Sent Back the Pro-ject Turntable: What would be the best option in the $1800 range?

Is this deja vu? Dude, you're still not getting it?

LOL:)

I have deja vu with all recent threads on audiogon 

@klimt Is this deja vu? Dude, you're still not getting it? A $200 cartridge on the GR will sound better than an $800 one on that Debut.

If you like ProJect get the 6 Perspex SB. Shop around for price. Down the line put a Clearaudio or Ortofon MM cartridge in there. It has a great arm for the money, better than the Technics. 

ProJect Debut Carbon DC is entry level belt drive turntable, if you’re serious about analog you will change this turntable anyway sooner or later, investment in this turntable is not good idea, you will loose money when you will sell it anyway.

Correct me if i’m wrong, but your ProJect is new and can be returned with no loss, right ? Do it before it’s too late, when you will try to sell it "as used" you loose 30% minimum.

Technics re-sell value is pretty strong, you can easily sell this turntable to someone who understand what it is.

Your $200 cartridge also will be upgraded sooner or later if you’re serious about analog.

Actually Technics and about $500 cartridge is all you need in my opinion to stay with this setup for a long time!

Thanks guys!

I posted this in another thread and I would appreciate some additional feedback.

The question I have is whether it’s better to buy a ProJect Debut Carbon DC and significantly upgrade the cartridge ($800 for example) and other tweeks or buy the Technics SL-1210GR (and buy a cheaper cartridge ($200)?

Also, will upgrading the pre amp/amp solve the muddy bass problem?

It would seem to me to be extraneous and relate more to the lines historic Professional (aka DJ) market placement.

Almost every Vintage Direct Drive turntables have PITCH Control, the only difference is that it is KNOB (like on Denon DP-80, Victor TT-101), not FADER like on the Technics SL1200 series. Having a pitch control on turntable is a great bonus and most of the top models have it. Just sayin' 
 

Thank you @noromance I stand corrected; SL-1200GR.
As per the OP's stated interest in the 'difference between' SL-1500C and SL-1500GR:
Premium Class DD TT / SL-1500C:
Starting Torque, 1.8 kg / cm.
Build-up Characteristic, 0.7 sec. From standstill to 33 1/3 rpm.
WOW and Flutter, 0.025% W.R.M.S.
Rumble, 78 db.
Platter, Weight: Approximate 2.0 kg Die-cast Aluminum.

Grand Class DD TT / SL-1200GR:
Starting Torque, 2.2 kg / cm.
Build-up Characteristic, 0.7 sec. From standstill to 33 1/3 rpm.
WOW and Flutter, 0.025% W.R.M.S.
Rumble, 78 db.
Platter, Weight Approximate 2.5 kg Diecast Aluminum.

Grand Class DD TT / SL-1200G:
Starting Torque, 3.3 kg / cm.
Build-up Characteristic, 0.7 sec. From standstill to 33 1/3 rpm.
WOW and Flutter, 0.025% W.R.M.S.
Rumble, 78 db.
Platter, Weight: Approximate 3.6 kg Brass and Die-cast Aluminum.
I must stand by my assertion though.
The two Models are directly comparable with similar specifications regardless of place of manufacture.
Both the SL-1500C and SL-1200GR use a Cast Aluminum Machined Platter with only a difference of 0.40 kg or Approximately 0.88 lbs difference in weight.
Notably Technics listed Specification shows Weight (Including Turntable Sheet) for SL-1500C and Weight (Including Rubber Sheet) for SL-1200GR.
This would connote a difference in material perhaps.
With the SL-1200G (Also listed by Technics as Grand Class) using a Brass and Cast Aluminum (combined) Platter being 0.8 kg or 1.76 pounds heavier than the Platter used in the SL-1200GR.
Obviously the SL-1200G has better Damping as suggested by comparison to the Reference Level SP-10R Truely 'High End' (i.e. "Separate Control Unit") with a Price to match BTW.
As to the comparison of the Design of the ' Motor Structure ' between the two TTs in question.
The Technics web-site ( https://www.technics.com/us/products/premium-class/direct-drive-turntable-system-sl-1500c.html ) clearly states: ( for the SL-1500C Premium Class DD TT )
"The Latest Coreless Direct Drive Motor Achieves High-precision Stable Rotation"
Further Stated: "The motor exclusively tunes the single-rotor, Coreless direct drive motor adopted by the SL-1200GR" and also references: "technologies acquired through the development of the SL-1200 Series and the high-end SL-1000R" with: "lavishly inserted into the motor drive unit, a key part of the turntable".
Further note: A Graph (Damping Charcateristics Graph) comparing Damping Performance for SL-1500C which would help clarify and delineate differences is not provided in the description. As it is provided for comparison for both Grand Class Models SL-1200GR and SL-1200G.
And to add to all the excitement.
The Tonearm Specs appear to be the same for all three ( SL-1500C / SL-1200GR / SL-1200G )DD TTs. The SL-1200G has
Perhaps suggesting that the Same Tonearm is used on all three Players of distinct and separate classifications ( Premium / Grand ).
Anyone wishing to dispute this particular 'unconscionable' Claim with facts or knowledge backed by facts feel free to jump in here.
>>>                                                                         <<< (provisional)
Again from the description of Premium Class SL-1500C:
"Simple Design with Functional Beauty"
And:
"The SL-1500C sports a simple design without unnecessary frills, while retaining the superb operating feel that is a Technics tradition. The attractive appearance lets you enjoy playing records to your heart’s content.".　
In Summary.
The Premium SL-1500C is a 'Dynamite Grade' High Value Player worthy of consideration.
My argument is not that the SL-1200GR is not a great TT. Certainly of higher Specification.
I would however argue against the Slide Adjustment for Speed Control.
It would seem to me to be extraneous and relate more to the lines historic Professional (aka DJ) market placement.

However I would favor the Strobe ( for visual verification and appearance ) and Queuing Illumination. Very nice feature for a Manual TT!
Yes. I think that "Torque" is significant with regard to Stability and Precision for operation /
function of the DD TT.
Reference:
"High-precision Motor Control for Ideal Rotation Conditions", "rotation control, which verifies and corrects the precision of the motor".
My intent is only to offer an option for the interest of the OP.
More to the point.
Who here would argue that a step up to the upper Tier of the 2M Series would not be possible or beneficial (SL-1500C)?
Execution Squad, What say ye ...

The 1500 is for noobs... the opener doesn't look like a noob

Torque is not a big deal, once the turntable is up to speed, but the SL12010GR is just a much better product on all levels (motor, electronics, platter, plinth, etc), compared to the 1500.  I would add my voice to the chorus: go for the GR.

The Well Tempered Labs Simplex is a fine table.

1200GR. 
Wasn’t sold on the looks at first but it’s a beast of a machine that will outlast me.

Comparing entry level 1500c to the truly high-end "G" make no sense.

The "G" has coreless motor, the best DD motor available today, just like the SP-10R. 

The 1500 does not even assembled in Japan

The GR is much closer to the G, the best choice if the G is too expensive, those models made in Japan. 

@rego Don’t you mean the GR? The G is $4k. 
Even if OP gets the 1500, he/she will be wanting/regretting not getting the GR.

The most notable difference between the 1500 / 1200G.
SL-1500: Starting Torque, 1.8 kg / cm.
SL-1200G Starting Torque, 3.3 kg / cm.
The 1200G has a stronger motor / more torque.
Wow and Flutter spec appear to be the same. (0.025 % WRMS )
The difference would relate to consistent platter speed.
With the 1500 @ $1199 one could pick up a 2M Bronze Cart.

Get the GR. Stick it on your credit card. You won't notice in a year but you'll be happy you did. 

Sent you a PM earlier.

My friend just replaced his older SOTA with the Technics SL-1210GR and he is a happy trooper!!

The SL1500C is simplified and made in China
The SL1200GR is much better and made in Japan, the difference is not big to buy the right one from the start. You can always try to find gently used SL1200GR for lower price, many audiophiles sell them to upgrade to the G (the best in this series). 

Thanks guys!

The vpi is a little out of my price range.

Anyone know what the difference is between these two technics TT?

SL-1200GR  for  $1,699.99

and

SL-1500C for  $1,199.99

I like VPI though there are some quarks with my table that took time to figure out.  I'd go for a used Prime.  

The reason I like VPI is they have been around a long time, the tables are upgradable, the motor is outboard and mine is a monster.  All of this is subjective though as I have only been around my table and a Dr. Feickert.

This is a good deal IMO as well.

https://www.audioadvice.com/vpi-prime-scout-turntable.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIlvPH0eHC5wIVB7zACh3KrQi...

How about a used VPI Scout?