Setup question

e_t,

Two questions that will help with the best setup, as far as sound quality is concerned.

1. Does your HK receiver have pre-outs for the front L&R channels? What model is it if we want to look up the specs?

2. Is the NAD an Integrated amp? What model is it? Does it have a built-in phono pre-amp?

@reubent ..The HK is an AVR 125. As far as I can tell, no pre outs for L&R channel. The NAD is integrated. The model is NAD 3225. The NAD has a built in phono pre-amp for sure. And thank you for taking the time to check this out.

Consider a reasonably good Phono Preamp like the Audio By Van Alstine Vision (Absolute Sound Product of the Year Award) $499.00 or a Black Cube SE (on the used market). Experiment with your existing components and utilize what ever configuration sounds best. I would go two channel for your analogue front end and try to eliminate any type of switch to select speakers. There's all sorts of options; if the NAD has a phonostage (that is suitable for use with your cartridge), you can use that and utilize different pre amp / amp  /integrated configurations with the equipment you have,  until you come up with the best sounding.
Good luck

@bradf ..Thank you for the help..I'll start experimenting :)

Assuming you are keeping your system 5.1 for audio and video:

You can use the NAD as a phonostage only by connecting it to a line level input on the AVR from the record out connection on the NAD. 

Otherwise I would consider purchasing a budget outboard phonostage. What TT/cartridge do you have?

@mesch It's a Rotel..I fogot the model. The cartridge is an Ortofon Red.

The Ortofon red has an output of 5.5mV which would work well with the phonostage within the NAD, as well as most of the budget MM phonostages now on the market. 

Please do not take offense, but i believe the use of an AVR as amplification for a vinyl system represents a weak link, primarily due to the preamplifier stage. Therefore, if space is not a constraint I believe you might find using the NAD as a phonostage satisfactory. 

@mesch No offense taken..that was pretty much the root of my question. On a technical basis, switching the towers between the NAD and the HK, would you use banana plugs and plug them into the system being used at the time, or use a switch? Some people were saying to avoid a switch.

@mesch ...meaning, switching between using the HK for 5.1 and the NAD for phono

Good morning, I mean using only the phono stage in the NAD. For this you run TT into phono input on NAD, select phono as source on NAD, NAD record out into AVR line level input, select that input as source when listening to vinyl. NAD only need to be on when playing vinyl and the AVR serves for signal processing and amplification. The NAD is not hooked up to speakers at all.

@mesch Gotcha-i thought you were saying to avoid the AVR for phono..ultimately, the AVR is becoming a pain in my ass anyway.  My TV and xbox only have optical outs and the optical in on the AVR doesnt recognize the signal.  Ive played with all the settings and reset the receiver.. It only accepts the signal from the cable box.. So that coupled with the fact that its the weakest link in the setup has me thinking i should be looking into a new AV receicer in the 7.1 or atmos line. 

eli,

If you're thinking about ditching your current HT receiver, you might want to just use the NAD and get the receiver out of your system altogether. I think the NAD by itself will sound better for vinyl and it might be adequate for your HT duties, although it will be 2-channel only.

7.1 or Atmos is going to cost you a lot more money just in speakers, not to mention the cost of a quality HT receiver to power them. You might want to figure out the budget for a 7.1 or Atmos system, speakers, amplification and source electronics, and then listen to a comparably priced 2-channel rig. The 2-channel rig, at the same overall price, should sound significantly better than the 7.1 or Atmos system of the same price.

That said, you might find that you just prefer HT/surround/multi-channel. In that case, just buy what you like best.

For me, it's not even close. I prefer quality 2-channel over mid-priced HT/surround....every time.

Enjoy,

TIC

@reubent Thank you for the advice. I think I'm going to try that and see how it goes for a little while..It's not a big room anyway. A 7.1 or Atmos system would take up more room than the furniture so 2 channel might be the best way.

I do agree with reubent regarding cost/quality of multichannel systems over 2 channel ones. Also in the fact that the NAD likely has the better preamplifier stage. My advice was made based on your wishing to add analog to an existing system using gear you presently own. 

Regarding audio for video, my thinking is that unless one has a dedicated room for theater, the added expense of extra channels doesn't represent a worthwhile return. I believe this to be particularly true considering 7.1 over 5.1. In what environment is your video/audio used?  I use a 2.1 system for video/audio in my living room (video takes precedence here).  If I could purchase a quality 3.1 integrated amplifier I would consider this, for the center channel often proves beneficial for video with some discs. Don't know of said device, so would likely have to use 3 channels of a 5.1 processor which I am unwilling to do.

I would suggest you integrate your analog source into your system as is, then try using your system as a 2.1 and 3.1 channel one for video and see/hear that experience over the 5.1 experience you now have. Then get back to us regarding your thinking.

Is the fact that you have to use the digital out from the cable box vs. your TV that big of a deal?  Are you sure you are outputting PCM digital from your TV via the optical connection? 
  

@mesch The reason using optical from the cable box is a big deal is that I run Plex more than I ever watch cable..and the cable box doesn't have apps, or specifically the Plex app. I'll play around with different configurations. Dialogue in movies gets muddled for my at times and I often have to turn up the volume on the TV to hear it. I bought my Dad a soundbar that he retired in about 3 days so that's available for use as well. It's an LG with a wireless sub, nothing special.

As far as the PCM output is concerned, I'm fairly new to optical but I thought I had tried all output settings from both Xbox and TV. But now that I know PCM is the specific setting to use, I'll try again.

It's a pretty small room. Something like 14 x 14. The house is a small bungalow so HUGE sound isn't required, but it would be nice to have more clarity as well as sort of "feel" the action in those types of movies.

I agree that dialogue on movies can be lost with high impact movies. Use of a center channel speaker does improve this. A subwoofer does much toward experiencing the 'feel' of action.  One can always use a 5.1 amplifier for a 3.1 system. In your small room you might find that satisfactory. Would allow one to own better L & R speakers for audio. 

Are you playing records yet?

That's distortion and smearing.  Diaologue should be crystal clear, a whisper, just that, and totally discernible.  

@mesch yeah-i took the ht receiver out foe now and im running only phono and cd from the nad.  It sounds fantastic.  If i were to use the NAD exclusively, is there a good way to convert optical to rca? I feel like the $20 adapter on amazon is a bad call waiting to happen. 

@cerrot sorry..wasn't sure what you meant with your response. Which solution would you go with for HT/TV Audio to achieve that.

Great! For TV use get a budget DAC with optical input. What digital outputs are available from the cable box? If it has coax there are many DACs with optical and coax inputs to serve both units. 

@mesch thank you again for the help..and everybody else as well. The cable box actually has optical and rca out so that's not an issue. I'm more concerned with either/both the optical out from the TV for the apps or the optical out from my Xbox for the same reason.

When you say the cable box has RCA out, do you mean dual RCAs analog output or single coax digital out? 

@mesch dual rca analog (its a uverse box if youre familiar)

If you intend on using the analog output on the cable box then you only need a toslink optical input DAC for your TV, once you set the TV output to digital-PCM.  Many inexpensive ones can be found on Ebay. I once used one by MUSE, cost was ~$25. Just make sure it has optical input. 

Are you still considering upgrading your speakers?

@mesch i just ordered the dac a couple hours ago.. Cant wait to get it set up.. The speakers are Ok.. I found a local listing for psb stratus minis for 175..which is significantly less than any other pricing ive seen.  The same seller has stratus gold for 550..which is also a gokd price but would stretch my budget with the holidays here.  But after listening to my office setup (mcintosh ma5100, mcs turntable, ortofon red, psb image 5t) im certain i want psb again.. Its perfect presentation for my hearing 

Great! Let us know how everything works out. PSB makes very good speakers. A dealer friend sold PSB so I have heard a couple models, not those you are considering. In my 2ndary system I use the NAD 326BEE integrated. I buy speakers used here on AG for this system. Buy an sell a pair about once a year, keeping two different pairs around for fun. Doesn't cost too much to explore different sonics that way. Need to know the market however.

Not to keep hounding you with questions, but I forgot to ask if you were using a subwoofer. Depending on main speakers one might not wish to use one for music, however for movie soundtracts even a budget one adds to the experience.

Good luck in your speaker quest, and hope the DAC proves out for TV purposes.   

@mesch  That's a great idea..I may have to start doing that as well to really learn what's out there. I'm blessed to have two extremely good vintage audio stores within 30 minutes of my house as well. It's made this whole mission significantly easier.

I originally only did 2 channel and I felt it lacked a bit in the bass..so I turned up the bass on the receiver and tried to get settings where I wanted them (for the record I favor brightness overall so go figure) but couldn't get what I wanted so I added a small powered sub. I don't have it turned up very much. In fact, I kept checking to make sure it was on because the level I had it at made it faint..but it added the exact amount of bass I was looking for on my records. I can just turn up the level when I watch a movie I suppose. But when I get the PSB's, I'll try two channel first..I can always have the sub plugged in and leave it off until I put on a movie.

With music one should not hear the sub, the bass extension yes but not the sub, at least not to know where it is located. 

Enjoy!

Thanks @mesch ...the advice is very much appreciated. I'll update you once the psb's are hooked up but so far so good.

Lots of quality equipment will get you there. I just wanted you to know you should not settle for anything that is not crystal clear, and think thats the way it is. I have a nice NAD T878 and B&W HTM 1 Center Channel and the 805s.   

@cerrot Do you use center channel for music too?

I have a separate 5.1 (tv) system and another 2 channel (serious music) system.  I found that to get the best of each of their strengths, they should be in different rooms.

I have a separate room for music.  When I do listen to music in the theater, I do not listen to the center channel.  Stereo is just two channels.