skyscraper
Good move not buying any speaker junk sourced to china for production.
As above, any dealer/retailer that turns down a (potential) $10K sale is doing well, financially. Your travels revealed the M.O. in which some Audio shops operate. Nice report. Happy Listening!
|
Ozzy, you’re right there. The Magico A3’s can really put a spell on you. Good luck and have fun.
Jafant, thanks for taking an interest. And thanks for describing your listening experience with the Aerial 7T and the Revel. I usually like to be thorough researching and checking into any product I’m buying, especially at these prices. I really should have been more OCD and auditioned more speakers after the amount of reading I did on each of them. Your statements about those two models makes me feel a bit better about not having done so. Those Magico’s did grab me though.
Do you still have Thiels? Shame they went out of business. Would have liked to have heard them.
Well, it’s on to researching integrated amps next.
Mike
|
Congratulation on getting Magico A3.
It could be speaker for your life.
Since it is back-ordered, you have plenty of time to get the amplifier.
One nice starting point is Rogue Cronus Magnum II with tube 100w power.
With some tube rolling it is very good for the price.
I had been happy to use it with my Lansche 4.1 speaker for 6 years.
Good Luck!
Thomas |
fun thread! I have started several " Best speaker for $10,000" threads and like you got recommendations from 1 extreme to the other and tbh I may still not be done. You can't go wrong with magico. Enjoy the music. |
BTW Alon Wolf demo's his A3's with a hegel h30, expensive and hard to find used so I bought an h360 from my 'made in America' dealer' and saved 5 figures for retirement. |
Thanks Thomas, I'll google your amp. I've got a thread going on amps now so I can start to sort that subject out.
Thanks Steve, there sure were a lot of recommendations as you say. I did research each and every one of them though.
Hmm, Alon Wolf recommends the $6000 h360, but then demos with the $15,000 h30. Lots of used car type salesmanship in the audio market I'd say. There's a couple of Hegel dealer hereabouts in Virginia, within 3 or 4 hours anyway.
I hear what you're saying about saving money from your retirement fund, as the Magico's depleted mine by $10,000+. I'm still good though. It would have taken forever to save up for them on Social Security and a pension, so I'm glad to have them now while I can still enjoy them for hopefully another twenty years or so. A $15,000 amp however is out of the question. I can still hear my late wife grousing about my new tractor purchase when I retired. Here's hoping she doesn't read Audiogon in heaven and finds out about the ten grand Magico's. Take it easy Steve.
Mike.
|
I hear a rumour that there maybe covers for the front of the speakers one day. There is magnets behind the front aluminum panel. |
Allangard. Magico does make a unique and good looking grill for the A3's. Costs $600 a pair. I ordered them at the same time as the A3's at Command Performance who had them on their demo model. Check out this link. Give the page a second to load before you scroll down:
https://www.magico.net/product/a3.phpMike
|
Just heard the hard to find Joseph Audio mid model $13k speakers today.
Musical and beautiful. My new #1.
Have yet to hear either the Magico A3s or the Spendor D-9s as they are
Not present at the RMAF show this year. Disappointing. |
I'm in here late but ATC SCM100 and/or Tannoy Kensington GR and be done with it. They will sound better than anything on good recordings and very revealing of bad recordings. But there are a lot of good stuff to listen to... Look for the brands that music is produced on. Avoid speakers that try to flatten the sound and make it always enjoyable or are specifically voiced for one type of music They're never good enough. Just my opinion. Have a nice time! |
Firstnots, woud have liked to have heard some Joseph Audio speakers, but the closest dealer was in Pennsylvania, too far away.. I'm in SW Virgina. I'd be curious how you thought the more expensive Joseph speaker you listened to compared to the Magico A3's if you track a pair down to demo. Those Spendors D-9's are hard to track down to demo too. Their USA distributo, Bluebird something or other, was not very helpful. After two contacts with them I gave up. A couple of days ago a dealer in Richmond I was talking to about amps, said he carried them, but I'm not sure though he has them on his showroom floor for demo. I'll check if I go up there as they were on my short list to have demoed. Good luck on your search. The Magicos might be worth the trouble of tracking down. I sure liked them.
Gosta. Thanks for your input on the Tannoys and ATC's, but I happily purchased the Magico A3's Wednesday.
Mike
|
Tekton Encore. Please read some Tekton reviews. The last one in current StereoTimes. I sold KEF Blade 2 and got them. Exceptional!!!
|
Oleso, I'll take a look.
Mike |
I have heard the Tektons. For the value, they are excellent. However, be aware that it is a large number of drivers (on double impact, it is 11 drivers per speaker). At $3,000 retail, you are basically getting a lot of cheap drivers. If you're not hung up on individually driver quality, this speaker will definitely belt out loud music. Overall, it is pretty darn good, but it's not the highest resolution sound and does have a somewhat dry character.
----
For the money, I would rather get some of the upper end Elac speakers in this price range. I have heard Joseph Audio and they are awsome, but seriously expensive. I actually built some speakers using the exact same Seas Magnesium drivers. For much much less, you can look at Tyler Acoustic Classics. Or Salk makes some speakers using the same Seas magnesium drivers. Those Seas Magnesium drivers are ultra high resolution, and many people don't realize how much of the midrange driver does the high frequencies as well.
----
Other speakers I have heard that are excellent are Audio Physic, B&W D3, Sonus Faber. I heard the Spendor and was not impressed at all. Very blurry sounding, but nice if you want a warm speaker I guess.
|
I guess Jafant had comments on the Aerial 7T and Revel. The Aerial 7T is going to be a very smooth and forgiving speaker, somewhat laid back. If you want detail, this is not the speaker for you. They are radically different than the older generation Aerial Acoustic speakers.
----
I heard the new Revel Performa Be (beryllium). I think they are excellent sounding. Excellent resolution!! and much better than the previous generation Revel. They did not have the brightness issue from the older Revel metal dome tweeters. The newer Performa Be also had some amazingly deep and strong bass -- I was extremely impressed. At $10k a pair, I would actually put this in my own list, that is if I ever decided to move away from B&W D3 and Revel came out with a Be center channel! lol.
|
Did I miss something or the OP already ordered the speakers? Why people keep giving recommendations on speakers? How can you compare Tektons with Magico? Oh yeah.... McDonalds does great food for the money too 😉 |
Yeah, I've ordered the Magico A3's already, but don't mind the continued suggestions. Better than people throwing bricks at you.
Mike |
|
@thyname I guess you don't know much about Tektons. Please read some reviews while you have some time hanging out at McDonalds. Learn before you speak...
|
Well Magico is a very well made speaker so congrats on your purchase. I do have an issue with the statement "junk sourced from China " remarks about the Revel, it is unfair and discredits a very, very good speaker. The new f228 be is astounding for the price, and I am very familiar with the highest end audio availible regardless of cost if that means anything. I can listen to hundred thousand dollar plus speakers and have access to systems that excede half a million dollars when ever I want. I am not trying to one up anyone or brag it's just the truth. The R&D that went into the 228be and the measured performance is world class, not just for its price point but regardless of cost. |
I just looked on the back of my Revel 228 be and it is made in Indonesia, which is not China. I can only think how much more expensive they would be if made in the USA. It would still be cool to have a handmade speaker from California, like they used to be, and Magico still is. I love the construction quality of every Magico I have listened to. I think Magico, like Revel, can sound awesome or awful depending on set up and the gear behind them. Low distortion speakers are usually like that. |
skyscraper
Indeed. Good to read that you have found your "pair" of loudspeakers. Nice score. Hope you quest for an integrated is easier. Keep me posted as you build a system around the A3. Happy Listening!
|
Thanks Jafant. I've got another longish thread going in the Audiogon Amps section trying to learn the ins and out of integrated amps, and what models to look at. That's another steep learning curve.
Chriissian, I don't think I was the one making the Chinese junk statement, although it sounds like something that might come out my mouth. I've been burned so many times by so many Chinese products of all sorts, I'm leery of spending money on anything from there. I've no doubt your Revels are of the highest quality, and the F228BE's were high up on my short list. You know the expression, "once bitten twice shy". That's where I'm at with any Chinese products. It's definitely not all junk, but so much of it is, you can't possibly ignore it.
As it is, I may, end up getting a Chinese-made Hegel H360 amp in spite of myself, not yet having found a suitable alternative in my price range. I'm not done looking yet though. And I've no idea what may be going on over in Indonesia either, other than the poor orangutans are in rough shape. Enjoy your Revels, and take it easy.
Mike
Time for this thread to RIP. Thanks again all. |
I don’t need to read reviews on Tektons. I used to own them. The Double Impact Se. For a whole three months
@olesno
|
No you didn't say that, someone else on the thread did that. Sorry for the confusion. Revel has their own factory in Indonesia, so the quality control is very high. I have heard nothing but great things about Magico s3 speakers so congrats on your purchase, they look awsome. |
Thanks Chrissain. I would have liked to have heard the Revel’s. I read very good reviews on them too. We both made good choices.
Mike |
skyscraper,
How long will it take for the A3's to arrive?
Also, did you have to pay in full in advance? I hate that.
I'm going to audition them this Saturday.
Thanks,
ozzy
|
@ozzy I also did a recent road trip and decided to buy the A3. I did not order it, I will order in early 2019. I doubt a full payment is required. My dealer had none in stock.
I was going to get Mark Levinson 585 to power it but now will switch to the Lynngdorf 3400 because I will need room correction. Never heard the Lyngdorf but the ML 585 is great with the A3.
Please post your opinions on the demo and the amplification used.
In my demo I heard the following with the A3:
1) Mark Levinson 523/536 - Fantastic sound
3) Mark Levinson 585 - Really good sound
3) Benchmark AHB2 + DAC3L - Very good but not at 585 level |
Ozzy, I was informed they should be in February when I got them a couple of weeks ago. Apparently they’re selling quite well which is a good sign I suppose. I paid one half down on them.
Where will you be going to hear them? I was fortunate that the dealer I went to had the optional grills so I could see them. They look nicer with them if you can afford the $600 up charge. I bet you’ll like the A’3’s. I honestly liked them more than some other more expensive speakers I’ve heard. Very revealing, exacting sound with a tight punch that sets them apart. I’m no reviewer, but you’ll see when you listen to them. Only my uneducated taste though. Have fun.
Mike |
skyscraper, yyzsantabarbara,
Thanks for the reply. I agree that the grills look quite nice.
First I need to hear the speakers, I also want to hear the Focal Sopra 3's, the dealer I'm going to has both on display.
If both speakers are impressive, then the following weekend I will bring my Bob Carver Raven 350 tube amps to try with them.
I am a bit concerned with both of these speakers impedance and whether they will work well with tube amps.
ozzy
|
Ozzy, when researching tubes versus solid state amp for the Magico A3's I've found opinions all over the place. I've read where people point out the Magico A3's perform well, and may even have been designed utilizing solid state amps. Alon Wolf does recommend the solid state Hegel H360 to go with them.
On the other hand, I've read that the A3's are not "warm" sounding and would definitely benefit from pairing with a tube amp. I'd be interested in hearing what your opinion is if you demo your Carver Raven 350 tube amp with them. I ended up purchasing a Luxman 507ux Mark II solid state integrated amp to go with them since Mr. Wolf had recommended the solid state Hegel integrated. But I did not demo a tube amp with them and would have liked to have in retrospect. (I didn't get the higher output Hegels themselves because I mistrust Chinese manufacturing practices.)
I looked up your Ravens and they were listed as providing 400 watts into 4 ohms which is well above the 50-300 watts into 4 ohms impedance that Magico recommends for the A3's, and exactly the maximum output of the Hegel H360's. (My Luxmans max out at 210 watts into 4 ohms) So you would think they'd have enough juice to power the Magicos, but maybe other factors are just as important. I really don't know.
I'll bet your Raven 350's will last forever. My Carver designed Phase Linear equipment is still running strong after forty years and my sisters all-Carver outfit the same. Good luck and happy hunting. Keep us posted.
Mike
|
Mike, in the mean time one thing you could do is to clean your records. The best value with excellent results is Okki Nokki $500 cleaning machine with Audio Intelligent fluids. You will want solution #15 - precleaner followed by three step cleaning solutions - enzyme, archivist formulation and pure water. Also get MA Recordings inner sleeves directly from them and four Disc Doctor brushes - one for each fluid. Ultrasonic machines could get you a little further but they are not necessary and expensive.
The key to really clean records is soaking them with #15, then enzyme, then archivist solution. And the last step is double water rinse, yes double or triple. Soak for 5-7 minutes with each fluid except water, vacuum off. Repeat if the records were very dirty to begin with. Last step is always water rinse, this is very important. When spreading fluids do five revolutions clockwise, then five revolution counterclockwise, then again five revolutions clockwise. Not too much fluids but not too little, you'll figure it out.
Also get Japanese mylar outer sleeves. I also treat all my records with LAST record preservative, after cleaning. You can do it on the machine too - three revolutions counterclockwise.
It sounds very labor intensive but it is not that bad, and you don't have to do it often. I personally clean records with three steps after 10-15 plays, I use #15 precleaner only once. In addition get Lyra stylus cleaner, great stuff. Clean the stylus before playing each side or at least before playing each record. Besides good sound it will significantly prolong the life of both stylus and records. Be careful with stylus cleaning, back to forth gentle motions under adequate lightening conditions. Really clean records is big system upgrade. Pay no attention to how records look, you can't see dirt in the grooves, clean them all equally well. |
And, yes, after you have cleaned a record, though it may look dry, you better air dry it for 25-30 minutes just to be on the safe side. Turn a coffee mug over, put it on the table and place a record on it ! Make sure it is clean and dry not to damage the label.
When vacuuming off do two and half revolutions at a time, no more or you can damage the machine and get static on your records. |
Skyscraper congratulations on the Luxman Magico combo, it will sound very nice. I see you picked up the amp, do you have any speakers to hook it up to? I didn't read the whole thread so assume you do and it would be nice to get your impression on the Luxman. Enjoy!
|
Bjesien, Thank you. I’ve Magico A3 speakers on back order, due in this coming February. I’ll hook the Luxman up to my old Dahlquist DQ10’s in the meantime. I’ll post how it sounds when the Magico’s arrive for sure. I spoke to a Luxman tech today who informed me they are using the Magico A3’s to demo their amps at audio shows. I was pleased to hear that, so they should be nicely matched.
Inna, thanks for the advice on record cleaners. The salesperson who sold me the Luxman recommended the Okki Nokki too. I do have 99% of my records in soft plastic, not sure if they are Mylar, inner sleeves. They probably do all need a good washing though, since they’ve been around for so long, even if they have been treated well. I’ll have to get some of the Lyra stylus cleaner you recommend. I ran out of stylus cleaner many years ago and have been dry brushing since. I might have used rubbing alcohol once or twice on my B&O’s stylus. Also I accidentally located my Zerostat antistatic gun that’s been missing for a decade or so, so I’ll start using that again too.
Mike |
Inner sleeves are by MA Recordings. You, of course want to put your just cleaned records in new clean inner sleeves. You only need to LAST records once, this stuff has been proven by many for 30 years or so. |
skyscraper,
Thanks for your trip report. I guess we all felt like we were getting ready for the road trip with you and are now happy when the mission has been accomplished. You are making me want to go and audition Magicos which no review so far has incited me to do. And all the reviews were really good.
I am with you on being cautious about products from China but will echo whoever mentioned that Revels are from Indonesia. I have no idea what that practically means and I think Magicos are obvious better choice in your case (don't you see how happy you already are and you do not even have them yet?), but I do have Revels although 208 and not 228. No quality issues whatsoever. Everything seems to be done as good as it gets. I did audition 228 recently and they are even better when it comes to build. And sound, of course. I am writing this just in case someone is looking for speakers and having similar doubts. And I dismissed Sonus-Fabers as a piece of low quality junk (build, not sound). I am sure Magicos are in their own league, though. Congrats!
Being 66, you will love your Luxman. Admit it, you liked the looks. I confess, I have one, too and it hit the receptor that still has Rotel RA-414 of my childhood carved as "the amplifier". Decent sound does not hurt, either, but I just love looking at it while it is playing.
In some crazy self-indulgent way, I am glad you found my warnings about streaming true (I was the one who repeatedly mentioned that "problem" earlier in the thread). The dealer you had bad experience with is the one that made me decide to let you know about it in the first place. Well, I did not buy from them, either.
How do you manage to wait until February? You even have a new amplifier. You are way more stoic than many of us would be in your shoes, I guess. I will follow your other thread and chime in if there is something useful I think I could contribute.
Congratulations again!
|
He can start making his new amp work right away - he's got speakers and cd player. |
Thanks Glupson,. Your post was a pleasure to read. Like you, I do like the retro looks of the Luxman. And who wouldn’t love those big old VU meters. The Luxmans are solidly constructed as well. The quality control is obvious inside and out and bodes well for how well the Luxman should stand up over time. The aluminum clad Magico’s looked solid as a rock too. Which Luxman amp do you have?
You were exactly right about streaming only audio stores. They must be doing well to afford to turn away analog fans.
I can’t wait until February either to hook those Magico’s up either. Gives me something to look forward to.
Please feel free to chime in on my other thread. I need to be enlightened on modern audio cables, where that thread on amps has ended up landing. I’ve been sorry to discover my retro zip cords just aren’t cutting it anymore. Take care,
Inna, you are correct, My old Dahlquist DQ10’s will get a few months of high quality input, before they’re supplanted.
Mike
|
Inna I read a Stereophile review of the LAST record preservative. Very interesting. About how many records can you treat with one bottle of LAST? Music Direct claims you can clean 80-90 albums with one bottle, but they sell three different size bottles and don't specify which one they're referring to.
Mike |
Mike, I think I got 60 records or so out of the smallest bottle. |
Congrats, skyscraper. I have A3’s on order, too. I’m pairing them with Odyssey Khartago monoblocks and a Rogue tube preamp for a bit of analog magic. Sources are a Clearaudio Concept turntable through a Musical Surroundings Nova ii and a Bluesound Node through an Arcam irDAC. My rig already sounds great to my ears, and I suspect the A3’s will be spectacular. |
I like Needle Doctor and Elusive Disc more, Music Direct okay. |
As a bonus, records treated with LAST sound a touch better. This is a good test for your system and your hearing. I only treat records that I play quite often, once a month is often enough. |
Hello. I know how important listen to quality music even you on a trip. I use one site https://www.bestadvisor.com/best-computer-speakers . There you can choose and buy a speaker. This site has different kinds of it. And about the price, very wide choice. |
skyscraper
Thanks for the update. Luxman is gaining serious ground here in the U.S.
I would not mind getting an audition myself. Happy Listening!
|
Skyscraper,
As one of the earliest purchasers and recipients of the A3's, may I offer a few suggestions to maximize their startling sound quality:
1. They take a long time to break in -- 100-200 hours -- so be patient if they don't sound as good as they did in the showroom. They will, if not better.2. They have deep, taut and musical bass, but you need an amp with the "cojones" to bring out and control that bass. I use a Krell FPB 300cx, which certainly does the trick. I would look to the used market for this amp or its equivalent. Don't stint on quality power.
3. They are sensitive to speaker cable. I use Audience AU 24 SX cables and they interact well with the speakers. I am about to substitute my old Nordost Valhallas and check out how they sound, but I expect they will be too "hot." I would characterize the A3's as "lively" speakers, which is not to say any frequency range is emphasized, only that they are not "laid back."4. Though they weigh 110 lbs. each and are a (grizzly) bear to move, speaker placement and toe-in make a dramatic difference in their sound. Find a strong helper and experiment until you get the sound you like; you spent a lot of money on the speakers and it will be well worth the effort.
Enjoy. I am still discovering the A3's wonders. With the present aluminum tariffs, I do not see how Magico can hold the price on these, which are a fantastic audio bargain to begin with.
Neal
|
Neal, thanks for the advice. I did recently end up getting the Luxman 507uX Mark II with 210 watt per channel into 4 ohms which I hope should be sufficient to drive them. That adventure was documented on my recent amp thread which ended up morphing into a speaker cables thread. I did call Krell which Magico recommended prior to settling on the Luxman. Magico is currently demoing at shows with the Luxman 509(?), I think, which is one model higher up their line of integrated amps.
I looked up a review of your Audience 24SX cables. Sounds like you made a good choice there, although one that’s unfortunately over twice my $1000 budget. Magico recommended Audioquest Rocket 88’s, and MIT or Transparent speaker cables. I might end up with the Rocket 88’s because Magico uses them at their show demos, or their next one up their line, Castle Rocks, if I can find a pair used for the same money.
I’m looking forward to their arrival in February, but not to having to haul both upstairs. Glad to hear you like your’s. I’ve been researching Shunyata and Audioquest power conditioners to give them a yet cleaner, noise free sound. Take it easy,
Mike
Names2, I’ll check out your site.
Omargaffar, sounds like you’ll have a great sounding system with all those goodies. Any idea when your are supposed to arrive?
Inna, thanks for the info on the LAST record treatmnet..
Mike |
skyscraper,
I'm in a similar situation to yours when you started this thread (looking to upgrade speakers with a max $10K budget), and so have followed your journey with great interest and have learned a great deal from all the discussions, especially as my knowledge about high-end audio is quite limited.
I don't mean to re-open the discussion, but wondered if you'd be willing to share: (a) the list of the 11 speakers that were on your long shortlist, and (b) whatever template (set of questions/criteria/whatever) you used to make comparison notes on speakers.
[In case this is relevant context: I only recently auditioned my first (for me) high-end speakers (GoldenEar Triton Reference), wasn't very impressed by the improvement over my current GE Triton 7's + Hsu Research subwoofer, and so am going down the rabbit-hole, and thinking about many of the same speakers you were. But auditioning for me will require many separate trips over an extended period of time, as I'm in a small midwest town, and different speakers are carried by numerous different dealers scattered in a 3-4 hour radius.]
Thanks,
otinkyad |
Otinkyad, The speakers on my list were:
Aerial Acoustics 7T $11,000.00
Legacy Focus SE $10,600.00
Magico A3 $9,800.00
Monitor Audio PL200 II $11,500.00
Paradigm Persona 3F $10,000.00
ProAc D48r $10,900.00
Revel F228BE $10,000.00
Spendor D9 $10,000.00
Vandersteen Treo CT $8,400.00
VonSchweikert Endeavor E3 Mk2 $8,000.00
Devore Gibbon Super 9 $9,9000
There was also a Joseph Audio model I had listed, but the closest dealer was just too far away in Pennsylvania. I had the Golden Ear Triton Reference on the list too but no dealers nearby either.
I’ve since thrown all my notes away, but some of the things I was looking at was how clear and detailed their presentation was, what equipment was being used to demo them. You have to insist, and best call ahead of time, if you want them demoed with equipment similar to what you have or plan to get,. Otherwise they often use way better amps and sources than you’ll ever be able to get. Some refuse to even do that.
I took notes on how tight the bass response was, the quality of the upper midrange and treble response. Also their appearance, size, and how well they’d fit into our home without clashing with its furnishings. A lot of the towers especially are big, garish and imposing looking. I also had to find out how close they could be placed to a wall, as I had to place them close as possible, and whether they were ported or not, as I was avoiding ported ones due to the wall closeness issue. I had dealers move the speakers as close to the wall as possible, even when I could see the were getting annoyed as they can weigh a ton and took notes on that.
I also took notes on how each recording I brought along sounded as well as a couple I had them pick out, that they knew would show off the speakers well. There might of been other things I’m not recalling but that should give you a good start. Also overall impressions and anything distinctive about their sound. I also noted how well they sounded at varied sound levels and from outside the room for reasons explained in the thread by others.
Happy hunting. It’s a lot of fun. Watch out and note if some dealers are getting slick or not being helpful, because you might have to deal with them again if you have any problems. I ran into a couple of them. I noted how the speakers would be shipped if not in stock. If you're hours away from the store they can find out for you if the manufacturer will direct ship to your house. Magico will they found out, which is what I'm having done. Hope this helps.
Mike |
