The copies I have are quiet. You may want to try US cleaning one and see if that helps.
These new DGs are all pressed by Optimal in Germany. Pallas would have been a better choice IMO.
Rumble - turntable or background noise DG LP
Context: Not really audiophile guy. Set up: AXR 100, Debut Carbon w/Ortofon Blue, KEF LS 50, BW ASW 8 Sub. I am a subscriber to LA Phil so I know what things should sound like.
I notice a fair amount of what I would call background noise and sub flutter or pulsing when I play Dvorak New World - Berliner/Kubelik and Beethoven 6 Wiener/Bohm. Both are new DG and "remastered". The sound otherwise is very good but the background noise is annoying. When I play C Botti Vol 1 on Blue Note, or one of the 45 RPM like Brubek or D. Krall they are really quiet. You have to want to find the noise. I have double checked the stylus for proper set up. 1.8 on the nose by measurement. Any idea on why the DG's would be so much worse? I have compared the DG vinyl with the same DG CD's and well, for reasons the defy explanation, I like the sound of the vinyl much better except for the background noise.
Thanks
It’s possible the rumble and flutter are being amplified from feedback. Especially with a sub, it can push out a lot of energy to excite resonances on your rack, plinth, tonearm, etc. If that’s the case, better isolation will help a ton. You can "easily" test if this is the problem - by listening through headphones (speakers off, subs off) and seeing if you enjoy much better signal-to-noise ratio. I’ve heard inadequate isolation manifest as a rumble sound, and as a hum that sounds much like a ground loop. These types of feedback are particularly insidious because they can get to a point where they runaway (keep increasing), which is dangerous. Also dangerous is woofer flapping (subsonic energy), ESPECIALLY on those KEF’s! Unlike per cones, those drivers cannot tolerate excursion at all past their limits (search for ample photo evidence of busted KEF drivers). Thankfully you’re protecting them with a sub (assuming you run a high-pass filter on the KEF’s - if not you need one or you run risk of breaking the drivers), but too much energy isn’t good for the sub either and it will contribute greatly to feedback into the table. |
Rumble filter is a good idea. The ones built into phono stages generally range from mild to "really mild" and often won't save you in situations like this. KAB's standalone rumble filter is much much stronger, and can help a lot. But the fact that OP can hear the noise means it's at least partly above 20Hz, which is above the range of these filters. |
Hello - all good information and thank you. What I do not understand is why it is more present with the DG and not on the other vinyl. It would seem to me that if it is sound and vibration causing a feedback through the turntable system it would be noticeable regardless of the vinyl being played. The 45's seem to have a very wide dynamic range. I also do not hear it when I play the Ortofon test record. The disturbance has to start somewhere. I am going to further isolate the TT. TT now sits on a 20x15x1.25 wooden cutting board which is on top of a 60x17 buffet style wooden piece. I use some small felt rounds to level. |
@sbsail9 - not all vinyl is equal - for example
I cannot say for certain that this is your problem, but since you are experiencing this with the DG I would suspect this to be the case. On another topic - TT isolation is very important and the following approach is pretty easy and affordable to try/implement
The felt feet does a pretty good jop of isolation, but the drawer liner does the rest and stops the two tiles from vibrating sympathetically with any airborne vibrations The thicker the tiles the better - on my previous TT I used 10mm granite tiles My current TT uses 8mm ceramic tiles and it working just fine sitting on top of a cabinet. I have tried many approaches, including the cutting block, but I find this approach to work the best with the TT’s I have owned Regards - Steve
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Thank you all - again. I think I will write to DG. This was my second copy of the Pastoral - ordered directly from Germany. The first one had a bump at that was hard to detect visually in the first 2-3 min. Unplayable with the thump. They sent another immediatly. I should check the first one to see if it exhibits the same surface noise. Just thought of that! |
I have Philips recording (digital) of Bach Toccata & Fuge in D by Daniel Chorzempa both on vinyl and CD and both have very noticeable and annoying rumble. It must be the recording itself then. However the performance and, except for that rumble, the recording are great. sbsail9 you do not have those noises, present on vinyl, present on CD? If so, that would be the vinyl pressing issue. I guess. |
dwette - The Pastoral is, the Dvroak is an earlier version. As of now it is a mystery. I played the first Pastoral (the one with the bump in the intro) and it sounds like the replacement, same rumbly sounds in places. Again, I get very little surface noise sound from most - and with the high end (45 RPM) or other 180g recordings it is hard to hear if present at all. At this point I think I will re-jigger the TT placement just as I probably need to anyway and move on. If I had a $5K TT and $30K electronics and speakers it would be different. Life is too short to spend time chasing this. I'll just wait for Dudamel to do his next Mahler. The 7th was mind blowing!
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@sbsail9 The Original Source series Pastoral sounds just fine on my system. Maybe what you need is better turntable isolation. That can make a very significant difference and solve a lot of problems with vinyl playback. |
The main bearings in low priced turntables often require compromise to meet a price point as well as everything else about them. What you might interpret as groove roar is actually rumble from the poorly machined bearings. As you go up the price ladder manufacture's pay more attention to these things and you will find that the noise floor in higher priced decks drop to imperceptible levels which at comfortable volume levels rivals that of digital formats. Say if you suddenly jump from a Rega Planar 3 to a Planar 8 the difference is dramatic! |
@knock1 the symptoms can still vary from record to record and is much less prevalent with precision main bearings. @mulveling makes some very important points which brings to mind the location of the sub and the KEFs in relation to the turntable and another thought about the tonearm set up and whether or not the op verified the tracking weight, excessive VTF could also be a factor. Inexpensive phono stages as others have mentioned can be all or nothing but usually are deliberately rolled off starting at like a 100Hz or so at a few decibels per octave to protect the amplifier and the speakers its connected to just in this type of situation. One of these or other factors must have been overlooked to experience "sub flutter or pulsing" as the op states which is being amplified by the subs internal amp. |