Mahlman, so you have a bias against B&w as well I see. So one of my others systems with 800D3s is also terrible, as is mine with the Tekton Ulfers. I guess my Wilson Sasha Daws will be next on the list, lol. What a live performance sounds like? So many different setups, different amplification methods used, or non amplified, different acoustics. Live has many different sounds. Trying to group it as one sound dosnt seem to make much sense. And since acoustics are not great at many venues, I’d say live isn’t really the end goal holy grail sound to me. Recorded in a studio where acoustics can be better controlled makes more sense in my mind. Live can be fun for the entertainment, not always so much for the quality of the sound
Should people who can't solder, build or test their speakers be considered audiophiles?
So, if you bought that Porsche but can only drive it and not fix it do you really understand and appreciate what it is? I say no. The guy who can get in there and make it better, faster or prettier with his own hands has a superior ability to understand the final result and can appreciate what he has from a knowledge base and not just a look at what I bought base. I mean sure you can appreciate that car when you drive it but if all you do is take it back to the dealership for maintenance and repairs you just like the shape with no real understanding of what makes it the mechanical marvel it is.
I find that is true with the audio world too. There are those who spend a ton of money on things and then spend a lot of time seeking peer approval and assurance their purchase was the right one and that people are suitably impressed. Of course those who are most impressed are those who also do not design, build, test or experiment.
I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can't buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there.
A true audiophile can define his goal and with hands on ability achieve what a mere buyer of shiny parts never will. So out comes the Diana Krall music and the buyer says see how good my system is? The audiophile says I have taken a great voice and played it through a system where all was matched and tweaked or even purposely built and sits right down next to Diana as she sings. The buyer wants prestigious signature sound and the audiophile will work to achieve an end result that is faithful true to life audio as though you were in the room with Diana as she sings. The true audiophile wants true to life and not tonally pure according to someones artificial standard.
So are you a buyer or an audiophile and what do you think should make a person an audiophile?
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Don't know about Cello speakers but I do agree with listening to live venues enough to at least have an idea of what real life sound should be like. Assuming the acoustics of the venue are any good. Maybe this guy thought that was as good as he could get due to limited exposure to nice gear. There are many people who think Bose and B&W are really something too but I would not be caught with them in my house. An ordinary man can build a $100,000 sounding system for $6,000 if he tries and save the dough for himself. |
mahlman OP So yes. Going to see live performances is mandatory if you consider yourself an audiophile. And the more you see, the bigger of an audiophile you are. At least in my eyes! Who even cares about the stupid darn equipment as long as it sounds accurate. Accuracy begets dynamics, begets realism, begets emotion. If you have a system that is capable of rendering true concert recreation, with a good, and flat frequency response, everything will fall in line. And most speakers can do this with proper setup. It’s an audiophile myth you need to spend stupid amounts of money to get a true connection to the music. Believe me, I would know. I have the classical trained ears to hear what does and does not sound accurate. You can trust me over your own ears. >>>>I’m getting a bad feeling. One of the worst sounding systems I’ve come across was the system of a professional musician. First Oboe, National Symphony of Washington to be precise. It’s not that his components were bad, either, on the contrary. He was a dealer for Cello speakers and electronics. So, the moral of the story is being a musician doesn’t necessarily guarantee anything. An ordinary man has no means of deliverance. 😬 |
@tomic601, a Lotus would be my ride if I hit on a Lotto tix.....;) I've always prefered 'nimble' vehicles, and P/W ratios is what makes a sportbike leaves most watching you disappear... ....and why the Elise was in the top 5 of TG's track times....above a Ferrari *tsk*L* Enjoy the test drive. 👍 BTW, some fella got the NY>CA non-stop down to 25 hrs. recently... Solo. In a rental car....'heavily modified'.... I'd loved to be there when he turned the car in...*LOL* He'd installed tanks totalling 150 g. of fuel....gravity fed....trunk, back seat and passenger seat removed.... 'Extremists'.....;) |
It's really not the same watching either Top Gear or The Grand Tour anymore. The chemistry the hosts had with that particular venue was the juice that kept that show going. To think that Jeremy Clarkson punched an asst on the set for not having hot food at the ready was petty and stupid. He's also said lots of awful things that'a come back to bite his in his arse. The only one worth watching now is Chris Harris. He's as good as the Stig sans the helmet. His Youtube channel used to be fun to watch but nothing new for quite some time. It's a pity he has to share his time with the clowns they now have. It's just not the same anymore. All the best, Nonoise |
" Although I still believe I’m an audiophile overachiever (better than the rest of you), I never realized there were so many requirements for being an audiophile. Thanks mahlman! " To be a true Audiophile is a tremendous burden and responsibility few can bear. As you perilously weave through the labyrinth of pseudo science and jargon dujour, if you survive mentally intact, you just might be an audiophile. |
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" So yes. Going to see live performances is mandatory if you consider yourself an audiophile. And the more you see, the bigger of an audiophile you are. At least in my eyes! Who even cares about the stupid darn equipment as long as it sounds accurate. Accuracy begets dynamics, begets realism, begets emotion. If you have a system that is capable of rendering true concert recreation, with a good, and flat frequency response, everything will fall in line. And most speakers can do this with proper setup. It’s an audiophile myth you need to spend stupid amounts of money to get a true connection to the music. Believe me, I would know. I have the classical trained ears to hear what does and does not sound accurate. You can trust me over your own ears. Did I mention I hear just fine and dandy to above 20kHz still? Not sure if most of you older gents can say the same.... " I can certainly agree with this. While I have not attended many live performances the few I have were with small groups playing Cellos and Violins. That sound is what I strive for. Have you heard Enrico Dindo? I have a particularly good recording of his where the early 1700’s build Cello he plays is just extraordinary. Vivaldi is played more often than anything else around here lately. Sadly my ears are not the worlds best and sometimes I invite a friend whose wife and daughter are classical musicians over to listen to the latest tweak or speaker setup. I can cup my ears and get some of what he hears but I am sure I miss things. He confirms I am on the right track for things beyond my hearing range though and I don’t miss what I can’t hear. |
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nonoise6,023 posts06-23-2020 5:01pm Hate to see you go but might I remind you the inventor of the internet, Al Gore, did not have a science degree.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/internet-of-lies/ All the best, Nonoise Oh my gosh, you actually bit on that? HA ha ha HAHAhaha. |
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I propose that an audiophile must have more than a superficial knowledge about what he listens to and must technically understand what he is listening to. He knows why things work and what his end goal is and often makes his own components to achieve this. He knows how to use design software to make speakers that you can’t buy and analyze the room they are in and set up the amplification with digital crossovers and DSP. He can take a plain jane system and tweak it and balance it to best suit the room it is in. He can make it sound far better than the guy who constantly buys new components based on his superficial knowledge who does not understand why what he keeps buying in vain never quite gets there. That guy’s the audio-equivalent of Ken Miles (recently portrayed in Mr. Mangold’s ’Le Mans ’66’). I actually know a guy like that, a friend of mine, and while most of us may think we can wring out a good deal of potential from our stereo set-ups, when audio über-geek Mr. Miles turns up and works his magic, one’s humbled. I can certainly vouch for active configuration and its merits, although many may think what defines ’active’ is merely represented via products with build-in amps and DSP’s, and not that filtration prior to amplification on signal level offers the choice of separates as well. Add to that high sensitivity drivers and horns and you’re really unpopular with any mention of audiophile aspirations. Indeed, why not expel any such need for entitlement and go as we please, when what’s audiophile typicality veers from our own goals? Btw, it's a classic trait seeing those outspoken about defining more strictly the terms of being an audiophile to conveniently fall within that classification themselves. Vanity, vanity.. |
Hate to see you go but might I remind you the inventor of the internet, Al Gore, did not have a science degree.https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/internet-of-lies/ All the best, Nonoise |
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To the original poster of this thread, if you don't have a computer
science degree then you are not worthy of posting on audiogon or
accessing the internet. Good bye " Hate to see you go but might I remind you the inventor of the internet, Al Gore, did not have a science degree. " "Audiophile" is such a pretentious word when used by elitist enthusiasts. " Yeah that's my main beef. Pretentious is such a great word for this. Inspiration for posting this thread in fact. |
Top Gear would never stoop to sawing a speaker in half. They might crush one with a piano, smash it with a rock, burn with acid, and drop from a crane. Onto a caravan. Well, maybe not a speaker.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK1UQGfnlqY |
"Top Gear"; audiophile version, amateur division....brought to by your friends at Furutech.....*click* ....we've sawn this $20,000 speaker in half and will now restore it to Perfect Working Condition with Miracle Mystery Mending Tape!*click* ...absolutely no experience or special skills needed! You too can build in one weekend a fully functional flying sau*click* |
"Not so fast, Grasshopper!" Careful I took martial arts for eight years!! Yes early 911's pre fuel injection are pretty easy access for basic maintenance from the engine bay and underneath. Modern cars, forget about it! My Spectron musical MK ll amp is no slutch weighing in at 54 lbs and the speaker binding post are very robust. I suspect over the years it developed a crack. Hopefully it's not too much of a pain to change out. I do have a VAC tube amp and you're right as it would be much easier to work on than my Spectron "While I have the attention of 911 experts, where did the spare tire go before it disappeared? There must have been one. Was it? Where was it installed? When did it go away? This is a real question and you guys seem to have the answer handy" The spare tire in my 1978 911 SC is in the front storage area. It has to be inflated with compresser I've only owned the older air cooled Porsches, so I'm not sure about the newer models My 2019 Honda Type R has no spare and no run flats, just a compressor Hey it doesn't even have a CD player!! |
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@mahlman - glad to know you were just rattling the cage to see if you could ruffle some feathers.
" I do love audio and spend a lot of time at it in all aspects. Sometimes though the comic theater of the absurd that seems to go with it is a bit more than I can resist. There are some really crazy things around here lurking amongst the nuggets of good. |
@mahlman - glad to know you were just rattling the cage to see if you could ruffle some feathers. I would hope we are all in this together? I certainly learn a lot in here, and am introduced to devices, tweaks and music that are all new to me. I will debate if I have a differing opinion, as will others. And I respect people who will discuss their opinion with reason. If I had unlimited resources, I’d happily purchase everything from people who have taken the time to specialize in certain aspects, and components in the HiFi industry. People here in this forum, most of them to me anyway seem to want to promote this great recreation. I’ll admit I saw the thread heading and thought, oh no, not another: Should people with no turntable or reel to reel be considered audiophiles? |
