Rank the top reference DACs you've heard
@thieliste Great, thanks. Did you manage to hear any of the rest of the totaldac range? If so, how does it compare to the flagship? |
I haven’t heard the entire totaldac range, but I can confirm that the entry-level model (the "core" model) is excellent...you may not need to go "higher" (the more expensive models should give more resolution, but the same flavor of sound). Enough (non-fatiguing) resolution for my taste and a certain analogue flavor -- not that it sounds like vinyl, but in the sense of musical engagement and connection. I can listen will full attention for an entire afternoon...which I could never do before. Adding a Roon-ready streamer board, it’s $6500 -- so it’s in the same price range (perhaps even cheaper, since it can include a streamer) as the higher level Chinese DACs (Denafrips, Holo) that have recently received much attention. |
I have had the following DAC's in my system for evaluation. 1. DCS Bartok 2. Chord Dave (with and without M Scaler) 3. PS Audio DirectStream 4. Chord Qutest (with and without M Scaler) 5. Lampizator Amber 3 6. Chord TT2 (with and without M Scaler) 7. Denafrips Pontus II 8. Denafrips Terminator II 9. Cambridge Dac Magic 10. Schiit Bifrost The top two from these in my system? Chord Dave without M Scaler and the Denafrips Terminator II. Both of these are different yet both are world class and rose above every other DAC that I tried. The DCS was brilliant but I actually liked the DAVE better within my system. The DAVE is just a gorgeous music maker. Detailed. 3D, Smooth, Textured. Layered and with massive depth. It's not lean I my two channel speaker system, rather full bodied. The Terminator II is smoother still with even more body yet it has the details of the Dave. Low level details shine with both DACS but the DAVE is much more energetic, dynamic and alive. The Terminator II is a shade darker than the DAVE but just has a heavenly musical sound about it. I have been enjoying them both and could live with either as my final DAC. The dynamics of the Dave are addicting. I also prefer it without the M Scaler in my system. I preferred the Qutest and TT2 with the Scaler. This is in my system of course, and all of these DAC's will sound different depending on the system they are placed in. As much as I love the Qutest, the DAVE is leagues above it in sophistication, refinement, smoothness and scale. Oc course, we should see this difference for the cost difference between them. It's not slight. The Schiit Bifrost and DacMagic were the lowest tier in cost and performance. They both had a digital sheen and were no where as clean and smooth as the others. I guess this is to be expected. They were flatter and edgier. Either the DAVE or the Terminator will end up as my reference in my main system and I am leaning DAVE but man, the Denafrips is a stunner as well. The DAVE is old but still one of the best DAC's around if you have the budget. I have not had the pleasure of hearting a totaldac or MSB. I have heard a Holy May though to in my system. It was great from what I heard but gear should always be auditioned within our own systems before purchase. ; )
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Just recently auditioned the Weiss Medus and the abovementioned Soulution and CH Precision DACS. All are superb units, each with their own merits. I decided to stick with Weiss and upgraded from the Weiss Medea+ to the Weiss Medus. I also wanted to audition the BAT REX3 DAC, but unfortunately was not in stock at the time. I was told this is also an amazing DAC. |
I’ve heard a number on units on the OP’s list and other recommendations in this thread, but, not having heard them in my system, or a system whose sound I “know,” I cannot say any should be deleted or added to this list. It is also hard to discern what kind of sound the OP is going for absent some idea of what the OP has heard and liked or disliked. |
Detail can contain so many aspects and dimensions, at least binary micro details as image and Macro details as sound stage. Some dacs have good or even amazing image as T Plus but has either no width (Schitt Y OG) and normally no depth/ height (Rockna, Matrix X, Sonnet) Metrum). Some dacs manifested amazing stage but suck at image and resolution ( May KTE, Burson)
If detail here equals to macro plus micro, in my system to my ears 1, Mojo Mystique 2, Playback design
Add-ons 1, I could rate Rockna as best image and width but then it is lacking depth and height. 2, I have heard the whole line up of dcs in my system except the new Lina but haven't tried MSB in my setup yet and I don't count show demoing.
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@hifixman I reached a point some years ago when I no longer heard added resolution as hearing new details such as something low level in mix being suddenly heard. Since then, I've heard it mostly as sound stage and imaging differences, in the sense of greater expansion and dimensionality. I know Ed Meitner equates lower jitter very much with sound stage expansion, not just with digititus. Based on much research, the Playback Design and Mojo consistently rise to top of my list for possible dac auditions.
While I've heard nice dacs over the years, if not auditioned in my present system hard for me to make informed decision. I seek changing out only one variable at a time for this. |
I have the Dave and M scaler. Its been a small journey with this dac. I had a AudioQuest usb cable feeding it to start. Then I got the wireworld platinum usb cable. That made a amazing positive difference. At this point I did not like the m scaler and just used the Dave. I had a very good set of bnc cables but the m scaler just didn't sound as good to me as just the Dave. Then I got the Wave storm reference cables for the m scaler. All I can say is if you have a dave and m scaler you should try the Wave storm bnc cables. To my ears in my system it is a amazing combination. |
When I first got the Tambaqui, I thought it was amazing. But then I was encouraged to try a better streamer. So I go the Auralic Aries G2.1 and it got much better. blacker blacks etc etc. So then i went all in and modded the Aries with a full blown 'Sean Jacobs Custom power Supply. DC4 / AR6 Ultimate Series. It cost more than the streamer, and required a custom umbilical to bypass the AC inlet. Wow. Anyone who has not heard this is missing the point of a quality DAC. I know some streamers come with an uber good Power Supply. Look at the option on the Innuos top end streamer.. I did not believe it till I heard it. |
Wadax Reference 105 MSB Select II 100 Ideon Absolute 98 Lampi Horizon 97 Lampi Pacific 90
Dave (Farad 3 linear power supply and Mscaler (fed by linear supply) 90 Ideon Ion 89 Wells Audio Cipher Dac II 88
After spending one week with Dave modified with Farad 3 power supply, I upgrade its score from 87 to 90.
Now its bass is very tuneful with nice decay while some remaining siblilance is gone.
If you have Dave, I have strong recommendation for Farad 3 installation which cost me 3k euros including three separate power supplies.
Thomas
Thomas |
Berkeley Audio Design Ref 3 DAC ought to be in consideration. I own a BAD Ref 2 DAC. Streaming via DH Lab D-750 SP/DIF IC with BNC adapters from Bluesound Vault 2. Even with that low-cost streaming set-up, sound is vivid, natural, and dynamic.Sound has both large scale and intensity present with best analog set-ups. |
Just took possession of a Gryphon Kalliope yesterday. To my ears and to my wife’s ears, it is absolutely fabulous. Smooth as silk without being gooey or sloppy at all; dynamic as hell; extremely fast and incredibly detailed without being etched, grainy, or even dry sounding; and seemingly effortless. It sounds just about perfect to my ears. |
I would say that at the level Playback is at, “high fidelity” via detail, accuracy and staging is expected to be excellent and should be. It is these intangibles (musicality, dynamics, etc…) that make you want Playback over its competition of vice versa. Whether it be the Rockna, Aries Cerat, EMM or Playback DACs, each has something unique that separates them and makes them special. |
I have not owned many of the dacs listed but do have some experience with a few. I am running pass labs xa100.8 to power perlisten s7t with a holo audio serene preamp. YMMV. I will start with the dac that did not work in this chain. The terminator plus was probably my biggest disappointment. Virtually flat, narrow soundstage with cramped imaging. Tonally it did nothing wrong but nothing really right either. It had plenty of detail. Voices did not fair well with a metallic sounding attack and decay. I have also tried the chord mojo for my headphones and did audition the dave in my two channel. I am just not a fan of the chord house sound so take my opinion with a grain of salt. For some reason I just find it a tad boring, nothing I can pinpoint as wrong but to my ears, in my system, the synergy is missing, the staging and imaging does not place the musicians in the room and there seems to be a lack of micro-detail that adds a sense of realism. Everything sounds musically pleasing but for me lacks the vivid detail that transforms great sound in to great live sound. The benchmark hpa4 and rme ad-2 came after. I loved both as far as price, features, especially the hpa4. I preferred the hpa4 soundstage as it was a bit wider. Both did surprisingly well w my focal utopia headphones as well as two channel. I give the edge to the benchmark because of the wider soundstage. Plenty of detail exposed through both, tone wise perhaps slightly on the analytical side of things. I really enjoyed my time with both. Next came the holo audio may kte which was, imho, a hige step forward in my system. This dac I have spent the most time with. For the money I do not think it can be beat. The level of detail is really fantastic. The lack of noise helps to separate the instruments, ie imaging was pretty solid. The tone of this dac was much better than benchmark and rme. The soundstage perhaps was a tad narrower than the benchmark. It really did so much right I thought it was where I would end up, that was until… I had a bartok apex loaned to me for a weekend. I had assumed I would be running detailed comparison between it and the may the entire weekend but my gf helped me with a blind a/b test, perhaps unfair as I am very familiar with the may. The difference honestly shocked me. The soundstage of the bartok was MUCH wider and deep. The imaging was nearly spot on. I listen to a lot of jazz, folk, pop vocal centered music, especially female driven vocalist. The reproduction of voices through the bartok in my chain is astounding. The singer is in the room with you, micro-detail is all there, but not like under a microscope where it comes at the cost of natural tone. The venue ambiance is beautifully replicated in my room. For headphone lovers the comparison between may and bartok is very much like comparing focal utopia vs susvara. I love the utopias for detail retrieval but their tone and musicality lean cold analytical. The susvara are much more natural, retaining that detail but with such a balanced tone I feel like I am present at the musical event vs analyzing it under a sonic microscope. Needless to say, the may was sold and bartok purchased. I really want to try the mola mola, weiss helios, msb and of course the dcs rossini and vivaldi. It is a fun, expensive journey. One mostly traveled alone as each of us have distinct ears, chain, preferences and expectations. I just thought I would share my little snapshot. I am hoping to get the rossini apex in for an audition soon. I listened at a dealer w boulder amp and wilson audio alexxa but was a bit underwhelmed, remarkable imaging, best I have ever heard but there was a blurry muddiness to the vocals, as if all the high end energy and detail was missing. I am guessing it was perhaps the speakers at fault as it was a well though out room. But not sure where the problem was, hopefully not w the rossini. What was odd was with the rossini clock removed the top end muddiness in the voice was cleaned up but there was a hole in the vocal midrange that made the voice sound hollow. So really could not get much out of the audition. Hopefully I can demo the rossini apex in my chain soon.
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And sorry I forgot to mention the hpa4 was obviously paired with the benchmark dac 3 so my comments really reference the performance of the dac 3. At the time I did not yet own the serene. Also the dealer speakers were alexx v. If trying to cut costs I would recommend the may kte paired with holo audio red and serene, easily best value. If you can spend a little more, the bartok apex is where I would go. The mola mola might end up a good in the middle compromise but having never heard it, that is only inference from the reviews of others. |
My current ambition, which may be unrealistic given my room is not optimal even with acoustic treatment, is keeping the detail and tone I currently have but improving soundstage depth and imaging. The dealer room really opened my eyes as to how good these aspects can be. I have spent a ton of time dialing in speaker position. I have demoed more speakers than I care to admit but the perlisten s7t are my locked endgame there. No other speaker has come close to my ears. I would love any dac advice as far as improvement in those areas. But if was giving myself advice it would be hit the lottery and create a better room to house my chain. |
After thoroughly comparing the Playback Design Dream and Kassandra DACs, I would rank the Kassandra as my top choice, with the Playback Design following closely behind. While both are exceptional DACs, the Kassandra stands out for its superior midrange fluidity and tonality, bringing voices and instruments to life in a way that is truly captivating. |
@jamegla I have some of the gear you are talking about. The Serene and HPA4 are sonically very similar, contrary to some posts online saying that the Serene kills the HPA4. Love both of these preamps (I have the LA4). The LA4/HPA4 has much more useful features. Great thing about these 2 preamps is that they will really let you hear the upstream components (such as a DAC) without editorializing the sound. When I get a Playback Designs Dream DAC I will use 1 of these 2 preamps. I already have a PDB Plink based streamer. BTW - Since you mentioned headphones, this Friday I am going to hear what some are saying maybe the world’s best headphone. The new RAAL 1995 Immanis (will also hear the Magna). I have the older RAAL models, which compete with the Focal Utopia and Susvara you mentioned. The new RAAL 1995 phones are said to be much better than what I have. Today, I received a new headphone cable for the Serene preamp. Unfortunately, the old RAAL phones need more power than the Serene can deliver. The Immanis may work with the Serene and this new cable I got. A great DAC is really important for headphones. |
