You will certainly get an improvement with a separate phono stage.
I own the Herron VTPH-2A, which is out of your price range.
Of the stages I've personally heard, I can recommend a short list of new products.
Musical Surroundings Nova III
Parasound JC 3 Jr
Sutherland Insight
All are very good sounding preamps with options for virtually any cartridge you might want in the future.
There are undoubtedly many others in this range, plus many more if you are willing to go pre-owned.
At this price point, I would personally stay away from tube stages, unless I were willing to buy on the pre-owned market. That doesn't mean you should.
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The phonostage in the PL is equivalent to a $200 outboard phono stage-subjectively. You can buy a more versatile unit for that price meaning choice of cartridge is greater. The options with the on board phonostage is a cart with a 2.5volt output meaning trying a moving coil is limited to hi output models.
I had Prologue 2 years ago with the option. $1500 will get you noticeable SQ improvement, especially used. That means finding something that retailed for double. The SS/tube debate will have you more confused. Decide which you would like to try and just get it. |
mabonn, the price range you are at makes this about as easy as can be- the Decware ZP3 is darn near unbeatable. I am another happy Herron owner but Keith made his last one last week and anyway they are too expensive even used. The Decware is perfect, new, lifetime warranty, and with your MM cart you will not even need a SUT. But if you grow and upgrade into MC then Decware has a SUT program that makes this easy. So not a lot of things you can do one and done but this may well be all you need for a good long time. https://www.decware.com/newsite/ZP3.htmDirect sales only, so you are getting what would retail for $3k to $4k for $1395. Search around. You will have to look for actual user comments because they do not give these things away for good reviews, people have to actually buy them. When you are disappointed at the wait times for a build realize this is the way it is with the really good stuff. Crap is always just sitting around waiting for some fool to come along. The good stuff people ferret it out and the skilled craftsmanship necessary to make it is barely enough to meet the demand. |
Hagerman Trumpet MC. Save yourself $400. Fantastic value and pre. |
"Hagerman Trumpet MC."
That looks like solid buy. I suspect the $400 difference of the Decware will get you a subjectively more "organic" presentation, since there isn't a transistor in the mix. It's only MM, so more investment(step up/IC's) needed for LOMC, so Trumpet wins. Decware does look cool.
My tweaky itch would drive me to look for an LPS for the Hagerman. Maybe just waste of money, but you never know... |
Keith made his last one last week He hasn't made mine yet. If you're patient, you may find a used Manley Chinook right around your budget. |
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@simao
Did you receive yours yet?
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Nobody said Keith is done, but it sounds like his current phono stage is. |
No, he told me he was down to the last two, that was a little while ago, I figured by now he must be done. But turns out he still has a few more to build. In any case it is not that Keith Herron is done, it is just that he won't be ordering parts for another run.
The way this stuff works, things like faceplates are one of the more expensive parts, and unlike other parts they can only be used on the one component. So he has to order a decent size production run or the costs are prohibitive. Even then it ain't cheap. That's not the only thing, just one of the bigger ones. Apparently when he looked at the costs of another run and then ran the numbers for what that would imply in terms of profits or final sales price it no longer makes sense.
He is still around and active and building and probably will be for a while yet. Anyone wants one, there are only 425 out there, or should I say that will be out there when he is done. Big_greg yours may be P2423A or something like that. Would have to go look and see what mine is. Select group, that's for sure. |
I still have parts for a couple more VTPH-2As, but I have decided not to invest in more. - Keith Herron
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@600ohms thanks for the clarification, Mr. Herron. I sent you an email earlier today. |
Keith - thanks for taking great care of me and others! The wood faceplate is lovely as you know :-)
@600 |
@bkeske. Yes. And was happily surprised at how much of a difference it is from the already formidable as LFD LE I have. Still burning it in. |
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@chakster TBH, I tested the gold note and the LFD side by side in my system for about a week and with several listening buddies over, and the LFD simply destroyed the gold note no matter what settings I had the Gold note on. It's a fine preemplifier, and it has a lot of flexibility, but I was surprised at how inferior a performance it was compared to the LFD. But then again, that was just one side by side in one system, so obviously not applicable to everything |
@simao @bkeske. Yes. And was happily surprised at how much of a difference it is from the already formidable as LFD LE I have. Still burning it in. Fantastic. Yea, made an immediate impression on me as well, but really, give the Hagerman time, it really will blossom more with burn-in. I’m more and more happy with the Trumpet. |
No thanks for MC mudding the waters. |
@chakster TBH, I tested the gold note and the LFD side by side in my system for about a week and with several listening buddies over, and the LFD simply destroyed the gold note no matter what settings I had the Gold note on. It's a fine preemplifier, and it has a lot of flexibility, but I was surprised at how inferior a performance it was compared to the LFD. But then again, that was just one side by side in one system, so obviously not applicable to everything. @simao I'm using PH-10 with PS-10 for Fidelity-Research FR-7f and it's very impressive, but I have many more phono stages, headmp, current-injection type, and sut. It's really hard to choose just one. JLTi is another excellent phono stage for MM and MC. |
@chakster I'd never heard of JLTi until you mentioned it above. Will look into it. And also, I wasn't trying to imply that the pH 10 was a bad filling stage by any means. It really is phenomenal and I got one with full anticipation of loving it, which I did - until I compared with the LFD. |
@simao Well, it’s an old brand. Joe Rasmussen is the man behind JLTi, he’s an old partner of Allen Wright. Below is a part of the story from Joe’s website:
“I met the late Allen Wright (1947-2011) in 1975 at a Hi-Fi Show at The Pavilion in Sydney Showgrounds. The Pavilion has since been converted to a large movie studio where the Matrix movies were shot as well as the last two Star Wars movies. Allen was demoing stacked Quads and was the sound of the show by a country mile. This started a 36 year association that sadly ended in 2011.
Allen had identified a particular device used for video purposes, low noise, no internal compensation and no feedback required. As its noise specification was suitably low with low source impedance, a la Moving Coil cartridges, it was decided this could potentially make for an interesting Moving Coil Phono Stage. As Allen was busy with moving his business from Munich in Germany to Switzerland, I took it upon myself to do the actual development and produce working proto-types. Some of these were dispersed locally here in Australia and also a number of them went to the US, the first going to Roger S. Gordon, reviewer for Positive Feedback.
Eventually the production of the phono stage went to Switzerland using much fancier metalwork. It was also given the name JLTi Phono, where JLTi stands for Just Listen To It. On a cost versus performance, its audio quality is unmatched, and that is not just our opinion (old review here).”
** From myself I can only add that the latest JLTi is heavily upgraded mk5 version in a simpler box (for less money). For my version I asked Joe for a special mod to let me use optional loading not only for MC, but also for MM cartridges (Normally I use 47k Ohm or 100k Ohm for MM). |
Grab MAGI Phonomenal for sale in Agon now.
It is at least as good as my Allnic H1202.
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Thanks for all your recommendations.
My thinking is evolving. I am considering stretching my budget to $2,500 and going for the PS Audio Stellar phono preamp.
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Mabonn, not a good idea. That money will get you a Sutherland 20/20 which is a far superior phono stage. You are also not far off from a Parasound JC3+ which competes with phono stages costing over $10,000. John Curl is an amazing engineer. If my Audio Research died today that is what I would get (with my current allowance) |
Do yourself a favor and find yourself a used Artemis Labs Ph-1. This is an all-tubed design providing roughly 52 dB of gain without the use of SUT’s or FETS/Solid State gain devices! Pure tube, with a natural organic tone to voice and acoustic musical instruments; and dynamics that can make you jump. It gives you the ability to adjust loading to your liking from 50 Ohms to 47500 Ohms by simply adding resistors in parallel via zif sockets on the back panel. ***I personally would not ever buy a phono stage that didn’t offer you the ability of having an infinite customization of it’s load impedance. Being able to definitively match your specific cartridge can certainly make the difference from good to outstanding sound reproduction.*** It also utilizes readily available small signal triode tubes from the 6np1, 12AX7, and 5687 families. This will work great with medium to high output Moving Coil cartridges to Moving Magnet cartridges all on it own, or you can certainly add an outboard SUT if you wish to use low output MC’s. I think I paid about $3000 for mine new, but I would think you could find a nice used example in your price range. I currently have the latest reference level 5 Wavestream Kinetics Deluxe phono amp $8995 (which also is an all tube design eschewing the use of SUT’s/FETS and also has adjustable loading on the back panel), but I can’t imagine letting my Artemis Labs PH-1 go. I will keep it for either back up use duties or if I ever set up a secondary analog system.... that’s how much I love it! Dick Olsher gave a great review of this phono stage in http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0805/artemisph1.htm if you’d like to learn more about it. Best wishes, Don |
No need for a separate power supply for the Hagerman (Trumpet MC) wall wart. The circuit is designed around canceling noise with a wall wart.
I have a phono pre with a separate power supply and it gets noisy with MC carts. Not with the Hagerman. I turned the volume all the way up and was able to hear a subtle low frequency pulse. I pushed the Hagerman back 4" and it disappeared into a subtle hiss. I have a crowded rack so this is an achievement.
Load and gain is adjusted on the front. Soooooo much easier turning knobs than messing with dip switches.
Can’t afford the Herron? Try the Hagerman Trumpet MC. It seems to be at that level for about a hair over $1000.
It has a large, sweet, organic presentation. Excellent bass.
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Another pitch in for the Hagerman Trumpet MC. Really good for the money!! Sweet, warm and open sound.
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