Signalyst HQPlayer - Is it worth the upgrade?

HQP is fantastic - particularly the new version. I use the M1 Mac Studio to host HQP (with an Intel NUC hosting Roon) and usually upsample to either DSD256 / Sinc-MGa / AMSDM7Ec 512+fs or to PCM 768 / LNS15 / Sinc Long. Best to use a Network Audio Adapter (NAA) with it. I have two: a SoTM Trifecta + SBooster and also a Sonore opticalRendu setup.

There is a trial version of HQP available. The barrier to entry is the relatively unfriendly GUI / manual for the newcomers.

I run HQPlayer and Roon on an M1 Mac Air laptop to an Innuos Zenith as NAA.  The sound quality of Innuos Sense is better than Roon (most seem to agree with this), and HQPlayer from Roon is a step up again.  I do find HQPlayer sound quality is even better without running from Roon, but with what Roon brings to the table I usually use both together outside of very critical listening,  With the M1 Air I oversample to DSD256 and the sound quality improvement is well worth it for me but will be system dependent.  

@sworksone, Will HQPlayer player run on an M1 Mac Air laptop especially if you are upsampling to DSD 256? I thought HQ Player requires lots of CPU POWER for DSD upsampling? Thanks.

If you use HQ Player, without Roon, how is the user interface work?  Is it easy to use? 

@reg19, @sworksone 

Thank you both for chiming in! Inspired by your feedback, I ordered a mini PC computer equipped with 11th generation Intel Celeron Jasper Lake quad-core N5105 processor (up to 2.9 GHz), Intel UHD Graphics and Windows 11 Pro 64-bit. It will be here tomorrow and I am going to spend next couple of days setting everything up.

@hgeifman I can upsample from 44.1 to 192kHz PCM to DSD256 with most HQPlayer modulator / filter combinations and to DSD512 with some, but I personally prefer DSD256 with some of the more demanding ones.  This is with an 8GB M1 MacBook Air.  The HQPlayer interface is functional but not in the ballpark of Sense / BluOS / Roon.  Roon through HQPlayer is amazing.  It might be the fact that I’m running both Roon and HQPlayer on the same M1 laptop that I notice an improvement running HQPlayer alone - not sure as I haven’t been able to test this.

Hey Lalit-

Have you by chance read through the many threads/posts by Miska and the members at Aphile Style? I know there are more than a few Merging owners there.

HQ Player Software

Why don't you check for yourself - HQPlayer has 30min trial, and after that you just restart the app to continue listening. Plenty of time to evaluate. 

Also, your sentence "actually compared Roon vs HQPlayer or using HQPlayer exclusively" doesn't make sense. HQP works WITH Roon, as addon, and does upsampling, even though Roon has its own upsampling DSP, but HQP is much better. So those 2 apps can't be compared directly. 
Sure, HQP can also be a player, but its not really its selling point, it can't be compared to Roon, not even close as a player or music catalog. 

Benefits of HQP solely depend on your system, what kind of DAC you have and will it benefit from the external upsampling, does it prefer DSD or PCM, do you have powerful enough computer for DSD, whats the resolution and transparency of the rest of the system... So, you just have to test it your self, opinions about HQP setup here are very individual and will be very different from what you'll hear. 

@designsfx 

Thanks for the link. I will definitely check it out, looks like lots of good info there. 

Update: 

I got my HQPlayer up and running as of yesterday.  After 6.5 listening session and few adjustments with default filters/modulators, I found my favorite tracks through HQPlayer clearly had more texture, tangibility, richer tone and detail vs Roon. I was skeptical going in but this is indeed a very nice upgrade over Roon (audio). There was no hint of superficiality and edginess that I experienced through Roon…..no listening fatigue whatsoever with HQP. 

I tested lot of my of favorite tracks ranging from 44.1kHz to 192kHz, streaming from Qobuz and my local files, they all sounded more lifelike through HQPlayer vs Roon. As far as DSD tracks, I didn’t like what I heard. To my ears, the DSD tracks sounded compressed…it could very well be the filters being used. 

Moving forward, the biggest challenge I see is finding the optimal settings between Filters and Modulators with different resolutions and as little impact to the original bits. For now all I can say if you love Roon and stream via Qobuz, you gotta hear HQPlayer in your system. 

My total outlay so far, $525 (mini PC off Amazon plus HQP License fee). Mini PC is currently powered through stock wall wart. I will add JCAT Optimo 3 Duo LPS in the mix once I gain better understanding on gamut of filters/modulators included with HQP. 

Late to this string but was doing some research.  I tried roon+HQPlayer and Audirvāna.  I was so impressed with HQplayer I bought the desktop version but after checking out Audirvana there is no doubt in my mind when it comes to clarity, texture dynamics etc. Audirvana is better to my ears.  I highly suggest trying out the trial.  It has its quirks - no convolution built in like roon and hqplayer but it is clearly better than roon and tidal and qobuz apps in how it presents the music and  it works with dlna so it is more versatile than both roon with roon cert endpoints and hqplayer naa.  I feel bad I dropped near $300 on hqplayer but hoping they will let me trade it for hq player embedded which works with  dlna to get the best two of the three apps and will be dropping my roon sub as soon as translate some my playlists over.  Just wanted to share my experience.

Did you try all possible filters? I have been following the AudiophileStyle forum too and understand that there are tons of filters you can apply. Might be you want to reach out in that forum and identify the one that might surpass your expectations. Now that you already invested so much, why not give it a shot? If there are folks here who have achieved what they like with HP Player, hope they read this thread and share their filter settings with you.

I am interested in trying this, sounds fun. What would my topology be?

considering: I have Roon Running on an SGC i5. I also have installed HQplayer on the i5. My Bryston BDP is the current Roon endpoint. Then My DAC.

I stream The Qobuz

Slowly figuring this out.  Got HQplayer added to Roon and it appears as an end point.  I suppose now I need to see if one of the USB ports on the Sonic transport has USB out?   

When I try to play a track roon says it can not connect to the HQplayer.  There is a note on the Roon help pages that indicate you have to configure HQP to "Allow control from network". But I dont see that setting in the embedded version I have on the SonicTransport?

@jbuhl that would be the small globe that you need to select. I'm sure you have this, but just in case, here's the link to the Roon HQ Player Knowledge Base, which briefly discusses this. I have to admit, it took me a while to navigate the setup process with HQ Player. 

@jbuhl I'm also interested in running HQP on my sonicTransporter i5. I was under the impression that HQP is a resource hog and the i5 might struggle to keep up. Please keep us posted how it works out for you.

I can’t find the small globe to change the setting. It does not appear in the Sonic Transport interface. Remember the ST is a headless computer controlled via a browser.

I installed an HQPdcontrol app on my iPAD and got that connected but I dont see a way to set the "allow network control".

I got Roon to recognize HQplayer and it appears as an endpoint and when I kick off a track it appears to be streaming as the meters fluctuation are moving beside the track but the progress bar at the bottom in the music control pain does not start progress from 0_______2:00. its like it can’t determine if the stream is being consumed.

interesting none the less.

@jbuhl if you haven’t already, you need to download the HQ Player Desktop from Signalyst which can be found here. If you scroll all the way down the webpage you can find the desktop downloads. Once you open the HQ Player Desktop you’ll see the globe and can work through the Roon HQ Player Guide. Definitely a little confusing. 

@toro3. I dont think HQPe runs with a desktop app.

All a moot point I think as I just found out from Andrew that my endpoint does not speak the NAA protocol. Unless HQPe speaks DLNA I am dead in the water.

@jbuhl gotcha. I tried, but then I thought this may be a case of the blind (me) leading the blind (not necessarily you). Andrew would definitely know! This is where I previously got held up with HQP - streamer not speaking the NAA protocol. 

Wanted to revive thread in appreciation of HQ Player. I am in awe of what it has been doing with FLAC files upsampled to 512 DSD. I was gravitating more to streaming for the past couple of years. But with the HQ Player, I have been looking more to listening to my albums. It had Qobuz integration and I will give that a shot soon.

@lalitk , I am a bit perplexed with your experience with DSD on HQ Player. Are you using it still?

@milpai 

thanks for reviving this thread - it’s now highly relevant for me.

My DAC sounds better decoding DSD than PCM. My current path is Auralic Aries G2 streamer>Auralic Sirius G2.1 processor>T+A SDV3100 dac.  I use the Sirius to convert all files (both stored on a NAS and streaming Qobuz) to DSD 512 natively. It sounds very good. 

My questions revolved around complexity and utility of HQ Player. My dac has a built in NAA. Do I understand correctly that I could put Roon Core on a PC along with HQ player, settle on conversion and filters and just use my iPad for library management with the Roon interface - and be done?  I really dislike tinkering when I want to listen to music. Set and forget is the beauty of my current set up - but it’s also more boxes, cables, etc. 

I previously had Roon but it didn’t sound as good as Lightning DS - the native app and OS for the Auralic gear I own. But I loved the interface. I’m wondering if I could get back to the Roon interface, perhaps get an upgrade in sound and retain the simplicity of just listening to music (after getting it properly setup).

Any experienced users - Is this feasible or a pipe dream?

Best,

@milpai 

Not anymore, the external PC I bought to run HQPlayer proven to be very laborious. The HQPlayer software kept going to ‘sleep’, so I gave up and went back to Roon. Thanks for reviving this thread, I may look into this one more time. Hopefully there is a better way to integrate HQPlayer with my Merging +player. 

I run Roon core on custom server using Euphony operating system. Euphony has the ability to run HQPlayer inside Roon in both 30 minute free trials or purchased full version. In my setup I prefer running Roon sans HQPlayer in 'bridged' mode, where  Roon core is on the custom server, Roon Endpoint on my OpticalRendu streamer. HQPlayer simply sounds more 'processed' or hifi like vs my favored Roon only setup. I also minimize any of the 'extra' processing Roon provides, therefore, none of their inferior to HQPlayer dsp, no volume leveling, no volume control, no or throttling of their individual tune or library analysis.

Its been my experience that all this 'extra' processing only emphasizes the digital nature of digital, Yes, there were certain aspects of sound that seem improved in the short run, especially when my digital setup wasn't fully realized. But over the years as my streaming/digital setup has improved to where it now competes favorably to my pretty nice vinyl setup, in other words now finally sounds fully analog, I don't want any semblance of a 'processed' or digital sound to reappear. Based on my experience I now judge HQPlayer as benefiting digital setups that need band aids to cover up for deficiencies somewhere in streaming or full system chain, Get your entire streaming chain in order, this means all the way from internet service through dac, and of course we also need to get our systems and rooms in order which further negates the need for dsp. If you don't need 'help' with resolution, transparency, tonal balance, timbre, in room frequency response at listening position, dynamics whats the point of HQPlayer? Sometimes less is more.

@mgrif104 ,

That DAC you own is a level above the DAC 200 and HQ Player can only take it higher, per my experience. I am new to this whole HQ Player setup and not using the NAA feature. Have you tried the AudiophileStyle forum? I would like to know about this feature (for future) and can post it there. BTW, your system is awesome, yet simple at the same time.

@lalitk ,

I have always admired your setup. Very meticulous and well treated. As for the external PC that goes into sleep, you need to go into settings and choose the power plan to "High Performance". Then you can edit the "power plan" such that when it is "plugged in", it should never sleep, but the display can go into sleep in 1 minute. I suggest that you give that a try and PM me, if needed

@sns 

To each his own and I am glad that you found what you like. Thanks for sharing your experience.

@milpai

Thank you for the kind words! It’s always rewarding to hear that my setup resonates with someone as discerning as yourself. Your advice on managing the PC’s sleep settings is appreciated. I will PM you once I revisit HQPlayer.

@milpai 

Good points. I did post something similar over on audiophilestyle forums - and on what’s best - but haven’t gotten much guidance. However, there are a lot of DAC 200 owners so I’ll try a parallel path to what they’re suggesting.

I only just purchased the SDV 3100 - haven’t taken delivery of it yet. Candidly, the DAC 200 is so good on DSD that I hesitated to upgrade. I’ve told this story elsewhere. When I first auditioned the DAC 200 - I used it with my streamer converting whatever Qobuz or my stored files fed it. It was good, but it wasn’t massively better than the dac it replaced (which was a pretty nice and well respected Dac in its own right). It was when I fed it native DSD files converted by the Sirius processor that I had a “holy crap” moment and purchased it.

I hopefully get the unit later this week - but the holidays and family arriving mean it will be January (or later?) before I get things settled in. I certainly think it’s worth trying HQ player and roon with this unit. If that combination sonically outperforms my streamer and processor - I’d be delighted. And if it were also convenient (no tinkering, set and forget), I would be able to sell my other gear and reduce boxes, cables and clutter and my wife would be delighted.

Thanks for the kind words on my system. Not as purposeful in set up as yours (nice room and set up!) but it gets the job done nicely and it’s relatively “invisible “ in our living space.

More to come.

Best,

@mgrif104 

Congratulations on SDV 3100. The SDV 3100 is a serious upgrade, especially if you’re already impressed by the DAC 200 with DSD. It’ll be interesting to hear your impressions once it’s settle down in your system. 

T+A knows how to do justice with DSD files much to the tune of my Merging Tech +player. I had the same holy crap moment when I first heard my collection of DSD files. You’re in for a royal treat with SDV 3100. 

@mgrif104 

That is a fascinating upgrade to look forward to - completely different league. Before you sell the DAC 200, I hope you get a chance to experience DSD 512 on this DAC. In my experience the DAC 200 without DSD 512 is like Clark Kent. And with DSD 512, it is like Superman. At least in my setup, when you gop from DSD 256 to DSD 512 there is this "drive" or "zest" along with a "naturalness" that makes the recordings come alive.

There is no real tinkering, if your PC/laptop is set up correctly. The best part is that you can experiment with the filters/modulators from your phone/tablet. T+A's chipless design is optimal for DSD playback and was one of the reasons for me to get this DAC.

Not as purposeful in set up as yours (nice room and set up!) but it gets the job done nicely and it’s relatively “invisible “ in our living space.

Actually living rooms with large open space and high ceiling makes music sound so spacious. Unfortunately I do not have that liberty and hence had to move to the basement. Luckily that space is under the morning room, so that even if I play at 85db level, sound does not go to the bedrooms, since there is nothing above the morning room.

Thanks @milpai 

I hope it’s the upgrade you suggest. I wasn’t able to audition the new DAC in my system against the DAC 200. But, it also comes with a particularly nice preamp. So, I’m reasonably confident I’ll be pleased. (It does mean I’m now selling my integrated and getting a new amplifier - it’s an expensive hobby…).

And, you’re right about the DAC 200 and DSD 512. That’s what I currently give it with my Sirius processor and it’s very, very good.  Sourced that way, I found it to be better than any other sub $20k DAC I’ve auditioned. 

I look forward to giving HQPlayer a trial and will certainly circle back to you and the group with my progress and findings. With the built in NAA, it’s sounds like I might actually be able to get down to 2 boxes - the SDV 3100 and whatever amp I settle on.

Best,

@mgrif104 ,

One thing I will mention is that "not all the bits are the same". So when I got the T+A new, I used Foobar to send DSD 512 and DSD 1024 to the DAC and noticed a difference over the previous DAC. But it was not a "game changing" experience that folks talking about. So I decided to give the HQ Player a try. All I will say is that with 30 seconds of 512 DSD with HQ Player to this DAC, I simply purchased the HQ Player.

Hence I hope that you are able to try out the HQ Player with the new DAC.

@milpai 

Noted and good to know. I absolutely will try HQplayer and DSD 512 and 1024 and report back my results.

Best,