt at al that whatever DD TT I end up buying ( if at all ), it will NOT be the pinnacle of DD TT. But hopefully about as good as it gets at the 1k price break I have self imposed for a complete working unit cw plinth and tonearm. Rules out a few of the top liners that have been mentioned although it is fantastic and much appreciated to see such enthusiasm and knowledge here!
this (ihmo) turntable no longer has the dna of the DP 80 appears completely overturned .... is it only the engine and the electronics? The elaborations very pushed forward like those of the Artisan Fidelity or Kaneta on the Technics Sp 10 even if improving the performances leave a little perplexed.
If you think the TT101 is mechanically and electrically problematic, think about that 40-year old vacuum platter of the TT801,
at least and fortunately the 801 only has this little motherboard and a small card for the power supply (bridge diode, regulators and filter capacitors unlike the 101 where total chaos reigns in the 2 motherboards and are decidedly more complex, making the repair of those who must work extremely difficult.
Uber, Difference between TT71 and TT81 is probably an audible shade. Difference between TT81 and TT101 is probably a more audible shade. You might ask Halcro, who has had a TT81 side by side in his home system with a TT101. But I doubt there is much if any difference in cost on today's market between TT71 and TT81, so why not go for the latter, if you must have a Victor and cannot afford a TT101 (or don't want to deal with its possible problems)? Best-groove seems to be recommending the TT81, too. For me, the DP80 would be the choice over any Victor except the TT101. And TT101 vs DP80 would be a toss-up. I own both and use both. (TT801 is simply a TT101 with vacuum hold down. If you think the TT101 is mechanically and electrically problematic, think about that 40-year old vacuum platter of the TT801, complete with decayed rubber gaskets and its associated outboard pump.)
Peter. Thank you but it is not really a case of saving up. $1000 is the line I drew in the sand for a spare second machine ( well 4 th if you count the others I already have, lol ).
At this stage I am not prepared to splurge any more.
i really should not even be looking but you know how that goes.....
lewn with $ 1000 you do not buy a TT101 nor a QL 10 for this I recommended a complete QL 8 or just the engine of a TT81 .. it’s just a matter of budget.
@totem395
sorry then I was wrong ... I read a lot in this forum too and probably got drunk with exact and contrary readings. Owner of a TT71 TT101 and TT801 yup :)
From what scant info I can find on the net it would seem that although the plinth looks substantial it really is not. A little flimsy with a nice Rosewood veneer. A fair bit of bracing and additional mass should work wonders.
Apparently the earlier models like the dp50 had Much more meaty plinth.
I don’t know where Raul got the information that the "specs" for the DP60L are better than those for the DP80. Perhaps he is even correct, but the DP80 was regarded by Denon as the top of their commercial line, bested only by the DP100 and DP308, which were more intended for professional and studio use. The second most desirable of the commercial line, or maybe a model of equal performance, is the DP75, with the DP60 behind those two. (Raul used to tell me that the DP75 is also superior to the DP80. I’ve seen no data to justify that statement.) There were no universal standards for how to measure turntable specs back in those days, and it would depend upon how Denon made the measurements and in what year, since there were some changes in how to measure S/N, etc, after 1979. Turntables marketed after 1979 will seem to have better specs because of changes in the method for measurement. This does not mean that I think little of the DP60. It would be a fine choice, too.
I think Best groove et al are correct; the SP10 Mk2 did not have the MN6042 chip. I stand corrected on that. Best groove, Do you know what is special about "bi-directional servo"? I think it's 90% marketing. But the TT101, which also has bi-directional servo control, is a great turntable. I'd put the TT81 on par with maybe the Denon DP60. TT71 is not in the ballpark. These model differences did mean something, after all.
Haha. As always, "best recommendations" from our Mexican member to buy from Japanese ebay seller who can’t even speak english and who has 13 negative feedbacks only last month and about 50 negative feedbacks over the year!
Many thanks sir, it is on my highly consideration list! And I do thank you for the link! My big concern on that particular listing is the seller and their very high negative feedback rate, 50 negative feedback in the last 12 months is totally unacceptable to myself, heck 1 is 1 too many! My eBay feedback is 1702 with ZERO negative or neutral feedback.
@uberwaltz : You are losting a rare opportunity to own the 60L that its specs are better than the DP-80 and with an additional very good advantage over it and this is that the 60L servo is bi-directional not even Technics units have. The TT is at a very good price.
I don’t need other TT but if I need it I already boughth it that 60L with my eyes " closed ", no quesrtion about.
What are you waiting for?. Yes is your decision, of course. I just thinking in " high voice ". That’s all.
Lew, there is a little confusion on JP's site but as I understand it, the 6042 replacement chip is for the SP-10 Mk3 and SP-15, not the SP-10 Mk 2. It would be best for anyone interested to check with JP before ordering.
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