Record Cleaner Advice?

Hello all!

I’ve been reading this thread and want to say thanks for helping educate me on the current state of record cleaning machines and methods.  

I currently am using a Spin Clean and have been happy with it for general cleaning, but I’ve found that it struggles with that last 25% of getting the record truly clean…i.e. getting deep down into the grooves.  This is especially true with used/vintage albums.  I’m looking into getting a machine that does a more complete job, but not sure if I should go all-in and spend $1000 and more for an ultrasonic machine (Audio Desk Cleaner Pro X, Degritter and Kirmuss are what I’m looking at), or continue using the Spin Clean and augment it with a vacuum-type machine like a Pro-Ject, VPI, etc.?  A secondary plus for me would be if the machine could dry as well, although I know the Kirmuss machines don’t offer this.  The “automatic” cleaning cycles of the Audio Desk and Degritter are also really nice, but not a must-have as my record collection is still quite small; about 150 albums, but growing.

Would love to hear your thoughts on which direction makes the most sense…Thanks and Happy Listening!

Arvin

@antinn 

 

Yes, I am aware. I already had a gallon of DWV in the pantry and thought I would give it a run first. 

@fj40jason, 

There have been some updates - instead of DWV, now using Alconox Citranox (mixed 1.5%) - all details are in the 3rd Ed - Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press.

Take Care,

Wanted to say thanks to Neil for sharing his mixes.

I have been using AIVS #15 and the super cleaner. I think Neil's mix with DWV was able to remove some additional record noise the AIVS could not. Using a KAB RCM. Eyeing a 132kHz UCM to see if I can get even further noise out of some records.

 

Such an addiction for the perfect sound...😎

 

Cheers!

I recently bought about 50 records at a garage sale and most if not all were plagued with fingerprints. It varied from a few to practically covered in them. First of all as a record user and fan, there is no excuse for putting a finger anywhere on the surface of a record. Garage sale records being sold at a few cents each I can excuse but I have also bought records from sellers with fingerprints. That is inexcusable. Being faced with all these records to clean fingerprints from and as a fan of solutions without alcohol and being very low on my usual Disc Doctor fluid I tried some new lens cleaner I have called Bi-Oh! made by a Canadian company.

It works with an enzyme formula to remove oils and I was more than pleased with how it worked. I’d wipe the record with a micro fibre cloth and distilled water, spray the Bi-Oh! on it and spread it with a cleaning pad, then wipe with a cloth and distilled water. Then a dry cloth to dry it with. The ones worth it, I then ran through my ultrasonic but even without that, the results were great with just the manual cleaning. My small bottle of solution ran out so I found a supplier and ordered 2 - 450ml bottles. Info here: Bi-Oh!

@ antinn
Hi Neil 
            Thank You for continued Support.
My 40ish Years Old 'Wish You Were Here' Album has been a excellent cleaning success.
When Listened to at Xmas it was a real concern.
Now I am willing to take it to other systems to use iot for a replay.

The (WDV) requiring less time that I have allocated to the soak is a nice turnout, for the future operations.

I did not inform on the use of the 1.5 Litre (3 Pint) Pressurised Bottle in use.
With a Nozzle set to produce a Funnel of Mist, it is a very nice rinse method and conservative with the amount of water used to flush the surface.
If more impact of the Water as a flush method is preferred                          and Water conservation is not too much of a concern,                            the Nozzle set to a Jet is the tool for this.  
  
0                    

@pindac,

For routine cleaning, you do not need to soak the record with White Distilled Vinegar for 15-30 minutes.  That time comes from the book "VIII.12. DESCALING: Occasionally when resurrecting a Goodwill™ or flea market record find, there may be evidence of scale – such as hard water mineral spots...".

For routine cleaning - I only do 2-4 minutes.  The following info is not yet in the book:

After a chance review of this thread https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php ... t-14577762 and while I question the validity of the source of the carbonates, it occurred to me that what I am seeing as ref PACVR 2nd Ed Chapter/para IV.6 & Figure 10 is very tightly adherent non-organic/mineral based particles. These type particles are natural to the environment; known as aerosols https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/globa ... 2_M_AER_RA. So its entirely feasible that these particle 'may' be in the ambient of record pressing factories (except QRP - http://www.qualityrecordpressings.com/i ... =standards which appear pressed in a very clean environment); and can be essentially be pressed into the record. These type particles are not going to be easily removed.

Carbonates fluoresce intensely white and noting that I do inspect records with a 10 watt UV light, and it now occurred to me that the intense white specs that I am seeing on 'some' records may be inorganic salts/minerals. And, this debris that fluoresce intensely is not removed by multiple detergent washes and multiple rinses (with brush & flowing water). However, a weak acid can dissolve mineral type particles, especially very small (<5 microns) particles that can dissolve quickly. So after pre-clean with Alconox Liquinox I now do a pre-clean with White Distilled Vinegar (WDV) 5% acidity of which I add 4-5 drops Tergitol 15-S-9 to 1-pint WDV so that the WDV wets the record. I spray-on and gently agitate with Record Dr. nylon brush for 2-4 minutes. The results are good to excellent. WDV is unique - its a weak acid, its acetic acid that is fermented from ethanol and is also known as ethanolic acid and its very pure with almost no non-volatile residue (NVR); rinses easily and is cheap and readily available. After WDV pre-clean, I final clean and rinse.

Otherwise, good to hear you are getting good results.  

Stay well,
Neil

The Distilled Vinegar (5% Acid) with a few drops of Dehyphon has now been used as an additional stage for the Manual Cleaning Method as shown in the Aqueous Cleaning Guidance.

The Record Drying Rack now has a Secondry Purpose as it is used to store the Vinyl LP undergoing the 30 Minutes of soak in the Distilled Vinegar.
Due to the suggested Soak Time of 15 - 30 Minutes, I found oit best to prepare Eight LP's to receive the Vinegar Soak.
When the Last LP is placed in the Rack, the first LP is good to go for the next stages of the Manual Cleaning.

The Two Long Term Owned LP's previously referred to has been treated with a Vinegar Soak and follow up cleaning stages.

I will prefer to suggest the Vinegar Soak has been responsible for the improvement to the Surface Noise being heard between tracks, other than the fact the LP's went through two full cleaning operations obver a short timescale.
I say the vinegar is an important stage as a few other long term owned LP's from a similar era, have offered a similar perception of cleaness when replayed following one full cleaning operation.
With a little alteration to the Time required to complete the Cleaning Operations, I will say it is a worthy additional stage to put into the Manual Cleaning Method.

This only leaves me to trial a final rinse in a US Bath to see if there is any further changes to be heard in the Surface Noise.

I used the Spindle Bar and Label Protectors supplied with my US Bath Rotation Motor to handle the LP's this time.
It was an improvement in terms of feeling the mechanical fastening is more trustworthy than a Suction Attachment, as used in the previous handling and cleaning operation.

I am still awaiting parts to be delivered for my other LP Handling Device.
I will report on how this functions when all is up and running.              

Finally listed the busted-MDF HW-17F machine I received last month.  It was barely used and poorly packed by the inheriting granddaughter.  Working perfectly.  It's sad this is my first Audiogon listing, but an inexpensive alternative for garage or basement (or parts). 

My new record-cleaning spot is my kitchen, and I don't want this one on display, even if patched up.

@antinn vinegar step will be done in nearby sink..thanks for reminder about weak acid..

more results later...

@tomic601 

Do not use vinegar with the Nitty Gritty or any vacuum-RCM; the vinegar - acetic acid can corrode the metal vacuum blower/motor.  Although vinegar at 5% acidity is a weak acid it can corrode steel or plated steel.

Been using the Keith Monks new Prodigy for months now I think part of why it cleans so well is the Monks own fluid. Don't know if it actually helps dissolve grime but it does a better job than several other fluids I've used. Yes the machine has some minor quicks that the dealer was honest about explaining but for it's asking price and ease of use I'm a happy camper.

The Walker system arrived today and I will trial it against my existing system of Nitty Gritty / Brooks Berdan two step process. I have modified both of my Nitty Gritty machines to accept a disposable aerospace grade lint free wiper. I will weave the Vinegar step in also and report findings. Off to buy three sequential MoFi pressings to level the playing field on the listen testing side of the equation.

what a great thread, thanks to the real contributions of many

All, as I mentioned a month ago, the VPI HW-17 I bought online arrived with a damaged MDF frame.  It's working perfectly.  It's a shame, really.  It had been pristine before the seller (a grand daughter who inherited it) did a poor packing job.

I'm ready to sell it here on AG (once I can figure out the clumsy listing system).

If I were going to use it in a garage or basement, I wouldn't be bothered by the busted frame.  But I want to set it up in my kitchen, so I've already purchased another HW-17  that was delivered 2 days ago (MillerCarbon's subtle advice notwithstanding).

Any further advice?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Kingfisher-Pressure-Bottle-Control-Plastic/dp/B07BFC6TDM/ref=sr_1_10?crid=6...

A update report.
My cleaning operation using the Aqueous Cleaning Manual Method,
has had the use of a Naglene Bottle as suggested to carry out a Rinse Clean Stage.
The Area I reside in has a supply of Hard Water to my property and this was a Water I did not want to use to Rinse Clean my Vinyl LP's.
The Idea of having a Pressurised Water Flushing Stage in the Cleaning Process was a attractor, so I looked into a simple alternative method to achieve a very similar application.
The 'Link' is to a Tool I have chose to add to my already acquired Cleaning Equipment.  

It has a adjustable nozzle that allows for a choice of the dispersal ranging from a Mist Wash > Jet Wash.
The Trigger has a Lock so that the Bottle can be a Standalone Tool and leave hands free to assist with other tasks as the Water is applied to the LP Surface.

When Pumped to a Point that the Plunger is resistant through bottle pressure, the Bottle will release a adequate Powered Jet Pressure to give a satisfying Rinse Clean for a Minute +.
If Maximum Pressure is wanted only for a Rinse Clean Stage, then a couple of Plunger Pumps every 20-30 Seconds will maintain this.

It is a very good addition to the collection of cleaning equipment,
it has the delivery of water that will offer a 'controlled'  forceful flush of Cleaning Solutions.

 The Bottle has been cleaned as per the advice for cleaning any bottle containing cleaning solutions.
It is now containing DIW and is good to go. 

    

@antinn 
               Thank you for the continued support.
I have seen this Device and considered it.
With the Additional Support Device I am to produce for the record,
this type of Label Protector will make producing the LP retainer a little harder to design for.
Materials I have at hand will need to be exchanged.

As some of my HiFi Friends are Long Term Vinyl Enthusiasts, I hope to be able to clean some of their Valued LP's as the Meetings reconvene

Hence the need for myself to have a Handling Device that is reassuringly secure.
I am also Hoping that a Design will evolve to allow me to carry out a Spin
Dry.
That will be on the drawing board when the Support Device is functioning.   

@pindac,

Not sure you are aware, but you should be able to buy a record label protector -  Amazon.co.uk: record label protector.  These are the same as the Groovemaster record label protector.

As a Update on the evolvement of my Vinyl Handling Practices for the increased assurances of Handling Vinyl during the Aqueous Cleaning Manual Cleaning Guidance.
I will offer a report on my first impressions about a couple of implements I have bought in,  to produce a, 'what is believed to be' improvement on handling the Vinyl.

Firstly, I tried the Lever Operated and Clear Rubber Plunger Push Down Operated Suction Pads on a Ceramic Side Plate that was seemingly having a increased weight over the LP on standby.
As a guestimate 25% heavier than a LP.

Either Implement remained adhered to the Plate for periods of time that extend to more than a Hour and on revisits during this time allowance the Side Dish was picked up using the attached implement, as well as undergoing a few hand rotations.
There were no concerns for the integrity of the attachment.

I then set out to try these on the Vinyl LP .
My initial Set up was quite simple the Centre of the Clear Suction Pad has a obvious colouration difference to the Flexible Flanges.
I placed the Suction Pad on a Table with the Suction Cup Facing Upwards aligned the LPs Spindle hole with the centre of the Suction Pad using the Colour difference to gain a near accurate positioning and then Placed the LP onto the Suction Cup when aligned at this position.
The Lever Suction Cup was then aligned to be near centred and the Suction Cup was set in place.
'Voila' we now have a LP that can be picked up and manoeuvred with Pressure Applied to its surfaces with out too much concern. 
The initial Observations showed that the Lever Suction Pad could draw the Vinyl toward it creating a slight dishing of approx'
 (3 Inch ) Diameter to a Depth of 1.5mm (1/16 Inch).

Disclaimer:
The LP still appears Vulnerable and at the Mercy of the Air Seals, using this as a Handling Method.
Trial and Error Experimentation unwanted LP would give a good idea of the Parameters of usage.
The Lever Operated Suction Cup is a Method I had seen on Youtube, 
but two were used, one on either side of the LP to create the Air Tight Seal. 
The Clear Suction Cup was chosen by myself as it will be utilised on a soon to be built support to further assist with the LP Handling. 

The Two Suction Pads I am using will hold a secure fasten for approximately 10 Minutes, a Dishing can still be seen in the LP.
After about 15 Minutes the Suction Pads have lost their adhesion.

For me this is fine as a outcome,  as my additional Stand being produced will alleviate and concerns about the time a suction is to be maintained.
The Suction Cup with the Handle will be the immediate available one to assist with rotations of the LP, when it is mounted on the Stand.
Resetting the Suction Pump will be a veryu easy operation as well.
My Cleaning Processes per side will not last longer a few minutes at a time, so again the concerns of the useful loss of adhesion after 10 minutes is not causing any concerns.

The Two Lever Hand Suction Pad used as a Pair may exceed the Suction Times I have recorded for my method used.
If this method is picked up on on Youtube, in the manner I discovered the method , then I recommend trial exercises for the handling using a  unwanted Vinyl LP, similar to how I have carried them out.   
        


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Round-Button-Suction-Rubbersuckers-UK/dp/B008B7X71S/ref=sr_1_4?dchild=1&...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Blue-Spot-30001-Tile-Suction/dp/B01M18SRIF/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords...

@pindac,

Recognizing your issue with local very hard tap-water, your process looks great - try the distilled white vinegar before the Dehyphon final clean and that should improve your results.  

I was misunderstanding your term "Ultrasound Solution"; I now realize you are discussing use of an ultrasonic tank (UT) for the final rinse.  In this case, since you are doing a pre-clean and final clean, but with only a spray for rinse (I understand your tap-water issue) use of a ultrasonic tank for final rinse  may improve the process.

If you proceed down this path, for final rinse using UT, 1st try using only DIW and see how that works.  If you are not satisfied then add 2.5% IPA and see if that improves the results.  As the final option add 0.005% Dephyon to the UT 2.5% IPA solution.  UT results will be very dependent of the orientation of the transducers (side firing vs bottom firing); kHz frequency, tank capacity (Liters) and ultrasonic power.  Lower kHz UT (~40kHz) need a lot of power to get good cleaning with just DIW.  

Good Luck,
Neil

Hi @antinn 
                    Thank you for the continued support and tutoring.
The Conversion to (mg) makes my life much simpler as I have invested in a Scale to support with producing the producing the recommended Solutions.

I will need to revisit your Aqueous Download to take confirm my recollections on the use of a Ultrasound with a Rinse Solution.
From recollection the Solution used in a Ultrasound would have to be more the Dehyphon with a increased dilution, producing a different to the Manual Cleaning  Applied Solution.

I live in a Hard Water Area, this produces collections of Lime Scale Deposits on Various surfaces over time.
My Cleaning is carried out with Rinses of DIW.
1, Amazon Solution applied from a Mist Nozzle Bottle,
Goat Hair Brush/ Fine Bristle Cradle Cap Brush. 
1a, Rinse Bruhes
2, DIW applied from a Mist Nozzle Bottle,
Goat Hair Brush
2a, Rinse Brush
3, Dehyphon Solution applied from a Mist Nozzle,
Bottle Goat Hair Brush/ Fine Bristle Cradle Cap Brush.
3a, Rinse Brushes
4  DIW applied from a Mist Nozzle Bottle,
Goat Hair Brush/  Fine Bristle Cradle Cap Brush.
4a, Rinse Brushes.
5, Flush the LP with a Squeeze Bottle applied DIW.

I am considering using a Gardeners Portable Pressured Pump Bottle to produce a powerful flow to mimic a Running Tap.
With a little bit of extra preparation it should be easy to get this bottles water Temperature up to 30ish Degrees Celsius to represent a Luke Warm Water.  
This method can be utilised as a Step 2b, 3b, 5.

I have found Multipack Fine Bristle Cradle Cap Brushes.
I intend on having a Brush set aside for each solution.

I have owned the Goat Hair Brush as a unused Wet Cleaning Brush for many years.
It has been given a chance to assist with cleaning, is it a necessary stage ??
It only adds a Minute to a Process so it is not too inconvenient.

My Implements are starting to arrive for my thoughts on how to improve the Vinyl Handling.
I am keen to try out the methods thought out during the initial cleaning experience undertaken, these have evolved a little in the past days and items were selected for the purpose.
I will update on the reassurances I feel are on offer through utilising the implements.       

I’ve just ordered my first record cleaning machine: Record Doctor IV along with Audio Intelligent cleaning fluid. We’ll see how it goes!

@pindac,

For the 5% Acidity White Distilled Vinegar  - this you buy at your local grocery store.  Its generally provided in 1-pint (~500 mL); 1-quart (~1L) and larger containers. The pint containers I buy have screw top threads that are used by many sprayers.

The Dehyphon will work just fine (its the EU/UK alternative to 15-S-9) - just add 2-3 drops/500 mL.  In this case, exact measurement is not critical, so to keep simple just add 2-3 drops/pint.  If you want to go the extra step of measuring it out - assume 20-drops/mL; so I am using ~0.1 to 0.15 mL/475 mL and 1-mL = 1000 mg; so 0.1 mL = 100 mg; and 0.15 mL = 150 mg (per pint = 475 mL).  

Amazon Recommended Concentrate Cleaner >DIW as the
Pre Clean Solution and Dehyphon >DIW as the Final Rinse Solution.

I am going to assume that this is your actual current cleaning process:

Pre-clean:   Amazon Recommended Concentrate Cleaner /DIW
Rinse:  Flowing Tap-water 
Final-clean:  Dehyphon/DIW
First Final Rinse:  Flowing Tap-water
Final Rinse:  DIW

Otherwise - what is  "Ultrasound Solution"; can you provide a link?

 

Thank You for this added incite to use the White Distilled Vinegar and the descriptions for the levels of noise being picked up on a 40ish year old LP.
I have the Amazon Recommended Concentrate Cleaner >DIW as the
Pre Clean Solution and Dehyphon >DIW as the Final Rinse Solution.

Will Dehyphon work with the Distilled White Vinegar ?
Is the mix approx 0.025 mg per 300ml or will more be required if Dehyphon is compatible. 

I am keen to put this added stage to use, before considering the
USB Rinse.

@pindac,

First good news that your getting good results (as expected).

Referencing -  Vinyl Record Manual Cleaning Process (thevinylpress.com), the pre-clean step (if using Alconox Liquinox) is where you can get some foam as noted Figure 15; and most of the foam should be in brush  The final clean step that uses only a non-ionic surfactant will not foam excessively as noted Figure 17.

I do not know what Ultrasound Solution is so unable to access what it may do or what harm it may do.  The noise between tracks is essentially the silent groove(s).  The background noise of the silent groove 'can' be inherent to the record material surface roughness - and this surface roughness can be specific to the specific pressing plant; or it  may be tightly adherent small particles

If you want you can try this very simple step as an additional pre-clean step to be performed after the first pre-clean with Alconox (or whatever detergent you are using).  Pre-clean with White Distilled Vinegar 5% acidity (use no other).  To 500 mL add 2-3 drops Tergitol 15-S-9.  The 15-S-9 makes the vinegar a wetting solution.  Gently spray each side of the record and then gently spread with the brush making sure the record is fully wetted; and then gently agitate for 2-4 minutes.  After which rinse with flowing tap water to remove and then follow with final clean and rinse as specified in Chapter V.

White distilled vinegar is a weak acid (acetic) but its also very pure - it comes from ethanol and is also known as ethanolic acid so it has almost no NVR.  The weak acid is used to dissolve small inorganic mineral salt particles that are attached tightly to the record that detergents may not remove (I discuss this Chapter IV Figure 10).   I now use white distilled vinegar (+ drops of 15-S-9) as the 2nd pre-clean step and have had good to  excellent results with over 50 records.  More details will be provide when the book 3rd edition is issued late this year or next.  

Good Luck

Neil

@antinn 
I would like to share a Update on my Vinyl Cleaning and the immediate impression made from the Vinyl Replays, following my first session cleaning with the Manual Cleaning Method using the Solutions as advised on here by @ antinn.

Firstly,  I was not producing much foam during any stages of the cleaning processes.
Is this a good sign ?.

The PVA Sponge and Microfibre Cloth are excellent for removing the excess moisture and from the Vinyl LP Surface.

My Drying Rack using a Bamboo Bread Slicing Guide, become very usable when I put a Elastic Band on each of the Slotted Side Panels, with the Elastic Band stretched over the Length of the Side Panel positioned about 1/3 up from the Base.
This secured the LP in a reassuring manner. 

My First excursion into the Practice, has supplied me with a few ways to attempt to improve on the LP Handling.
I have ordered in a few extra implements to further the reassurances of handling the Vinyl Lp's.
I will inform on the outcome following the Trial use of the method.   

I deliberately chose to Clean a few Albums owned since my Teens and have had a Tragic Early Life ( when vaguely remembered back on ).
These are owned LP's for approx' 40 Years.

They have been cleaned in the Past on one or two occasions, but the last would have been before 2005.
The method would have been a laid flat LP and dowsed in a Isopropyl>Distilled Water>Detergent Solution Probably at a ratio: 10/85/5,
The amount of detergent is a wild guestimation. 
The Method will have probably been a Paint Brush > Felt Pad > and Course Weave Micro Fibre Cloth.  

I believe this New Method and Solutions used was probably very successful at releasing the caked residuals from my archaic cleaning methods, and quite cabable of releasing any other contamination that was contained in the groove.

The outcome of the Replays,
The Albums between Tracks, had a  Audible Tic and Pop at various loudness across a Side of a Album, to the point where a few Tracks were almost silent.
This alone has been perceived as a vast improvement since the last listening from the Xmas Holiday Period.

Much more noticeable was how inviting the Music Replay was being perceived than when last replayed.
I know during my last time I listened to the Two Albums, my thoughts were leading to the place where they were reaching the end of their usage, as I was becoming concerned for the Stylus being exposed to the Albums condition.

The situation has changed and is a pleasing outcome for the continued use of a Album that has been a part of my life for many years.
There are noises to be heard from the Vinyl when replayed, but the Albums sound very clean and the concerns for the Stylus were not in my mind during the replays.

I will try a Rinse with a Ultrasound Solution to see if a further improvement can be achieved to the audible noise between tracks.     
  

Are you kidding? These things are nothing more than a couple pieces of MDF wrapped in vinyl and glued together. Twist it back, slap some silicone on it, clamp it, call it good. If its not pretty with cracks or whatever, buy a little vinyl, cover it up. Or if you want it really nice cut four pieces of cocobolo or whatever pretty hardwood you like, glue them together instead. Cabinet maker. Sheesh! DIY! 

I'm seeking advice from anyone who wants to weigh in on the value of a working but cosmetically busted VPI HW-17 record cleaning.

As I previously posted, I bought one used.  It was delivered, but the packaging was inadequate.  The frame has two broken areas and is slightly racked (the twisting creates a 1" gap between the lid and the front left side).  It's a shame, because this unit was mint and barely used.

It still works fine, but I'm planning to sell it for parts/repair.  Maybe someone has a dead unit and needs a working version.  The lid seems fine, as are the switches and any other parts other than the MDF frame.  If anyone would like pics, please contact me.

Any opinions on its value?

VPI has no parts left (a reproduction left side panel would help) and actually recommended a cabinet maker to fix the frame.

Now I have the mixtures that are in keeping with the recommendations,
I will commence with Vinyl Cleaning.
I will start with Vinyl I have owned since the 1980's that has been through Teenage Treatment.
I will offer a few comments on the end product replay that has been experienced.
   
I will be producing a 0.25mg per 5000mL (5 Litre) Distilled Water 
for my UCM when extending the Cleaning to a Final Clean Stage. 

@pindac,

I assume you are preparing 90 mg/300 mL = 0.03%.  There is an inconsistency in the document (that I will fix in the next ed.), while Para IX.6.a states "...for manual cleaning 0.01-0.02% would be recommended.", Para III.EU/UK.a) states:  "...to obtain about a 0.04% solution.".  So, your 0.03% is right in the middle and is fine.  In the next edition Para IX.6.a will state "...for manual cleaning 0.02-0.04% would be recommended."

Thank You for this reply

I am quite impressed with the Manual Cleaning Method, and will pursue this first.
I do intend on introducing the UCM I own, which is now most likely to be a Final Rinse.

I did miss the information for the 1% Solution - 10ml LS54 per Litre of Distilled Water.
A easier ratio to work with.

I am 90mg of LS54 against the ideal 75mg

@pindac,

We do not need absolute accuracy so we assume specific gravity of water of 1.0, so 300 mL = 300 g, and 0.025% LS54 = 75 mg. So your math to achieve 0.025%

I not sure how you plan on using the LS54.  The high concentration you prepared 0.025% would be associated with manual cleaning or with a UCM as a pre-clean (para XIV.9.4). But if you are going to use this as final-clean UCM w/o rinse, then the 2nd Ed of my document para XIV.10 shows an LS54 concentration of  BASF™ DEHYPON® LS 54 at 0.0025 to 0.005%.

Otherwise, at the concentration you mixed (+250 ppm), you will get some foam (when agitated) which for manual cleaning is fine and good . As far as working with very small measurements, you can absolutely use weight, or as I address para XIV.7.e you can prepare a 1% solution of LS54 (10 mL/L) and then proportion from that.

I am almost good to go with my changes being made to Vinyl Cleaning.

Before I go off on this activity.
Can my Math for the Mixtures for the Solutions be assessed for the accuracy.

My 'Cleaned Out' Application Bottles are holding 300ml of Distilled Water. (DiW) when filled to about 85% full.

The Dehyphon LS54 has been worked out using Grams as the 'ml' option seemed impossible to achieve.

The Calculation I used gave Water @    300ml x 0.99802 = 299.40g
299.40g @ 0.025% = 0.075g.
I managed to show a reading of 0.09g of Dehyphon in a Pipette when the Tare for used weighing scale with the Pipette was set to 0.00g.

Does this Calculation I produced seem accurate ? , as there is a small quantity of foam already seen with the mixture produced. 

The Concentrate Cleaner from Amazon Proved a lesser challenge as 13ml, seemed almost on the correct mix for 300ml of (DiW) 

Hi! When I was looking for a vinyl cleaner, this article helped me a lot https://downhomedigital.net/vinyl/best-record-cleaner/ . 
I crawl Record Doctor VI can safely recommend it, it copes with its task by 10/10

I have the degritter.  It’s awesome but I’m thinking I need an rcm for pre or post.

Thank You the Updated 2nd Edition.
I will have to try and understand the equations for the Clean Times for immersion in the Tank.

As a simple solution for a Storage Rack, I have purchased a
Collapsible Bamboo Bread Slicing Guide.
From the images it looks good for the Job.
 

@pindac,
 
If you down loaded the new 2nd Edition of the document Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records, read paragraph XIV.10 and you  have 4 options, try one or try all and listen for which works best for you.

A Thank You is sent out for all the valuable information offered.

As a result, I have now ordered and started receiving the Items to follow up on the advisories within this thread to start with my Latest Method to Clean my Vinyl Collection.
The Old Method and previous used Solutions are now off the radar. 

I have had a 6L US Tank and a 0.5 RPM Motor awaiting to be put into service for quite a while.
With the New Methods for Cleaning being adopted, I am now intending on using this Tank as the device for the final Cleaning Process, following the Manual Cleaning Recommend Methods.

Will it be a best practice to use the Tank with Distilled Water Only and carry out a Final Rinse,  or will the Dehyphon LS54 be required to be added to produce a rinse solution ? 

@antinn -- you didn't tell everybody about the 2nd Edition? That expands on the chemistry, covers stuff that isn't available in the UK/EU and does a deep dive into ultrasonic chemistry and processes? You know, this one: [url]https://thevinylpress.com/precision-aqueous-cleaning-of-vinyl-records-2nd-edition/

@keegiam,

Once you have established cleanliness its all about maintenance of cleanliness; and in my opinion the only thing that belongs in the groove is the stylus.  

@jkmcc

How will you maintain the cleaned records?  I can understand the temptation to send some of my most cherished LP's for this treatment, but they still have to be cleaned as they're used at home.

Thanks for calling our attention to this service.

Perfect Vinyl Forever
https://www.perfectvinylforever.com

I ran across this outfit recently and sent them 16 LPs to be cleaned using their “archival” process. I received the cleaned LPs this past weekend and I have found the results to be compelling.

Neil- I didn’t think it was actually pigment but it is very fine and stains. See the thread you are in on Hoffman re the Degritter, Neil, where Phil describes it that way. What’s interesting is this-- it only happens with new records that have not be precleaned. If I preclean a record it doesn’t seem to appear in the US reservoir. It must dissolve too, because if I preclean it’s on the Monks which has a clear glass jar (almost like a British mason jar with a metal lid and a couple of barb type fittings for hoses). The waste water will be cloudy after any kind of clean but not dark or show evidence of the stuff as grit (I like examining the entrails of what comes off the record- very Druid).
Tim- it’s too bad the KL is no longer but mine is still (knock wood) running ok and I like the machine. I’ve been kicking around ideas about an industrial approach to this with Neil for the next machine but we haven’t gotten into detail yet.

Good for KL owners to know, Bill; thanks.

That said, it does not allow you to access the actual bath where the water and record meet.

And that's where the gunk accumulates.I wonder if multiple ultrasonic cycles, each with clean water and no records, could remove some dirt from the interior machinery.

Neil has a second edition in the works.

Homework!  :-)

Bill,

The likelihood of the debris being pigment is pretty remote.  The pigment forms with the PVCa/PVC a polymer so its not going to wear individually.  However, consider this, the stylus develops pressures on the order  of >10,000 psi and very localized (short term) temps approaching 500F.  If there is any residue from past sins (i.e., brushes with record cleaners) and that residue is a hydrocarbon such as a surfactant. At those pressures & temperatures you will get partial thermal decomposition and essentially soot. 

Just some thoughts.

Tim, you can access the reservoir tank on the KL through a screw off port on the back. It has sharp edges (as one learns the first time) and isn't easy to align the threads to get back on properly seated. That said, it does not allow you to access the actual bath where the water and record meet. 
I use clean room wipes to wipe down the inner walls of the reservoir, using rubber tipped oversized tweezers to hold the wipes. What it shows is nothing if the records have been pre-cleaned on the Monks; if a new records goes directly into the KL, there will be a very fine black grit, almost like pigment (a term someone else used to describe this on another forum). Neil has a second edition in the works. It's gonna be good! 

Distilled water is certainly cheap enough in the States to enable you to change out the water constantly, but you’d probably have to clean the inner walls of that container (and Lord knows what the innards involve in terms of removing any surfactant traces from the inside of the machine itself).

Bill Hart's note raises a legitimate issue that is rarely discussed: cleaning tank cleanliness.  None of the push button desktop machines (AudioDesk, Degritter, KLAudio, etc.) have accessible interiors other than through the record slot at the top.  Even after a short period of use, say a couple months, sticking a clean cloth or even some paper towels into the interior of a closed desktop machine reveals accumulated gunk, a composite of dirt from records and cleaning fluid residue built up over time. Small filters mitigate this somewhat but the accumulation still occurs.  Many of the interior parts are not accessible.  Switching out wash water for clean water, particularly distilled water, can, at least in theory absorb minerals from a dirty interior along with whatever residue disolves into it.  Without some method to clean them the interior of closed desktop machines only get dirtier.

DIY ultrasonic machines typically have stainless steel interiors that are open.  Better ss tanks have rounded bottom corners.  These are easy to clean compared to the mostly closed compartments of the desktop units.

With regard to horizontal machines (Monks, VPI, Loricraft, etc) these are vacuums, they rotate the record and suck off clearnng fluid but they do no cleaning themselves. Cleaning comes from cleaning fluids. I used AIVS fluids with my Loricraft PRC-3. Experiments suggest that scrubbing with a brush can do more harm than good. My approach is to lightly agitate the cleaning fluid with a brush to keep released residue suspended in the cleaning fluid.  It takes time for cleaning fluid to do its work, anywhere from 3 to 20 minutes and the record should remain covered in fluid until it is vacuumed off and the record rinsed.

any idea when this humming guru is available? 

Re: bread rack.

After looking into different materials that are available, I decided to cover every upright on the bread rack with 1/2" ID thin-wall PVC tubing.  The tubing is pulled down over the entire length of each upright (it is a rather snug fit, which is perfect).  Snip the tubing at the top of the post and move on to the next one.  There will be nothing for the record surfaces to touch except for soft PVC.

I doubt I'll ever have 17 LPs in it at once, but it seems better than being limited to 6.

They're molded plastic, and I plan to cover the upper ends with those soft usb covers.   All will be fine.

With that bread slicing rack....seems like too many chances to scrap a record against those long dividers? Thanks, I'll pass and stick with my tried and true regular dish rack using clean dish towels as a buffer.