I'd keep saving and get the new 1200, nothing like that classic look and a warranty. Very few people post in these forums that they got screwed on a vintage TT, they only post when it was a killer score.
So many great golden era DD tables out there, what do you recommend for $1000?
Pretty much as the title says.
Have been looking for a while for a decent DD table to add to my lot.
Have bought a few lower end ones and ultimately been dissapointed.
Now I know there were/ are literally hundreds of choices from the Japanese Golden era of DD tables.
Looking for suggestions from actual owners of solid DD tables up to about $1000 .
I have read and read but nothing substitutes for real experience.
This would likely not be my primary table, my Garrard 401 has that position for now.
Thank you.
Have been looking for a while for a decent DD table to add to my lot.
Have bought a few lower end ones and ultimately been dissapointed.
Now I know there were/ are literally hundreds of choices from the Japanese Golden era of DD tables.
Looking for suggestions from actual owners of solid DD tables up to about $1000 .
I have read and read but nothing substitutes for real experience.
This would likely not be my primary table, my Garrard 401 has that position for now.
Thank you.
279 responses Add your response
@Uberwaltz I read that some QL7 owners inserted Dynamat-type damping material in the empty spaces under the plinth, significantly improving the sound of the turntable. Pay close attention to the 4 feet of the plinth, the rubber will probably be compromised and broken after all this time as well as the damping rubber between the barrel and the counterweight of the arm .... I managed to save all 4 feet with a job of patient restoration. This after the rubber repair: https://i.postimg.cc/GpX3yCp6/DSCN6033.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/yYnR7k4z/DSCN5962.jpg |
Vegasears. Think I said I was underwhelmed with a couple of my DD TT purchases early on, lol. But you are likely correct, nobody likes to admit they were wrong! Bestgroove. The rubber for counterweight is a question I asked the seller and he confirmed was in good shape and pictures show it sitting level not drooping. Feet may well be a different story but can always use aftermarket isolation feet possibly. We will see. Raul. Cannot buy them all and on this go round I chose the QLA7. No sleight intended to fans or advocates of any other table. |
04-09-2013 1:09amDear friends: Just for curiosity I gone to what the seller of my JVC TT posted on the ebay auction I won for 400.00: |
I support Halcro’s enthusiasm for JVC/Victor DD tables. On his enthusiasm I decided to try a QL-Y5. I was able to pick up a "junk" QL-Y5 sans-arm for practically nothing here in Tokyo and then custom mounted a MicroSeiki MA-505 arm. Yes I loose the JVC arm automation, but the MA-505 is an excellent vintage arm. I am beyond pleased with the choice and it is definitely the best table combo I have ever owned (Rega P3, Systemdek IIX/900 RB300) and sounds comparable to some really nice setups I’ve heard elsewhere. The QL-Y5 is the more price-down version of the QL-Y7 with a slightly lighter platter and plinth and less automation. One thing I like about the 1980s Y5/Y7 is that the circuit board is simpler with more integrated circuits than the 1970’s TT71/TT81 which are massive complex boards. It seems that there many broken TT71/TT81 out there but the Y5/Y7 generation seems to have less troubles. https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/ql-y5.html https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/ql-y7.html I think both of these 1980s JVC/Victor tables are excellent "hidden gems" Some others Victor models which I’ve heard people love https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/ql-a75.html https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/ql-a95.html https://audio-heritage.jp/VICTOR/player/ql-y77f.html |
the circuit board is simpler with more integrated circuits than the 1970’s TT71 naaaah ...impossible, I don't see in the TT71 a complicated board, just a messy wiring. :) https://i.postimg.cc/05cYb9Mt/P1010219.jpg |
What about the audio technical direct drive tables. I have one in my basement system that serves me well. I am using a $200 at cartridge and it sounds pretty good to me. Are these considered to be horrible turntables? The total cost of table and cartridge was less than $500. Good luck in your pursuit. |
"Actually I would prefer a mostly manual DD TT, a lot less to go wrong with aging electronics." Find yourself a nice DP59L and let the good times roll...The old Denons are hard to beat. I have (2) DP52F, a DP61F, and a DP59L.. Finding the 61F is tuff, it was the top fully auto that Denon made. The 52F is almost as bad. However, the 52F sister unit, the 51F does shows up on that "other site" regularly enough... I've had my first 52F since 1982 and it's never missed a beat... |
I love my JVC QL-Y66F. I have 5 turntables, including a Clearaudio Emotion with the Satisfy arm and a Hana SL, but the JVC is my "main" table. I had to stuff some plasticlay inside the plinth and replace the bouncy feet with some highly damped aftermarket ones, but it sounds great. It's really noisy when it starts up and you it definitely does not have a "black background" while it's running, but it sings when it's playing music. I have a Kiseki Blue NS on it and use a Manley Chinook for the phono stage. I paid $545 for the table itself. The
Mnpctech feet were $100. I also have a Realistic LAB 440 with a Denon DL-301 MKII cartridge that is no slouch. |
| Post removed |
Dear @jessica-severin : That QL-A95 makes that the 101 looks as a really mediocre TT ( as a fact it's but this for other time dialogue/discussion. . ). I have too the information of many others JVC/Victor TTs and from other manufacturers through my japanese bibles ( hard paper. ) but I never gone to those fully integrated TTs pages and is surprising what we can found down there like this Pionner that came with the same tonearm that comes in the $$$$ Exclusive P-3 ! ! : https://audio-heritage.jp/PIONEER-EXCLUSIVE/player/pl-70lii.html Thank you for your real contribution for all of us. Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. |
Uber - I used
Plast-I-Clay Modeling Clay. I bought 8 lbs. from allartsupplies.com for a little over 20 bucks. I didn't use it all and gave what was leftover to my grandaughter, so it was a nice "two-fer"! The QL-Y66F stock feet are small and springy. I have springy floors and it was a bad combination. The MNPCTECH feet are big and heavy and seem to be well damped. I did both mods simultaneously, so I can't say which one had more impact, but before the mods I could not turn up the volume very loud at all without getting feedback from airborne vibrations. Now I can play as loud as I want with no negative effect. I also had to tiptoe across the floor, and since the mods, I don't think I've ever made the tonearm jump from footfalls. |
Dear Raul, thank you. I love digging around audio-heritage.jp I'm not sure how many of these higher end 1980s Japanese TT made it out of Japan, but they were popular here and they made many variations of models. There are 3 Pioneer PL-70LII on yahoo auction japan right now but they are all expensive in the 160.000yen ($1600) range. Like other countries the audiophiles always seem to fight over the rare top-end models while the step down models (which are often almost as good) go for much much less. Jessica |
Raul, The PL70LII is pretty well known to be a stealth bargain, if you "study" pioneer turntables. It only lacks some of the fringe features, including the massive suspended plinth, of the Exclusive P3. You're correct about the tonearm, too. Sometimes you see them for sale on "Hifido", the Japanese company that sells a lot of vintage stuff of all kinds, both in their real stores in Japan and by mail order. They are completely reputable, and they know how to pack and ship a turntable. If anyone wants to look, google "Hifido English". Unless you read Japanese. |
It's one curious case where the tonearm alone (from a P3) costs much more than the same tonearm, if you purchase it along with a turntable, like the PL70LII. In my opinion, the PL70LII with that tonearm is a screaming bargain at $1600 (price on Yahoo as quoted by Jessica above). I've seen the tonearm alone advertised for as much as $6000. |
If you want the best sound, I recommend a Well Tempered Classic. I had one for many years before getting a Well Tempered Reference. The difference in sound between the two is minor. The Classic completely destroyed the VPI HW-19 Junior in sound quality that I compared it to at the time. You can find the Classic on the used market for about a grand. |
the fully automatic denon dlp-47l is a masterpeice of engineering and a joy to behold. I have one, along with a pioneer pl-518, restored, that has auto-return. both of the dd tables are built like tanks and have never had any issues. good luck. ps- have used both mm and mc cart on both. pps- my denon may become available soon as I try out the new technics pl-1500c. |
@lewm, I agree with you that the PL-70L II is a great bargain in vintage DD territory. I purchased one for around $1000 at HiFiDo several years back, but it's hardly ever on sale and prices have gone up since. For some reason the Exclusive P3 is offered more frequenly, but at a much higher price of course. That table is in a different league, as well it should be. The tonearms on both tables are very similar, but not identical. Both are 12" length and have interchangeable straight and S-type arm pipes. They were also available as separate items. The P3 arm is called EA-10 and is dynamically balanced. The PL-70L II arm is called EA-70 II and is statically balanced and is then fitted with a manual armlift (the version in the PL-70L II has a motorised lift and automatic shut off). Topclass audio in Hongkong has both arms on offer at the moment for $3800 and $2000 respectively. For a moment I even considered buying the latter and mounting it on my Micro RX-1500, it's that good. @uberwaltz, You might also consider the PL-50 L II, which is one step down from the 70 and equipped with a 10" version of the otherwise identical arm. That should also be a great choice and most likely still within your budget. |
| Post removed |
Raul. Yes it is true I have bought the QLA7. However I am still always interested and intrigued by the plethora of great vintage DD TT still out there. All great knowledge for the future. The Japan only market is certainly fascinating and I did peruse HiFiDo in English as well. A dangerous site I fear..... Lol. |
Greg, which MNPCTECH feet did you get for your QL-Y66F? I had a look on their website and they didn't list JVC/Victor. I think the feet on my QL-Y5 screw in with machine bolts so maybe the ones for the Pioneer would work for me.https://mnpctech.com/#/product/1004 Are you able to adjust the leveling of the table with these feet? |
Came across this Post by another Contributor in the past:-
|
I was going to suggest a Goldmund Studietto (with the JVC motor only!) however I think it might be almost double your budget. Also they are hard to find in pristine shape. I own two of them and I'm going to list one soon (a showroom demo I never used. Nothing beats them, once you remove the 3-spring suspension and replace them with sorbothane pucks ;~) They have a slightly concave platter, so a Goldmund Reflex Clamp is a 'must have'; and Goldmund Cones take the whole thing up another notch. Those two accessories will cost $350 - to $450 if purchased separately |
Hi I love DD turntables and have owned most of the great/legendary Japanese DD tables of the 70's and 80's. At $1000.00, you've got a healthy budget IF you know what to look for. Unfortunately, most of the tables that have been recommended to you are selling for far more than your budget. But, there are some excellent tables that you can acquire at your budget that people don't really know about or dismiss. Here's a small list you should keep your eyes open for: Kenwood KD-990: This is a fantastic table that can compete with most of the best Denon's, Pioneer's and JVC/Victors that others have mentioned. This is a totally integrated deck that features a unique and effective plinth design that you don't see until you start spending serious bucks. Google it, and you'll see what I mean. Dudes in Japan know all about this table and have installed additional arms of great value and collectibility to the other posts of the table. These guys are on to something with this table, because no one puts a $3000.00 Audiocraft or Fidelity Research arm on a table that isn't up to snuff. Kenwood KD-750: This table is a bit more well-known here in the states. It looks a lot like the KD-990 I mentioned above, and ships with a good tonearm that was designed by Kenwood and built for them by Jelco. Unlike the KD-990, the 750's arm can be easily removed and replaced with a better arm, which I did when I installed the Audio Technica AT-1010. That arm took an already excellent table to a whole other level and it will easily best the new Technics SL-1200G, which is a $4000.00 table. While the Technics spins with measurably (if not audibly) greater accuracy, an the Technics arm is pretty good in spite of what the haters say, the AT-1010 is simply superior and competes with arms like the FR-64 and the Audiocraft AC-3000. Sony PS-8750: This table is the 3rd best table Sony ever made, and that's saying something. Fantastic motor, dead silent, smooth and ships with the Sony PUA-1600 tonearm, which uses a combination of aluminum and carbon fiber. Even the head shell is a fully realized design, also being "carbon-clad". The arm also uses a sapphire bearing, and with the right medium compliance cartridge can sound amazingly good. 9" and 12' versions of the PUA-1600 are often found selling by themselves for $600.00 or more dollars, and our friends in Asia often times place this arm on other tables from other manufacturers, which is high praise. Luxman PD-441: The little brother of the renown PD-444 (which I own and won't sell), this table is a bit of a reach at $1000.00, but you could get lucky and find one at or around that price, and probably with a damned good arm on it. These tables usually shipped without arms, so the end user had to source one themselves, and that typically meant that a damned good tonearm would be used. Yamaha GT-750: The little brother of the GT-2000 (which I also owned), there still is a lot of the same DNA between the tables, including an excellent and ridiculously underrated 12" transcription tonearm. You have to look on Japanese sites like HiFiDo, but they've usually got them and in good shape. Some of the things that all of these decks I described have in common are the following: relaxed yet dynamic presentation, excellent pitch, low noise floor and REMOVABLE HEAD SHELLS! Others like to have hysterical arguments about head shells. I prefer to leave the dogmatic to their dogma and listen for myself. Believe me, there are awesome head shells out there that can seriously maximize the performance of any of these tables/arms, and you can quickly and easily swap multiple carts as compared to a uni-body tonearm. Anyway, good luck in your search. |
The GT1000 is or was the "little brother" of the GT2000. The GT750 is the new baby in the family, with no teeth. Every opinion I have ever read is to the effect that the GT2000 stood alone in the Yamaha line-up. Even the GT1000 and certainly the GT750 were made to a much lower price point; they may look similar, but there are big differences from the GT2000. I have also seen all these variants, side by side in one case, during my several visits to Tokyo. In the flesh, the differences in quality of construction are obvious. I admit, however, that I have not heard the lesser models. Last spring I passed up a really mint, like new, GT2000L, which was for sale at ~$1800. I was sorely tempted, but sanity eventually ruled, since I have 5 TT's as it is. Anyway, it was a beautiful piece just to look at. Not a scratch on it. Probably would have cost $500 to $600 to ship to me on the East coast USA. Removable headshell is a "feature" of a tonearm, not necessarily of a turntable. With some ingenuity, one can usually replace the factory supplied tonearms on these units. Back in those days, every tonearm on the market had a removable headshell. It was not until the advent of the Triplanar and probably a few others I can't think of that we had the choice of a fixed headshell, and as you know, some think that's a major improvement (in rigidity), not a negative. |
Anything DD goes as far as I am concerned Greg. Be interesting to hear your thoughts on it. My second system TT is a Sony PS-LX22. Which is about as cheap and cheerful a DD TT as you can get on paper. But with its original Sony MM cart running through my vintage Sanyo receiver it sounds pretty darn good. MUCH better than a Kenwood KD2100 belt drive TT that was just flat in comparison with supposedly superior vintage AT mm carts tried on it. Grand total cost of $38 shipped from fleabay.... Lol. |
They will do custom orders, as per contact page,
https://mnpctech.com/contact-us.html
|
My QLA7 was delivered this morning, hooray! Of course I had to try it as is right away! So just sitting on the rug on my floor, with its original rubber platter mat and supplied AT mm cart I gave it a MoFi record of I, Robot by Alan Parsons. Freaking spectacular! Can't wait to see what it can do on a proper stand and a decent platter mat and a vintage MM cart. But it's off to Dallas unfortunately for work for the rest of the week so no more until Saturday. .😞😞😞😞 However a question. It is Japanese market 100v. What is general thoughts on this? Use a good step down or? My home power is about 121v so a good 20% over voltage. Thx. |
