Reference disc player...UDP 205 or Marantz?

@tomcarr - when you get it (I am sure I put this explanation farther up the thread...but I'll summarize again): back the output volume off in the settings to something else than 100%. I really thought it was harsh at 100. I have mine set at 90%. Break-In/Warm-up/whatever you want to call it 'was real' in this box. Definitely filled out the sound after a few hours. I supposed some fancy pink noise disc would probably be the best for that purpose. I used Beethoven's 9th symphony, on repeat, for a couple days (mostly because I wasn't there to listen to it).  I wish I could say the 5 or so digital filters (really, DAC processing algorithms) were drastically different...they seem extremely slight to me. I'm still 'playing' with the different ones. The 205 has been out long enough now (I got it in May?) that I bet there are plenty of opinions on the 'net on which one is best. I'll probably just pick one that "people like" and live with it for a while.
Enjoy!!

Boneman, thank you for your response and well-thought-out comments. Yes, I can get a feel for the sound based on what you've said. Glad to hear you are enjoying your silver discs so much. I'm pretty sure I'm going to love a 205.

Tom

@tomcarr , I wish I could expound intelligently for you - but I can't. The 205 is my first Oppo. I'm comparing it to some older (albeit in that 'legendary' category) CD players with the Philips guts and DAC's, as well as a newer TASCAM, which sucked in comparison (but, I really didn't care nor give much credit to digital). I primarily listened to analog (LP and R2R) so digital took a back seat. Maybe the highest praise is that I'm listening more to my CD's, DVD-A and SACD's than ever - and every time it's like I've got a new album! I'm actually preferring most of the digitally recorded albums on shiny disc, more than a digital sourced LP. FWIW, I'm running balanced cables to my Jeff Rowland gear, feeding a pair of Tannoy's. Not exactly a "bright" system by any stretch. I find the sound very pleasant, engaging in the midrange, and completely non-fatiguing. Hope that helps. 

@boneman73, I love my 103 and have considered the 105, now the 205. Are you able to give me any advice on the sound quality improvement?
Thank you,

Tom

Looking forward to learning about what you hear, and what you decide to keep.

Tom

I re-read my comment and I'm afraid it may have come off as snarky! Not meant to be!!  Disclaimer: I own the -205 and love it! 

@tomcarr, boneman, and pokey....

Interesting. Good comments, thanks for that. I like a warm sound, good midrange, but not rolled off highs. The Oppo sound might appeal to me after all, especially with my speakers. 

What the heck? I can always return it! I will report back, but I think I will take the plunge.

@tomcarr
@jonasandezekeil

This is the best choice. I've owned a number of "mid-fi" CD  players and the Oppo 105 beats them all, including the Cambridge Audio 840C; and it wasn't even close for me. The Oppo was much better across the board. I have not heard the 205 yet but have read it is supposed to be a bit better. Please also realize that none of these players mentioned are reference.

I've heard the Marantz  SA-14S1. Though the word reference is used in the title, it is in no way reference. I have not heard the Marantz in my system, but it was pretty uninspiring in the Marten/Luxman system I auditioned it in a few months ago. The Marantz house sound, to me, is smooth but rolled off; no shimmer, sparkle, snap. Not for me. I've had two or three Marantz players; as a side note, all had to have the disc mechanism replaced.

Buy the 205 and also whatever else you think you might like. Compare them for up to 30 days (whatever the return period is) and return the one you like less.

Tom

@jonasandezekiel .... given your statement about it being a mid-fi price point, I think you should definitely go with another player. I bet the "what if" will constantly be in the back of your head, and that may not be a very enjoyable place to listen! 

@ jonasandezekiel,
Why don't you try the Oppo 205? If you don't like it, you can return it and go with the Marantz.

Yeah, but I just can't get over the fact that it's a mid-fi priced disc player, and that it plays video too. It's almost a mantra that you can't get true reference two channel from a player that does video as well, so reasonably priced. Something doesn't seem right.

I think my Oppo 103 sounds very good with my Krell integrated and Vandersteen 2Cs. I only use it for 2-ch audio. I like being able to play all disc formats. Service information is top-notch. The only downside is it's a little slow to respond to inputs from the remote. I'm planning to purchase the 205 based on owner's statements it sounds even better. Stereophile rates the 103 class B, the 105 class A.

Tom

Highstream, I was actually considering the marantz 14s1 or the Oppo, but i understand your point.

A good buddy of mine, whose opinion I respect, highly recommends the Oppo, just on its specs alone. I'm thinking about getting off the pot, and just buying it. And if I don't like I can return it. 

@ haolunfan - Something not mentioned here is that all electronics (and cables) need burn in, typically 400-500 hours, i.e., about three weeks. If you are experienced and have good ears, you can tell a lot about a unit after about 24 hours, but soon after that, until roughly 300 hours in, the sound quality will be all over the place, often not very listenable, until it starts settling down.  

Both the Marantz 8005 and Oppo 203/205 are good, just have different functions. By concentrating on music, the Marantz isn't encumbered with the interference of video circuitry, which typically undermines the sound to some degree. If you want video in the same unit, then the Oppo is a very good player/dac combo, especially for the price. Good mods make it even better.

I think what Mahler123 meant to say was that the Oppo 105D does not stream DSD from external sources.  The 205 does.  If he truly thinks the Oppo 105D does not stream DSD from SACD disks, then he is overlooking a setting in setup that allows the user to chose whether of not to output DSD or convert to 192/24 PCM in the digital output.

In any case, the Oppo105D has very fine analog output especially beefed up for the stereo output jacks, so there is always that option.  To me it sounds better anyway.

To clarify...the Oppo 105 does play DSD, but the Bryston BDA 3 is one of the few DACs that can take the DSD stream from an SACD, and Oppo is one of the few SACD players that can be configured to output it....both the 105 and 205

Ok....my mistake, thanks for letting me down easy and not letting me look too foolish. So, the cost of the mods are considerably more reasonable then for a ModWright mod.

Sounds tempting, as well as a little confusing. But I'm interested.

@jonasandezekiel - That reply was from Ric Schultz -  Electronic Visionary Systems (EVS). He's one of the long time mod'rs, previously manufactured audio products including a well regarded DAC. The website for Ric/EVS is www.tweakaudio.com. He's one of the good guys IHMO....

Who is doing your mods?

I will be doing the same mods to the Oppo 205 as I do now to the Oppo Sonica DAC.  Should be ready in about 3-4 weeks.  Price is $800 plus for the mods. 

Enjoy.

I just unpacked it.  First impression (I have no idea if this thing has a burn in period.  I assume the DAC does.) is it's dead quiet and MUCH more detailed than the BDP-93 it's replacing.  Lots of space between instruments, timbre on voices and strings are excellent.  I'm playing Yo Yo Ma "Appalachian Journey" and it's like a new album to me.  

All this is through a Belles Aria integrated and a pair of KEF LS50s.  Once my Don Sachs equipment and my single driver speakers show up I'm sure there will be exponential improvement.

I'd like to know what you think, @firstgrowth .  @jonasandezekiel , I hope you take advantage of the return policy from Oppo and find a place to with the same return policy on the Marantz. I think think the only way to decide is to spend some time with both. I own the Oppo (-205) and have had it for a while. Once you get it - make sure to 'dive into' the settings. Mine came with 'Brick Wall' as filter; someone on a different thread corrected me and said it was not the default but more of a diagnostic filter. Whatever it is, it was on it when it was delivered from factory. I've listened to a bunch of the filters and I don't think there is a drastic difference between them; I've since moved away from the brick wall, and landed on a slow -something-filter. Another tip (though YMMV): I found the '100% output' very bright; I turned variable output on and set it at 90 and it was much more musical. I think the 'max output' seems to drive the output stage too much. I may very well be the combo of my pre-amp, hence "YMMV" :) Enjoy the journey....

Sounds like the only way to do it, apart from getting opinions on here. 
Post something to let me know what you think. I may go the other way, and just get a pure sacd cd player because I already have a very good bluray player.

I'm going to find out if it lives up to the hype.  I figure $1300 isn't crazy money and Oppo offers a 30 day money back policy.  If I hate it, it goes back.  If it's really really good I'll live with it for a while and see if I want to have it modded.

I have been enjoying my PS Audio DirectStream DAC + transport, connected with an I2S (HDMI) cable and to my ears, the best digital I've ever heard.

Firstgrowth...That's at the center of my question. Does oppo really live up to its hype, and can you really find a world beating disc player for such a low price?
Or is marantz still the better choice?

Gcp...you own the marantz 14s1?

I recently purchased the Oppo UDP-205 to use strictly for a modest SACD collection.  It does not decode HDCD which is disappointing, but I suppose it's to keep costs down.  A friend and I compared an Oppo BDP-95 with a Cambridge CXU with the Oppo UDP-205 for SACD and the 205 wins hands down.  On SACD it is superb.
However, I feel the 205 is sadly lacking in CD playback.  I presently use a Cambridge CXC transport and Benchmark DAC2 for CD's and am very impressed with the sound quality.  Probably the error correction on the transport makes a huge difference.
Am wondering if anyone else has experience with the Cambridge CXC transport and what DAC it is coupled with.

It's not snobery rather opinion based on experience I offer. I own the Marantz and Oppo 105 with some mods. The OPPO is a superb video player. The Marantz and OPPO sound different and are both nothing special as CD players. Expand your search. For example, you buy far better quality and performance machines  when you buy a used bel canto CD2, PL2 or PL-1 or Woo Audio transport and DAC.  I own them too. There are no doubt other better CD playback options. Experience based opinion and suggestions not snobery. All the best with your selection decisiion.. Namaste. 

@pirius   If you are stating that Modwright is replacing the Marantz drive in its modded machines with an Oppo  drive I believe you are incorrect.  In fact, the quality of the Marantz drive and overall circuit layout is what Dan Wright found attractive, leading him to develop a mod for it.

One of Oppo's real strengths is in the quality of it's drive mechanisms. Several high end companies purchase use licenses from Oppo  to use their drive mechanism in their ultra-high end players. In essence, that is what Modwright has done.

One thing to keep in mind is if you have a standalone DAC, you may want to consider the 203 which  purports to be essentially the same circuit for CD as the 205 but without a built-in DAC. You can then run the 203 into your DAC. The 203 is less than half the price of the 205.

I have a bdp105d with EVS mods on the 2 channel board and the sound is outstanding. The original unmodded unit sounds quite good for the price, but I eventually wanted better articulate bass and clarity throughout. The mod did just that. I also have an Audio Note 3.1 balanced tube dac that sounds better than the modded Oppo, but not by much. I have never heard the Marantz, but, for my money, I would go for the Oppo in home audition, and make your decision. The EVS mod was $700, which was a great price. I don’t know if Ric at EVS is modding the 205 though.
I have no, nor have I ever had any affiliation with Oppo, EVS or Marantz. 

I agree with Hasmato. Most of your responders are oppo owners.  They never did ab testing for  both units. I have owned the oppo sonica dac for a week and returned the unit after a week.  I bought it because all the great reviews I have read. But I found my current Cambridge audio 850c is a better dac/cd player.

I have Demo the marantz reference line cd player several years ago when I was buying my sonus faber olympica iii. Its a great player. Its at a different league that oppo is in.  Go demo yourself, you will know.

Speakingof just cd player, marantz sa 14 will blow away the oppo.  No doubt.

Oppo is entry level of  good cd player, not a reference line of cd player.

Hifiman, you are correct, of course I am referring to the Marantz 8005. Old age is hell.  A good player made great by Dans mods.  For the money it plays beautiful music.

....Money doesn't necessarily get you better sound and to that end, no matter who reviews what, trust your own ears above all.....

.....It takes a great palate to find a truly stunning bottle of wine at a sane price.....

+1

Although, money doesn't necessarily get you worse sound either.

Unfortunately, often is the case that money must at least be "fronted" in order to have an opportunity to trust your own ears.

I'm reading this thread with great interest.  I just ordered an Oppo UDP 205.  After 40 years of doing this as a hobby I've come to two conclusions.  Money doesn't necessarily get you better sound and to that end, no matter who reviews what, trust your own ears above all.

I got sick of seeing all these major audiophile brands spend fortunes on advertising knowing somewhere along the way I'm actually paying for all of that.  I had Don Sachs build me an amp and pre amp.  They're not cheap by any means.  The combo cost me more than $5,000 but for what I got I consider these pieces a steal.  I'm having a pair of single driver speakers built using Common Sense Audio's Super AlNico 15" drivers.  The cabinets are being designed by Chris Stanfill who's training is in engineering and has a severe disdain for "snake oil".  Cabling is Duelund tinned copper in an oil cloth casing.  I made my own IC's and am running 16 ga direct from the binding posts to the terminals on the back of a loaner pair of KEF LS50s.  No bi wiring or jumpers needed.  I replaced AQ cables that cost 20x the price and the Duelunds kick the crap out of them in my opinion.

I applied the same philosophy I do to fine wine.  Any idiot can write a check.  It takes a great palate to find a truly stunning bottle of wine at a sane price.  Same goes for my ears and what sounds good to me.

@rudge   I believe you are referring to the Marantz SA8005?  If so, I concur as I have the Modwright version of that player as well and the sound./build quality is outstanding!

I have been a Marantz person for years.  I have the sa11s1 and the 7s1.  Once the fuses were changed, they have been very musical and enjoyable players.  But its been years since I've changed my digital footprint.  And I' m too old for streaming, computer stuff, etc.  So I decided to buy a modified 805 from Dan Wright with all his bells and whistles.  I have dealt with Dan over many years and feel he does great work.  Well, the modified 805 has been more than I expected.    Its a step above,e even the 7s1.  I would recommend the mod to anyone who has an 805.  It takes the player to a whole other level.  Pick one up new or used and have Dan do his stuff.

Mahler123...
Thanks. I always thought the 105 played DSD, but I’m sure the 205 does at least.

Many options here, but it seems that most that have the oppo really love it. And it's amazing the level of animus, or love for that matter, that a few on here have for marantz. 

The Oppo 105 sounded great when I got it and I lived quite happily with it.  Then I got a chance to hear the Mytek Manhatten, which used the same ESS Sabre chips as the Oppo, and I was blown away.  Otoh, the Mytek costs several times what the Oppo went for so it damn well better be an upgrade.  I also wanted to be able to play DSD, which the Oppo couldn’t do...not sure that applies to the 205, though.
  So I scrimped and bought a demo Mytek and after a year I began wanting a DAC that could play my copious collection of SACDS.  I bought the Bryston and thought I would sell the Mytek.  But...can’t bear to part with the Mytek.  I will live on Franks and beans for a while.
  I use the Oppo for downloads as well, having the screen makes it easy to navigate usb sticks.
i would by the Oppo and not mess with the Marantz.  It sounds better and has better functionality 

@hifiman5 
I tube rolled a bit. I got the best tubes that Modwright offered and bought some NOS that Modwright recommeneded from Upscale Audio.
Something just didn't gel despite things seeming like they should line up, on paper.
I bit the bullet, changed almost everything, went solid state, and for the time being, I'm pretty damn happy with the sound I hear. Thanks.

@rnrmf1971 

Thanks so much for your response.  I too prefer a richer, more musical, especially a smoothness of texture music through my system.

Perhaps tube rolling may have helped a bit.  I found the included Jan/Phillips tubes in my modded player to have a hardness about them.  I prefer the NOS Tung-Sols I am currently using.  Also, as you observed, your cables at that time were on the brighter side and may, therefore, not have produced an enjoyable resulting sound.

The good news is that it seems like you have worked your way toward a more musically satisfying system now.

@rnrmf1971 

Thanks so much for your response.  I too prefer a richer, more musical, especially a smoothness of texture music through my system.

Perhaps tube rolling may have helped a bit.  I found the included Jan/Phillips tubes in my modded player to have a hardness about them.  I prefer the NOS Tung-Sols I am currently using.  Also, as you observed, your cables at that time were on the brighter side and may, therefore, not have produced an enjoyable resulting sound.

The good news is that it seems like you have worked your way toward a more musically satisfying system now.

No question, Marantz is a better CD player. As for the Oppo...
no matter what the audio rags say, it is what it is - a very, very good Blu-Ray player. 

Folks can convince themselves that the Oppo is the best, but it is not.

Whatever I wrote is just my and my many friends’ opinions based on our experience, so no excitement from the Oppo owners is necessary.

@hifiman5 

I know my experience stands out. Through conversations with Modwright, I determined the player was not for me. It was not even partially satisfying to listen to in my system. Again, I've never had an experience with a component like this, ever.

For the record, I prefer a warmer, dare I say, romantic, presentation.
I hate bright - which made me think I might like the Modwright player, based on the reviews I had read. I had considered the Oppo BDP-95 a bit lean, although, in retrospect, my cables added to that impression on all sources. I wanted a player that corrected the omissions of tone and musical density that I considered were built into the Oppo-BDP-95. The Modwright Oppo BDP-105D seemed to be a compelling option.

At the time, I believe my system was as follows: McIntosh C500T 2 box pre-amp, McIntosh MC501 mono block amps, Oppo BDP-95, either Shunyata Triton 2 or PS Audio P10 power conditioner (can't remember which), and mostly JPS Aluminata cabling (I came to regard these cables as mildly tilted up toward the upper frequencies). My speakers were Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grands.

I've since mostly changed almost everything in my system except the speakers, to come to a more balanced, tonally realistic, less bright or etched, presentation.

@rnrmf1971  First thing.  I have no basis to dispute what you heard with the Modwright modified Oppo BPD 105D in your system.  Anecdotal evidence however, evidence reported on this forum by many members, flies in the face of your unique experience.  

I have a Modwright modded Marantz SA8005.  The stock Marantz sounded very musically satisfying.  After talking with Dan Wright I decided to take the plunge and entrust my player to him as he sought to upgrade its performance with his proprietary tube analogue board and outboard tube rectified power supply.  The workmanship and attention to detail is astonishing.  In my system, the musicality is stunning!  I can't hear one parameter of sound that has not been improved and feel I am hearing results far in excess to the investment I made with Modwright.

The OP here could buy a stock machine, Marantz or Oppo, with the option to have its performance upgraded in the future as funds permit.

I don't know why the Modwright player sounded unsatisfactory in your system, but I presume your experience was system dependent.  I'm glad you were able to sell the modded machine and acquire a stock machine that, in your system, you found more satisfying.  

It would be helpful if you would be willing to describe your system here to give context to your experience.

Ps68.....you are absolutely right...but my definition of a reference player is probably a little different than yours. If a person has a very limited budget, and all they can afford is a 300 dollar player, then that is their reference. Mine, is in the 2k to 3k range. That's where I my budget is...my reference player. That's all I meant. I always thought that was the definition.

Plus, I was really interested in what people thought about oppo as a reference player.

Maybe I should have asked for people's opinions on the best players in the two to three thousand range. 

My apologies if I misunderstood you. 

onasandezekiel OP40 posts

'Quote'
Ps68....I’m so glad you have it like that, to turn your nose up at a 2500.00 player! This commoner can’t do any better, SO YES, it IS reference for me!
I was actually asking for advice, not elitist posturing.

More power to you though.

'Unquote'

You asked which is the reference disc player, simple answer is neither. If you had have asked which people would recomend for your budget no doubt you would have received different answers. It is not about elitism.

Good luck with your search though.