I'm on a search for a very specific type of integrated. I am upgrading my system from the top of the stream down. I go all digital / Lossless quality or higher so the logical start was with the DAC. I just received my Yggdrasil which I absolutely LOVE and feel that I got a much better value than I was expecting (even with all the praise online it met and exceeded my expectations).
My quest continues with the integrated. I am looking for a company that spends very little on marketing and works to move as much of the value for the money to the product itself. Very high value is important to me, I want to get value above the price and I don't want to pay for anything I don't need (such as a built-in DAC as I already have one). The more musical and the higher the clarity the better. My short list is pretty short- the SimAudio Moon 600i and Ayre's integrated. Some other factors are below. I typically buy new but I'm open to a good value in a used product as well.
Budget (only for the integrated): $8K+/- Music preference: classical, light rock, pop End speakers: It is between Accoustic Zen Crescendo / Vandy Quatros / Wilson Sophias / Revel Salon Ultimas Power: 150 WPC+ into 8 ohm
I know this may not reach the Pinnacle of high end. I was recently speaking to an Anthem Representative. I was in the market for a I225. Its a beast if an amp. He informed me that production had stopped on the model. I was able to find a great second hand unit with a warranty for $900.00 and I found this article on the 2016 CEDIA...
ANTHEM- Canada’s venerable high-end audio manufacturer has re-entered the two-channel space in a major way with the introduction of the new STR Integrated Amplifier. Anthem says that the STR Integrated Amplifier is features an entirely new platform and amplifier technology. The STR Integrated replaces the venerable Integrated 225 that has graced Anthem’s lineup for a decade. Anthem made the announcement today at CEDIA.
A major aspect of the STR Integrated amp is Anthem’s renowned Anthem Room Correction (ARC™) for the two-channel music. Integrated amplifiers have been traditionally abandoned by companies and left without the benefits of high end room correction. Now, with the inclusion of ARC, two-channel listeners are now able to optimize their listening experience and achieve the very best sound experience possible in their room with the ability to target specific frequencies based on ARC’s sophisticated room correction software.
We’ve had exceptional experience with ARC and consider it one of the best room correction solutions out there not only in terms of what it does but also what it doesn’t attempt to do. ARC focuses on the frequencies under 5kHz, which are non-directional and the most important to EQ. Users have the ability to tailor the frequencies that ARC targets through the ARC software.
Moreover, the STR Integrated Amplifier allows you to connect two subwoofers and bass manage both. The subs can be used in either mono or stereo configurations. An analog direct mode bypasses everything for a purist approach.
Anthem says that the STR Integrated Amplifier features inputs for moving magnet and moving coil phono cartridges. Also included is a high-resolution pre-amplifier section and high current, high output amplifier section. Anthem says there are eight bipolar output devices per channel, massive toroidal power supply, and Anthem’s Advanced Load Monitoring (ALM) for 225W at 8 ohms, 400W at 4 ohms, and 600W at 2 ohms, all with both channels continuously driven. It’s unclear at this point if the preamp section shares any similarity with the MRX/AVM 60 platform or if is entirely new and customized for specifically for the new integrated amplifier.
The DAC section features S/PDIF, AES/EBU inputs, as well as Asynchronous USB with support for USB, which supports 32-bit/384 kHz PCM, and DSD 2.8/5.6 MHz sources. The DAC section appears to offer a few advancements over the one found in the MRX and new AVM 60 models, which do not have an AES/EBU input. The amplifier featuring a stunningly beautiful front Thin Film Transistor (TFT™) display for an improved, high-resolution image compared to traditional LCD displays.
Anthem’s STR Integrated Amplifier is one of the few integrated amplifiers that can be fit into custom installation settings and controlled via high-end systems. The system comes with built-in ethernet and RS-232
Anthem says that the STR Integrated Amplifier is priced at $4,499 (US MSRP) and is the first of a new suite of premium two-channel / stereo products from Anthem. The STR Integrated will be available exclusively at Anthem dealers in early 2017..."
Just utterly surprised no one has yet mentioned the LFD NCSE? It has been properly accolades as one of the purest and most liquid solid state integrated offerings regardless of price (I think it is around $6K now).
I have four different reference level systems and one of my systems has this exact integrated in it. Very pure tonality, surpasses the Pass in transparency (which I auditioned against it).
The minor issues I have with it is that it is only 70 wpc, which I think is due to the fact that it only uses one pair of output transistors per channel (which I understand, improve transparency and liquidity due using multiple pairs for more output results in smearing comparably). Also doesn't have the ultimate bass power"heft" of massive amps comparably either (what does? ).
I do think the great reviews all over the net are spot on and not hyped up fan boys. And, for $6K, it seems embarrass most stuff I've heard under $10K from any other solid state manufacturer I've experienced.
Not that you don't have enough suggestions to sort through, but Blue Circle Audio meets all your criteria. I doubt there is anything more musically complete than their integrated amps at any given price point.
@mgmarcus Good point. Gilbert at Blue Circle is a design genius and a powerful engineer. His FtTH2 hybrid integrated and his BC 022i integrated are superb.
Not sure how the Simaudio dropped off your list, but this is a definite must hear. I upgraded from separates to the 600i and haven't looked back. This is a great integrated and took my system to a new level from Rogue audio power and Audio Research pre.
Thanks to everyone for all your input. A very interesting turn of events has taken place at RMAF- Schiit is going to offer a 400w monoblock amp fully balance and A/B into 8ohm for $700 each.. That's Nuts!!! A new pre-amp also at $700 is joining the lineup. I'm going to add both of those to the list if reviews are good. The challenge is that they are not integrated but at that price it might be time to buy a new audio rack and have an all Schiit setup.
$700 only buy excellent cable, if you are very lucky, not monoblock, unless perhaps it is made by slaves from parts made by slaves. I do not buy $700 monoblocks regardless of how they sound, period.
I revisited you post and looked at your power requirements which are pretty high for a not real expensive integrated. I would consider speakers that require less power, that usually means they have a crossover that doesn't suck the music right out of them. Some are so over dampened they sound lifeless. In your price range I would be thinking more efficient speakers and perhaps a sweet little tube integrated.
Look at the Marantz Reference integrated line as well as the newest line of Yamaha integrated gear. These two fit your criteria, save for the power you'd like. As others have said, try more efficient speakers or see if you can get a try out/return program like Music Direct offers. It's where I got my Marantz gear from. They are great to deal with.
I'm one of those people that thinks that the amp and speaker choices should inform each other. So my only comment is that if you end up choosing the Vandy, then I would urge you to seriously consider the Ayre AX-5 Twenty. And vice versa.
I have heard a number of " miracle integrated amplifiers " To name a few, the Sophia Electric 91-03, Japanese Triode TRX-88PP, Melody Hi Fi AN 845. Now find a speaker with synergy.
I would look speakers that are easy to drive. Large crossovers, to me suck the life out of the music. I would also avoid shine looking drivers. Are they just for show?
I am looking for a company that spends very little on marketing and works to move as much of the value for the money to the product itself. Very high value is important to me, I want to get value above the price and I don’t want to pay for anything I don’t need (such as a built-in DAC as I already have one). The more musical and the higher the clarity the better.
If VFM is your thing & you value musicality, I would take the Wells Audio Majestic integrated over an Accuphase integrated any day of the week, and for a fraction of the price ($3599USD). The only downside is the cheap remote, but you can pay an extra $100 & get an upgraded remote apparently. And with the savings, you could buy Stillpoints Ultra feet and/or upgrade your cables.
I'd make every effort to find a used Dartzeel CTH 8550. You'd be set for many years. I can say with certainty that it will compete with virtually any audio gear out there. Herve the designer is a genius and fine gentleman. Check with Blue Light Audio as demos or used are sometimes available. I don't own one BTW. IMO worth stretching for.
If looking at 2nd hand integrateds, you should also seek out the Vitus SIA-025 which offers musical, liquid/smooth Class A sound, and is fast, detailed & has wide bandwidth. Though they rarely appear on the 2nd hand market in the US however due to limited Dealers over here & folks tend to keep them. You will need to up your budget above $8k however as the SIA-025 retails around $23-24k in the US.
I'm an Ayre devotee for a few years (all my electronics are Ayre seperates). They are very customer sensitive and always are there for help. (I've only done offered updates.....the units have been rock solid)
How about a used Krell FBI. It's Class A. Designed by D'agostino. Check out the reviews. I know Streophile reviewed it, but not sure who else may have. I would think 8K would buy one in good condition. I know it's not by an "unknown" company but it is an excellent integrated.
I tried many including Vitus RI-100, Plinius 9200, plinius Hiato, Jeff Rowland continuum 500, Accuphase E-470 and E-600, Luxman 590ax, Bryston 135, Musical Fidelity Nuvistas, BAT-3000 and some others during last 15 years.
Currently have PASS INT-250 and INT-60 before. Both are outstanding and for the money (buying from Mark at Reno HiFI) and reputation and service, I doubt you can find any better than this.
Pass INT-60 would be my choice - it will get you closer to life sound than any others I heard. It has 2K VA toroidal transformer inside, even so it rated only 60db at 8ohm and 120 at 4ohm, it highly biased to class A and drove my speakers (Sonus Faber Guarneri Evo that are not that efficient) without braking a sweat.
I would take the Wells Audio Majestic integrated over an Accuphase integrated any day of the week, and for a fraction of the price ($3599USD). ....spoken by someone who's never heard an Accuphase E-600. I've heard both and can audition both for you at short notice.
donjr 1,191 posts 11-03-2016 1:21pm I would take the Wells Audio Majestic integrated over an Accuphase integrated any day of the week, and for a fraction of the price ($3599USD). ....spoken by someone who’s never heard an Accuphase E-600. I’ve heard both and can audition both for you at short notice.
Oh that’s right, audio is not subjective, so since you are sarcastically implying Accuphase is superior, you must be right, lol!
Perhaps you forgot the OP’s request "I am looking for a company that spends very little on marketing and works to move as much of the value for the money to the product itself. Very high value is important to me, I want to get value above the price.."? In the US, Accuphase gear is way over-priced unless you’re talking grey-market 100v examples which don’t come with a warranty. Don’t believe me? Compare retail prices on any Accuphase product in the US with either Audiocubes2 or Price Japan & you'll see the *real* value of Accuphase gear.
I am a acoustic zen fan , the cresendos are top notch . I just talked to mr lee today about shortening some cables i have from him ( adagios ,all az cables,nuvista ) I strongly suggest you call him , he almost always answers himself . And i would ask his opinion on power. The mf nuvista will sound great and rip , I personally would be going reference vac intergrated used
Ask inna he found a vac phi 110 used for 9k cple weeks back 25k new epic for those crescendos ( a dream amp for me )
. Again call mr lee he will give you great advice and may offer you a deal you can’t refuse. Any az spkr owner usually gets 40% off on cables etc just saying .. cheers
there is also a vac sigma 160 for sale here for like $8500
Yeah...I think, that VAC is gone. In my dreams I would like to compare that VAC, Ypsilon hybrid integrated and Gryphon solid state integrated. Assuming reasonably efficient speakers and medium size room, I would guess it would be a matter of taste but also it could depend on particular music and volume level, but overall all three should be absolutely top level. Gryphon Diablo 300 is said to be extremely poweful and dynamic, in addition to other things, VAC should win in midrange and Ypsilon might have a unique sound signature and great balance. If I am right in my very schematic assessment, which one would I take? Hmm..I don't know !
That phi 110 was a "call it quits for me amp ". A great and rare deal , there is a gryphon for sale here but not a diablo. I just really like vac always have . I see one in my future hopefully the 110 👍
I saw that Gryphon, it is supposed to be an excellent amp, but it is 11-17 years old, there are no Gryphon dealers in North America and it is not as good as the following Diablo model not to mention current Diablo 300 model. Judging by reviews and the word of mouth. Besides, I would have to sell things that I don't want to sell to get it. So no, I will wait. As I said, I am sure I would be happy with any of those three.
A company that is spending little on marketing but mostly all on product and sound?
I currently own a Norma IPA-140 integrated. Not cheap at around 10K retail ( less of course on the used market).
Go to the website, read all you can on it, it is a very refined and unbelievable jewel for the money, some say it can hold its place compared to twice the price company. The sound is addictive.
I have owned So many integrateds in the past, including some from simaudio /Moon, and that LSA (ex DK amp from China).
The norma is in a higher league in my opinion sound-wise and build quality. And of course its a looker, its Italian...
donjr1,194 posts11-06-2016 1:29pmi’m not, I just don’t believe you’ve heard it with such a bold statement.
That’s fair enough. Don’t get me wrong, I think the class A Accuphase E-600 is a very nice integrated. Not in the same league as the Vitus SIA-025 as would be expected given the price disparity, but very good. I’m just saying dollar for dollar I think the Wells Audio integrated is better value for money which was a pre-requisite of the OP, as opposed to Accuphase gear which is way over-priced in the US imho.
donjr - I think Melbguy1, was using the comparison of Japanese prices vs US as the sole reason for his statement. The Wells Audio doesn’t even come close to the Accuphase - I have heard the Wells Audio and E-600 and own an E-470.
Unfortunately, manufacturers like Accuphase and Luxman have been challenged to enter the US market due to the mark-up imposed by their respective distributors. In fact, I am sure that this could be said for most Japanese brands that are imported into the US.
It’s a shame that Accuphase and other brands don’t exhibit or advertise more in the US. Gray market gear has absolutely no value poroposition upon resale so it is really a "pay me now or pay me later" scenario.
OP has so many choices at his price point and many more if he wants to consider used gear. The used gear market is extremely depressed and coupled with the OCD nature of many of us, with a desire to constantly upgrade our gear, a mint-condition, like new integrated could be acquired for 40% or 50% of MSRP.
Greg thanks for the heads up on the comparo between WA & the Accuphase. You’re right, a mint 2nd hand US-sale Accuphase E-470 or E-600 could be a very good option. A mint 2nd hand Boulder 865 could also be a good option & easily snapped up in that price bracket if looking for a more neutral sounding amp.
My apologies to melbguy. Accuphase has never advertised much in the U.S. I had an opportunity to purchase a demo E-600 and jumped on it after hearing it a few times. My close friend owns the only high end hi fi shop in the city I live in. He carries Ayre, Luxman, Rega, Audio Research, Octave......too much to list. The Accuphase is the best integrated I've ever heard and I've heard a lot due to this friendship. I got a good deal but it wasn't a better deal than he would have given anyone else who wanted this amp. I wouldn't trade it for any other amp. I stated my opinion and so did you. If I had the money, I would have bought this amp at retail because I've never heard a 16k integrated amp (or in that ball park) that sounds as good.
All good donjr. I think of Accuphase as like a high end version of nice hifi gear in that it has the features and user-friendliness of hifi, but the sound of high end gear. I’ve thought more than once what kind of system I would build if life turned to s*** and I had to sell my current system, and the Accuphase E-600 has crossed my mind more than once. Though I really think Accuphase should bring out a server with an internet tuner + server transport/dac combo. That said, I prefer Vitus because it sounds more natural and tube-like, and the SCD-025 Mk2 sounds more analogue-like for my tastes. It’s all relative.
I agree with melbguy1, the accuphase gear is way overpriced outside of Japan. Its a well build and great sounding integrated but having both E-470 and E-600 in my system for while, I don't think its worth paying retail. I demoed Vitus RI-100 and I think its better than accuphase integrated offerings. The Vitus SIA-025 simply above all and this is reflected in price. My opinion, the newly released Pass INT-60 is better sounding than accuphase E-470 . I sold my E-470, after demoing Pass INT-60 in my system.
I wonder how the Pass INT-250 and Gryphon Diablo 300 would stack up against the Vitus SIA-025? I tend to think the Absolare Passion integrated would be more of a peer, though I haven’t heard the Pass or Gryphon.
I own a yba passion integrated and a yba passion 600 power amp and I must say that all the gear I've owned in forty years the yba gear has the most beautiful sound highly recommended.
Melbguy1, interesting you mention the Absolare integrated. I will be doing an in-home trial before the end of the month. On paper, it looks like a nice piece of gear.
I also share my office with my listening room--a sort of man cave built above my garage. Here are my 2 cents after trying different speakers and amps over the last few years.
1) Nail down the speaker you like and listen to it in your room to make sure it's right. I had Harbeth SHL5s and, on a whim, bought some B&W 803Ds. Bad idea. Overwhelmed the room and my current integrated didn't drive them well. I currently have Dynaudio Contour 3.4S with upgraded Esotar 2 tweeters. 2) Match the amp with the speaker. With the Harbeths, I started with Bryston separates (4BSST2 and MP26), then went to an Ayre integrated AX-7E, Luxman 505ux, Hegel H300 and auditioned a friend's Devialet 400. The Bryston separates were great, the Ayre was wimpy, the Hegel okay, the Devialet was great, and I'm keeping the Luxman. 3) Why the Luxman? Bulletproof, excellent sonics, nice features like a loudness button (you'll be listening at low volumes in your home office and it makes a big and pleasant difference). Nice looking and a hefty 60 lbs of Japanese goodness. 4) If this is your work and listening environment, you might consider incorporating a streamer than allows you to install Roon. Roon has an amazing AI interface that will create your own customized listening experience and allow integration with Tidal.
Final thoughts--Luxman has an entire range. The 505ux is excellent and drives the Dyaudios really well, but you can also go Class A in their lineup. A bargain choice is also the Hegel H200 which you can find used for about $2000.
@austinbob -- ditto on the 'match the amp with the speaker' comment. But I wonder how one decides where to start if not auditioning in pairs. I recently upgraded to B&W 80s D2s (when learned no longer produced). Paired with Ayre AX5Twenty integrated due to recommendation by dealer and great reviews. Horrible combination. Bright abrasive highs, no bottom end. Was it the amp or the speakers? Decided to substitute PASS INT-250 and the results are ideal -- detail, warmth, broad and deep imaging.
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