Shifting center image and recommendations on an approach

 I have had this kind of problem before and in my case it came down to bad speaker cable connections at the amp. The bare multi-strand wire seemed to be able to deform over time and cause the binders to get loose. I'd crank them down real tight and everything would be ok for a while. Adding some gold plated banana plugs to the cables solved it for me.

I never had this issue. I think something is wrong with your Rotel. Could be just a dirty volume/balance knob.

Sounds like the Rotel is the likely offender. So, I won’t comment on that.

On the speakers. If you are not hearing a big difference… well, that is a problem. Dynaudio are very good speakers. So what is the difference in cost? Need more info here. 

I always try to make sure every change is an upgrade. That usually means spending a minimum of 2x. But on speakers you also want to be drawn to the sound. You might consider returning them and backing off and review speaker companies. They tend to have house sounds… so if you are emotionally attracted to one set of speakers moving up or down their lines brings you better or not as good a sound of the same character. If the Focals are 2x and you don’t hear a real sound improvement, move on.

Sounds like you need to replace your amp. Given the high quality brand you have, maybe this should be the first step. Typically it is speakers first… but it sounds like a better preamp / amp might be a better first step for you.

These are wild guesses. It would be helpful to us if you could put some photos of your system and venue under your ID… virtual system. There are so many variables… it is tremendously helpful to see the actual system.

Thanks for the comment ghdprentice. I've added photos of all the components in my system to my profile. Hopefully, you can view these? The Dynaudio's (20+ years ago) were $1,600/pair, the Focals $4K (2 months ago). I am in the process of a side-by-side comparison, but I'm wondering if changing out to a high quality source integrated amp would bring out more of the Focal's (i.e. perhaps they are limited in their potential at this point)? 

How much break in time have the Focals had?

OP, the rack, the speakers, the electronics +1, nice job! It seems you are working with a less than ideal space. Curtains are not really absorbers. Despite what you may have read a book case (like the one on the left) is not really a diffusor. If you gave your room a makeover it would upgrade everything. I recommend a studio room kit from sonitiususa.com. When it comes to room treatments you can easily make it worse, you need to treat the whole room (ceiling too):

https://www.sonitususa.com/product/studio-acoustical-systems

dadork - Howdy. I would say around 80-100 hours roughly.

Sounds like Yamaha NS1000s!You end up moving your head from side to side trying to get a central image to lock in but it never happens.

Thanks. I love your room / system. Looks great… nice place to listen. While @kota1 brings up good observations that improvements in the venue could really improve the sound. Typically, I would do that after you have all the components you want to live with.

If you are not hearing a real improvement in sound quality… regardless of how good or not the rest of your system, i’m not sure it is justifiable to keep the speakers. 

So, more questions. Typically, a system might cost / value 30 - 35% speakers, 20%  streamer, 20% preamp, 20% amp. So, are you intending to just swap one thing (speakers) or upgrade your whole system? 
 

If you want to upgrade your system… you might want to take time and audition different speakers until you find some you love. Also, audition integrated amps. I recently did so with three,., that are all well respected contemporary integrated amps with vastly different character: Luxman, Pass, and Audio Research. Luxman is really detailed (not very musical), the Pass is powerful. Detailed and musical, the Audio Research incredibly musical (I just fall into the music). Audition these and you will get an idea what high quality components can do. Coupled with speakers that speak to you and you will have a system far beyond your current system… likely to take you the next twenty years… well, we will have to get you a better streamer and DAC… but that comes later.

@ghdprentice - thanks for the comments. I will upgrade the whole system at some point. This isn't a fair assessment, but currently the speakers are roughly 50% of the cost - I say that due to the age of much of the equipment - 20+ years (I didn't count for inflation - 😀).

I will say this to you and @ghdprentice ​​​​@kota1 - I haven't been fair when it comes to the amount of break-in period and dedicated listening sessions. Since I switched to solely using the off-brand Yaqin (which I want to swap out), they have sounded better and I'm moved the speakers out for a wider soundstage w/o losing center stage. I will look into Audio Research per your suggestion. When I purchased the Focals from a local dealer, I also auditioned B&W's (704's I think) and Sonus Faber (Lumina and Sonetto) side by side and did like the Focals better (plus it was a better price since Focal seems to moving the 936 out).

I think the next step is to sell the older equipment (Rotel's) and the off-brand tube-amp (not until I replace it mind you). The challenge is where to even sell this equipment at this point?

Thanks very much for the all the advice. 

@hazeloop 

I didn't recommend any equipment, just room treatment:

I recommend a studio room kit from sonitiususa.com. When it comes to room treatments you can easily make it worse, you need to treat the whole room (ceiling too):

https://www.sonitususa.com/product/studio-acoustical-systems

@kota1 - didn't mean to copy you. I'm not interested in room treatments at this point. Thank you. As @ghdprentice indicated, that can come later.

@hazeloop sell on audiogon (fees) or usaudiomart (free). 
Disclose issues with your Rotel though once you confirm it’s the culprit. 
As @ghdprentice mentioned, look into Pass (solid state) or Audio Research (tubes). Integrated or separates, whatever fits your budget and matches your speakers best. Look for quality of watts rather than quantity. 

Try changing the phase of the speakers. See what happens. 

@hazeloop I used to have shifting center image with my stereo as well. Turn out, the culprit was my Chord Qutest DAC. Once I upgraded my DAC to a more expensive R2R DAC, the center image became more solid and was no longer shifting to the right.  

Later on, I added room correction into my system using "House Curve", and the center image become way better. 

My room is similar in size / layout to yours. Looks great by the way!  I currently have a set of Focal 948's which were difficult for me to find the ideal placement for best soundstage and center imaging. After hours of adjustments I found that 1-2" made a big difference. For me I ended up using a laser pointer and if sitting in my listening chair I would have the right speaker's dead center pointed at my left shoulder, and the left speaker dead center pointed at my right shoulder. This worked well for me. 

I also noticed that center imaging quality does change (sometimes quite a bit) from one track to the next depending on how well it was originally recorded or engineered, so finding a good track to play over and over with good center imaging is a good way to keep the adjustments consistent. 

I will also 2nd what others are saying about room treatment, maybe move the bookshelf if you can to have equal effect on each side of the room. I found that my Focals sound best when they are a full 3 feet off the front and side walls. 

Happy Listening!

@carzmaguy88 - Thanks for your response. I am completely with you on the placement of the speakers. It is driving me nuts. Focal actually provided the following recommendations which seem to contradict each other - 

1. "Optimisation For perfectionists, here is the formula for optimal positioning: If A is the distance from the centre of the woofer to the nearest floor or wall, B is the distance to the next closest floor or wall and C the greatest distance (A < B < C), the equation B(squared) = A*C defines the ideal loudspeaker position.
2. For example: If the centre of the woofer is 50 cm away from the back wall (A) and 60 cm from the floor (B), then the side wall will ideally be 72 cm away (C = B (squared)/A = 72 cm)."

I use it as a guide, but listening is more important (obviously). My current placement is 42" from front wall on both speakers and 31" from left wall and 29" from the right wall. I have a window on the left side and bookshelf (built in) to contend with on the right side. Do I read your placement correct that there is significant toe-in to your listening position? Some recording have better soundstage (center, width and depth) than others. I feel I am becoming a snob and focusing only on music that sounds good, which is a problem. Older recordings (vinyl or streaming) that I really like don't sound as good. I need to get over that...

Thanks again !

Another aspect not to overlook is the rake of the speakers, i.e. tilt forward or backward. A fraction of an inch makes a difference in my experience.