I'm not familiar with your Counterpoints but it sounds like you are bridgeing a 2 channel amp for each side. I tried this my 3.6's and did not like the sound. Nor did the amps like the heat generated. I believe an amp in bridged mode sees half the impedance. This combined with a 2.8 ohm min. is bad news. |
As a Thiel owner, I absolutely agree with Pops: your first move should be to try copper cables and to take the Chang unit out of your system. |
I am not familiar with counterpoint electronics but I have Thiel 3.6's with all conrad johnson electronics and they sound wonderful. I listen primarily to classical and female jazz vocals.
Chuck |
Well I can only tell you what works for me so you'll have to take it with a grain of salt. I am an MIT guy, have used many models, currently using 350 reference between dac and preamp, and 350 shotgun evo between pre and amp, using magnum 2 speaker wire.
The only other brand I have extensive experience with in my system is Kimber, PBJ, KCAG, select 1011 and 1021, 8TC, and monocle xl. The MIT's offer, according to my ears, tonal accuracy and a presence and immediacy I have rarely heard even in showrooms with various brands. The also image very good. That said, one of the strong suits of Kimber is the imaging which is phenomenal but the immediacy and presence is not there.
I have Thiel 3.6's and they offer the soundstage you like when properly setup, they need space between them and all walls. I'm not familiar with counterpoint really, I use CJ premier 14 pre and Mcintosh 501's which offer a full lush midrange, huge bass, and very smooth top end. I also use an older meridian digital setup, so all of the components upstream are a little on the "laid back" side. Hope this helps. |
Messing with the tweeters in kinda like messing with an older Chrysler Hemi engine...DON'T DO IT!!! Even if you do tune the system to your ears, you'll destroy the resale value of your speakers. Work with other components and assorted tweaks further down the audio chain.
For classical music, I would recommend vinyl, SACD, or DVD-A for a source. CD's just won't cut it on violins and violas...redbook CD's will give you a slightly etched, grainy, or scratchy presentation on these instruments. Very subtle on the best CD players, but still there |
I have been trying to accommodate Thiel 3.6's needs for the past five years. Now I have 27 tubes in my system (6 in source, 17 in line stage and 4 in ampplifiers) and still can not achive what I wanted.
Pop, you are right regarding the interconnects. They are silver which bring me the sound stage I love, open and wide. What copper cable would you recommend without sacrificing the sound stage?
Thanks! |
Of course the easiest way to resolve this issue might be with some equalization. |
Amp choices can be very personal. Thiel doesn't go as far as to make actual recommendations, how ever they suggest that they have especially enjoyed results with: Ayre, Boulder, Classe', Conrad-Johnson, Krell, Levinson, Pass, Theta, and VTL. Their web site also offers less expensive alternatives. IMHO, Thiel's demand quality amplification. The 3.6's will require an amp to provide plenty of power into low impedances. Be especially carefull when opting for tubes as the difficult impedance load of the 3.6's will require very powerfull tube amplification. Of course power requirements will ultimately depend on your room and desired volume. The Thiels' also have wide dispersion. Perhaps room treatment might help. Try to avoid too much or for that matter any toe in. Good luck. |
I don't think you can do better than what Jim Thiel has come up with. |
Just to state the obvious: have you asked Thiel? One reason why the tweet may sound hot is the soft xover -- if you're a diyer try a 8-10ohm resistor on it. If NOT a diyer DON'T do anything. Just place the 3,6 w/out toe-in, then slowly introduce toe-in ~80 degrees b/ween the two spkrs or to wherever it starts to become too hot for you.
BTW, the 3,6 are not the easiest of "affordable" spkrs to drive... |
I can only say since you seem to like cones you might want to try Thiels more expensive model's, or maybe move to a planer speaker. Would all depend on your listening room and type of music you enjoy. I have found the best way to enjoy your system don't fix it unless it's broke.I have been using the same speaker for around 5yrs and still enjoy them very much. I found just moving them and room placement with an eye on room acoustic treatment as helped greatly. |
Every component and cable is a little on the sharp side for a neutral/unforgiving speaker like thiel. First thing I would try - go to copper cables, I'm assuming yours are silver. Next, I would plug the amps directly into the wall and out of the chang pc. You will tame the tweeter some and get some body in the presentation.
This seems to me the most inexpensive way to possibly improve the sound and decide if you want to stick with Thiel. You almost need to build a system around Thiels - they will either punish you are greatly reward you.
I've always had a tube preamp in the chain and recommend that with Thiels. Next is a SS amp with alot of clean power like Mcintosh, Classe, or CJ...those are the only amps I have alot of experience with but they all work exceptionally well with thiel.
My final suggestion...don't give up on your Thiels. |
Thank you for all your suggestions. I had tried Threshold SA-4e but the tweeter were just too clear for me. Then I tried Silverline Sonata I which did not have enough bass for my taste.
Unsound, what amplifiers would you recommend?
Schipo, what speakers would you recommend?
Thansk again! |
Same goes with me, I agree with them completely. If you like you could try some felt if you like around the tweeters and if you don't like the change just remove. But to try another tweeter in place of the Thiels? Better to just purchase another speaker if your not happy with the top end. |
I agree with Pops and Unsound don't mess with a great thing.
Chuck |
Wow...that's ambitious, Unsound makes a very valid point... |
Why mess with it, you may get worse sound and if not careful hurt resale value. |
I hope you realize that Thiel's designs are time and phase coherent systems. Thiel goes to great effort to design cross-overs that compensate for any driver irregularities. My suggestion would be to leave well enough alone and consider other options. Perhaps different amplification. |
