hi, does anyone know of other brands interconnects and speakers cables that have a house sound that's similar to MIT cables? but without those MIT network box? MIT cables sound relax, a tad laid back, yet clear and no veil/curtain between performance and listener, dynamic are natural without harshness.
Maybe english is not my first language. With my knowledge and insight in audio I have proven over and over again that it outperforms any other way audio is being used. Sound quality never lies.
The best and most convincing sound always will win, it is that simple!!
But you will never find anything near unanimous agreement as to what is the "best and most convincing sound." It is partly objective and partly subjective It is in the ear of the beholder.
It is quite easy to explain: I only sell a 3 dimensional intimate and papable image. I use all the parts what influences the emotion of people.
Audio is comparing, first I explain how I work and what my sound is. After this you give a demo with the people their own music. After this I send them to many other shops as possible. Because I want audio to be as open as possible.
Then they come back, often you hear the stories about how low the other demos are. Most sets in audioshops are always 2 dimensional. These are facts again.
In all shootouts I did ( hundreds now) between 2 and 3 dimensional sound each person chooses for 3 dimensional sound. This is only a part of Tru-Fi. But an important part for how music influences our emotion. I never met any person who prefers a 2 dimensional sound.
I n 2007 I started to use all the parts which are important for highend in the mid price range as well. This has become very succesful.
hi Bo, with due respect... with your extensive experience and understanding of cable properties (characteristics), can you recommend me cables that would let me hear music as if i'm in a grand hall listening to the majestic sound produced by full scale orchestral or big concert (pop/ R&B modern music)? i don't wish to hear exactly how the recording is made because often it is done in a (big?) recording studio instead of a grand stage. i want big open sound with clarity, pinpoint imaging yet with separation and musical energy, not the congested sounds from a recording studio. Thanks
i don't listen to small scale music, solo, quintets, vocals, jazz, chamber music do not interest me, hence, timbre accuracy is not important here. i don't need to hear the difference between clarinet and flute , horn and trombone, oboe and cello but i need to hear every individual note coming from every instruments. thanks
I have the MIT MH750 ...no boxes...ca 1988 I think, shotgun configuration. I believe they were the original MITs, released before the "boxes". Haven't used them since 1993...:). Back in the days, I paired them with Martin Logan CLS. Sounded great.
Per OP...
"
MIT cables sound relax, a tad laid back, yet clear and no veil/curtain between performance and listener, dynamic are natural without harshness."
You don't understand what I mean. First of all it is not about recommendation.
I sell a sound, this means that the parts in a set builds the sound what I want to create, The sound is the main thing.
I am only interested in properties what each part owns. For example I use the properties Audioquest can give. This way it is a different way of using audio.
I prefer Audioquest and Purist Audio over most other brands because I use their blacklevel for my sound. They both are exeptional in individual focus of instruments and voices. The same about differences in height of voices and instruments.
I compare many brands all the time. But I focus on all the properties you judge sound for. With speakers, amps and sources I do the same.
But at the end I have a more complete sound with a lot more emotion. It makes audio a lot more effective. Each part o your set owns properties and togheter they create the sound and stage you hear at home.
When you understand the properties you can use audio so much more effective.
Most speakers and even amps and sources are very limited in building stage depth and width. Even when a cable is exeptional in this part, it is not able to use this property it owns.
That is why you need to know the properties of your speaker, amp and source before you can choose the brand of cables.
I give you an example: I have test and done many shootouts with cables. Also between MIT against Audioquest and Purist Audio. Most people who use audio as a hobby are often not able to listen to all different parts you judge audio for at the same time.
So what I do is using a number they know well and take one part you judge sound for at the time. This makes audio a lot more easy to understand for people who use it as a hobby.
Purist Audio powercables are one of the best in the world. They outperfrom any powercable of MIT. I have proven this over and over again. The are more open in the mid freq. than any other brand. They have the best blacklevel you can create with a powercable.
Beside the deep and wide stage, instruments and voices become more palpable.
When I compared the MIT interconnects with the Audioquest Wild and Wel, it became clear that the Audioquest can reveal more details and have a much sharper and individual focus of instruments and voices.
Beside this you could hear a better separation in depth and also more diversity in heights as well. There was one part we prefered of the MIT Oracles. It was more pleasant in the mid freq. But.......this I can adapt very easily with other parts of a set.
At the end the Audioquest and Purist Audio are more complete and more precise.
The Wel and Wild both revelaed more decay and more space around instruments and voices compared to MIT Oracle.
Instruments and voices become more intimate compared to MIT. This part influences our emotion also a lot. There are different parts what influences the emotion of us.
That is why I use all the different parts what music can own.
Pc123v, i have never heard MH750 , so I'm unable to give any opinions. This MH750 maybe a branch off the spectral high speed broadband cable series, but I'm guessing only. Bo, i agree with you that each cable due to its engineering design have their own characteristics, strength and weaknesses. But you're missing the point here. You are seeking TRU-FI, and I'm seeking to build my own sound base on my preference/taste. The music event doesn't have to be faithfully reproduce in a accurate manner so long as it has the sonic presentation that touch my emotions. Different people interpret music in different ways, what sound to you as inspirional may sound terrible for me. You had successfully influence some clients who may not know what they want or what touch them emotionally. But i know what i want in a musical presentation even if it could sound wrong to you. i.e, usually a pianist would be playing in centerstage, with other instruments backing up because the piano is in the limelight. But i don't like hearing panio in the centrestage, instead i wish the harp would sound more clearly because its music notes are soft and easily get "cover up" due to its locaton at the rear stage. So MIT cables may not fit your needs but it sure fit mine to a great extent. Unless you tell me audioquest have the same wide, layered big sound as MIT , i wouldn't consider Audioquest or PAD, no matter how precise or the separation of instruments that these brands are able to delineate. Nevertheless i thank you and on behalf on other Agoners too, because you also offered your deep understanding on audioquest cables too.
The problem in audio is that at shows, shops, distributers and at clients sets are incomplete all the time. This has nothing to do with personal taste.
What is missing is not there. These parts are essential for the emotion of music. That is why I use different kind of numbers to explain to people what each part does with your emotion.
Another example; Last years I was in Munic at the Highend show. Most sets were 2 dimensional. This is the quality of audio what people can create these days.
In Munic I asked the people who gave demos if they could tell me the name of an artist? Often they didn’t know. Audio is not about music anymore, but only about selling.
Even when you ask simple questions they can’t answer it
anymore. In 2015 I met many people who were screwed by other shops. Over 10 years audio will be a lot smaller than today.
People who work in audio lost their connection with music and also the passion for audio. This is a sad thing to see. Last year I talked to a person from England and he had the same experience as I have.
How is the knowledge in audio in the US compared to the past?
I am running MIT Oracle 3.5 series Cabled and Oracle PC's on an all Krell system...listening to your favorite music through it would likely make you piss your pants! Let me put it in Bonese lingo...I make the 3D sound amazing. Sound is real and you feel and see it..people are amazed at how all the parts put together are more than one. You can experience true 3D sound only when I put parts together that let you experience real true sound...only my special ears and stereo parts I sell can create this sound!
Just getting back to this thread after taking a break. Great stuff.
Mr Bo, thank you. You have the true deep understanding of music and wires. You did the research and made the comparisons, and now you are bringing the truth. I will throw away my MIT and go back to AQ, hallelujah!
Just finished listening to Shostakovich's Symphonies no 8 and no 5 on my system. The soundstage was wall to wall with floor to ceiling height and massive dynamics yet emotionally gripping in its delicacy and expressiveness! The 5th on SACD was recorded at The Kimmel Center in Philadelphia. My brother and I were there...you can hear us yelling Bravo repeatedly at the end of the performance as it fades out. My only concession is that it didn't sound small and etched like it did through the AQ's I had purchased from Music Direct...maybe if they came with ear muffs I could have lived with them:)
Colorado...although I did have a listen to the WEL cables as well. I should also mention the I have tried, owned or Demo'd at home many various cables/designs over the years. MIT's Magnum and Oracle lines deliver so much more of the music to my ears that it is not even close. Accurate tone, dynamic freedom, low level detail and a soundstage you can swim in are some of the obvious attributes. A symphony sounds majestic and to sly correct in pitch and timbre...just thrilling while remaining organic sounding without roll off in frequencies. Highs have weight and expression, midrange is full and full of life while the bass is simply stunning in tone and texture.
@dave_b Thanks. Do you feel that one needs to have a complete loom of MIT (Interconnects and Speaker ) to hear the full benefit? Or if try the speaker cables first that would be sufficient? Also, compared to AQ with their DBS technology. Do modern MIT cables/interconnects have a similar low noise floor?
Full loom preferable to obtain what I described, but if you wish to get a feel for some of what is possible then speaker interfaces are best. Yes, very low noise floor after 2week 24/7 break in! I use an Oracle AC2 PC on my amp and Transparent MM2 on my Cipher. See 6 moons review of Magnum 1.3 loom...very accurate review.
And still people make the same mistakes over and over again. If you read exactly what I wrote, you know that it is not about a brand.
You still want to compare AQ against MIT. First you need to understand the properties before it makes sense to buy a brand.
People create their set by buying brands and parts. But when I ask a simple question to all these people: can you describe all the different properties of all the parts in your set?
The answer is: No.
This means that it is a big guess how the sound and stage is created. That is why I have done thousands of tests since 1998 by finding out all the different properties of each part.
This makes audio so much more effective. At the end you always will have a more complete sound with a lot more emotion. I can garantee you that every single person will choose this. I have proven this for many years now.
Colorado is as cable what is out of production for 2 years now. You need the latest cables. Because the new cables use the technique of the latest Wel.
Even the ’new’ Water is more precise than the ’old’ Colorado.
If you use AQ the right way, it will give you more different properties to use. But....the problem in audio is that people don’t know the properties, so they will not be able to use them all.
The latest Wel Signature is the best interconnect I have tested in almost 18 years of time in many aspects. The big difference with the best Oracle cables is that silver is better in timing but also reveals details which are not there with the Oracle.
With intimate acoustic recordings you also hear the big difference in ’blacklevel’ There is more space around voices and instruments and they are better papable as well.
I never auditoned any interconnect what is able to let you hear such an accurate difference in height of instruments and voices. This also effects the harmonics of 2 or more voices togheter. The latest Wild interconnect was the first interconnect were I noticed this part.
The Wel goes a lot further in this part. The Wel also let you hear more reverb details and the space of a room compared to the Oracle cables of MIT.
When you compare the individual focus of instruments and voices between the latest Wel Signature and Oracle cables the differences are huge. The presence of voices and instruments is with the Wel so much sharper and stand more loose from eachother.
I didn't say that cables who are older are not good. The new ones use techniques what has some big advantages over the older ones.
At this moment the biggest way to loose accurate tone and timbre is using a separate DAC with USB. Even the people who developed separate dacs for brands agree this part.
At shows this mistake is made over and over again. There is almost no diversity in the middle frequencies.
Most sets sounds clean without any emotion. This is based on the fact that by using USB you loose diversity in the middle freq.
In 2015 I had contact with a few technical people who develope DACS. They said; USB is not a good choice for audio. And you never will get a clean transport of 0/1. This is what you can audition very easily.
This is the main reason why many Highend owners still use a CD player!
Bo, something we can finally agree on...separate DAC's etc. have not sounded as good to my ears as a great one box design! There is hope for us AFTERALL, just not in cable land:()
Guess what Bo? I decided to change my speaker cables afterall......drumroll......to......M.....I......T.....Magnum M1.5 Biwires!! Yay for me Were you expecting something else Bo? Maybe cables with an A or a Q in their name and some silver inside? Silly Bo
@dave_b Wow. These look like very impressive cables. So MIT has two different lines for retail and online sales? After reading these thread I'm now curious about trying MIT speaker cables.
mdp632, if you wish to know more and want to explore MIT cables further I would recommend contacting Joe Abrams at Equus Audio online. You will not find a more knowledgable person about all things audio or a better source for the best deals in MIT cables.
A well balanced system is based on focussing on all parts in a set. In 2015 we did a lot of research in electricity and smog. Even in these parts we made big improvements in sound.
Only when you are aware of all the different properties each part of your set owns you are able to use them.
Insight in properties of cables is important as well. You need to understand why the stage and sound of your set is what you hear.
When you know the properties of each part in your set, you will understabd why the sound and stage is what you hear.
This makes audio a lot more easy to understand. Most people change a part and don’t know the properties of the part they change. And even don’t know the properties of the older part.
Then audio always will be a big guess. When you bring in those parts which are missing, each set will be more complete. And will sound better.
Audio is all about testing and comparing all the time. And doing this over and over again. This way you collect information about the differences between all the parts. And which properties they own.
When you are aware of the properties of each part of a set, it is much easier to create a more balanced set.
This set will outperform any set which is incomplete. This has nothing to do with personal tatst, but with facts.
Because each set what owns all parts what influence the human emotion is prefered by each single person.
That is why I give a demo and send these clients to listen to other sets. They always come back with the same information....over and over again.
When you are not aware of the properties of each part your set is in almost all situations incomplete. For me it is very easy to explain this to people.
Just by using their well known music and focussing on 1 part you judge sound for. Just part for part. Then it becomes very clear for each person.
I understand that this is a different approach to audio. But I can and have proven that this is far more effective than the 'old fashion' way of creating an audio set!
If you want relaxed, laid back (?), clear, dynamic, natural without harshness, I recommend older CARDAS designed around 2000. They take a long time (100+ hours) to break in, but in the end sound great IMO. They were tuned in and designed on Magnepan speakers. I have owned the 6 foot maggies for 40 years FYI.
Cardas Golden Cross speaker
Cardas Cross
For a slightly more neutral sound try Burley Wire cables from Reno Hi-Fi. They are made by a guy that works for Pass Labs and are cheaper (two 8 foot lengths $695). Unknown but great. No break in needed.
The big advantage with Cardas and the older ones especially you never can go wrong.
In the past I visited different people with Wilson Audio speakers. Many played with Krell amps and preamps. They played best with Transparent.
Because the speakers and amps needed these cables tot get the control over the mid and high frequencies. Even with Kimber cables the overall sound was less compared to Transparent.
At that time I sold a lot of Nordost. Even in the Wilson Audio with Krell sets you got a much faster and controlled low freq. And even more details in the high frequencies. But......the lack and loss of the involving middle frequencies was unacceptable. So Transparent was the best choice.
But I wanted to let them look further. I hope you understand that you loose in the low and high frequencies details which are there. When you use different amps and speakers you would not have these limitations. That is why you can create a superior endresult when you know all the properties. You can think 3-4 steps further to make decisions earlier.
People often test and buy cables at the end. And use it for tuning. I use it as a part of the whole set. This way they even become more important. I gave shootouts to make people understand that you can create a much higher endresult when you use a much better cable. Even with less expensive amps and sources.
When you know the properties of amps and sources as well, you also will understand ealier which cable brand you can use.
I bought my first MIT cables about 30 years ago at a garage sale not because I had preconceived notions of improved sound but because I thought they looked really neat. I now have another pair that I acquired through a trade simply because I needed spade connectors, again, not expecting any magic. Consistently, on these forums I’ve admitted to a relative inability to discern subtleties in sound modifications so consider myself less than an expert when it comes to differences in sound related to conductors however constructed.
However, when I installed these Terminator 2 wires even I heard an increase in bass output. Although I’m not a big lover of bass I was convinced if they were responsible for this change, whether or not a positive outcome for a given individual, it must be modifying the delivery of other frequencies as well. I decided to look for an explanation of these “boxes” and viewed a you tube presentation by MIT. It was very informative but what I primarily came away with is that all conductors make changes in signal accuracy and without modification a non-linear signal not representative of the source is what the speaker sees. It seems the main purpose of the box, then, is to recreate a linear signal.
If, in fact, it does that then we should hear a more accurate representation of what was introduced at the source. Even though I don’t necessarily hear it myself all wires must change the nature of information being delivered. I believe, then, that for those who have the sensitivity to hear the subtleties I described will choose wires that match their taste, not because they are more accurate, but because they simply best match their tastes. Now that I THINK i get what MIT is saying, I’ll chose accuracy over other considerations for choosing wires and I’ll keep the MIT wires in my system.
My setup used in this example is as follows: Shanling CDS100; Theta Casablanca preamp in stereo mode; Ayre V3 amp; Martin Logan Ethos speakers
When I used to sell MIT cable I found the only other brand that sounded similar was Tara Labs. I used my influence as a salesman to get in every cable that I could get my hands on in order to stay competitive, and to find the best cable for my system of course.
Tara Labs sounded almost exactly like MIT. We didn't switch to them though. The price / performance ratio was identical. The huge benefit of Tara Labs of course was the lack of gigantic boxes.
I'll leave out all the details of electronics, speakers, and other cable brands. I must say though that I learned that Transparent cable don't put their networks in parallel with the signal. They put them in series. Therefore they're not at all similar to MIT. In fact I would never give them the time of day.
On the first page of comments one is from an MIT distributor and he has the correct history between the two companies.
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