PSVANE Mfg Co replaced my older 6SN7 CV-181 TII tubes

Good post. It's always important to ask.

Thanks @noromance and to your point, I barely asked researching future options, and was kind of surprised they offered to replace these now 3 year old sitting tubes.

The other reason I posted it is because I made some early assumptions about PSVANE, researching what happened to both TJ Full Music and Shuguang for the intent of just having "something else" than my small vintage tube collection to use.

Recently had a multiple tube failure with some smaller new Gold Lyons, And revisiting the PSVANE again came about while waiting for a return-refund on the GLs. I’m still on the hunt for the good new/re-issue backup tube sets to keep on hand is why. Some of these newer tubes out now just keep sounding better even compared to what was out 2-5 years ago. Knock on wood, fingers crossed again that more of them will last. I believe that’s been an ongoing question for many here on Agon and other forums rightly so. 

Awesome to hear PSvane cares that much about the tubes they make especially since people always put Chinese companies down for after sale service.

@decooney I will definitely follow this thread as I followed the tread you mentioned earlier with the guy from Psvane trying to get a feel for his market here on Agon. WTS, I think you are probably the right guy for the job of evaluating the tubes over time and giving the feedback needed for future buyers. I for one have been very pleased with Psvane tubes in every application I have tried them in but soured a bit with the short life of some of their WE replica 6SN7plus tubes and have looked elsewhere for my needs. I am going to give the guy the benefit of the doubt that replacing your 3 year old tubes wasn't the equivalent of a politician buying votes  and will be following this to see your updates. Good job, and thank you. Enjoy the music

Thanks @noromance @tooblue @jond and here we have a thread we can share to the folks at psvane Co to study feedback. And the question most have is how long will the 2025 dated production tubes last, as compared to any tubes made 2021-2024 for example.

Just had a buddy call me last night with a failed TII KT88 output tube. It was made 3 years ago as well. He’s not sure to order another quad or switch brands. He uses his older upgraded Jolida amp with these KT88s in it, one tube with White color now a the top and one other of the four not glowing now. Replace one, two, four, that is his question to me now.  I think buy all 4, keep two of the old ones as spares maybe. Hmm, there are multiple sources to buy them now too, with a lot of tubes out there from PSVANE.  Seems they may want to keep on top of this. 

So, hopefully tubes in 2025 will all be under the radar of their reportedly new quality control initiatives. My 6SN7 input tubes should last longer then output tubes on amplifiers I’d think. It will be good to start hearing from others here on output tubes next as they seem take more of a beating than small input signal/driver tubes etc.

Looking on PSVANEs site I don’t see the older Gray/Gold TII output tubes listed for sale any more. On to the new Acme, Horizon, Art Series, Shuguang versions I guess.

Did your buddy use the KT88 tube for the 3 year he had it? If it failed after 3 years of use that's not really too bad.

To @jond its like this, 3 year old tubes and 1.5 years of use on weekends only.  The other three tubes seem to be chugging along, maybe one other is degraded but still working. In summary, two of the four still working just fine. More like two failed and two are still good and functioning properly, bias fine and all. The other two don't.  

I'd probably characterize it more like mild use vs. others I read here who run their amps daily M-F and opt tubes still last 2.0 years or more.  Best I can describe it.  

@decooney thanks for sharing.  Nothing to do with this thread but after reading through the previous (lengthly) thread you mentioned with the Psvane Rep. it prompted me to try some Art Series 12au7.  They were purchased through Amazon from a seller out of China.  I was looking for something warmer than their current Horizon Series, to switch out some of my NOS tubes that I’d like to preserve.  Long story short the tubes were noisy out of the box and I sent them back.  They’re sending a replacement set so we’ll have to see how the next set works out but I’m not optimistic. I should have thought through the purchase before making it since the pair I purchased was priced below market.  Quite frankly it seems that some overseas sellers maybe getting rid of Art Series rejects now that Psvane is pushing the Horizon Series.  Strangely enough it appears that Amazon has also since removed this particular seller.

To @marco1 was it the actual psvane co as the seller on Amazon? I spoke with them directly about this purchase vehicle too.   Apparently this was supposed to be their US outlet to buy from Amazon direct for PSVANE. Hmmm. Thanks for the note, I was gonna order two 12a..7 pairs too, Art Series, and I’m going to hold off until you report back on how this works out for you.

@decooney no these did not come from the Psvane factory store.  I believe the reseller on Amazon was Hi Spot or something similar.  It’s a Chinese reseller.  Replacements are due to arrive next month, but maybe they’ll arrive early like the first set did. They’re shipped from China but the return address is Portland OR.  Strange. I’ll report back once I listen to them.

Update-2: about 10 days mild play time on the new 2025 PSVANE CV-188 TII MKII (6SN7) tubes now. The leader contact at PSVANE manufacturing kept referring to these as the new "Art Series" yet they look like the former Gray and Gold TII MKII  tubes as before.  

Two observations.

- better for sure than the same tube manufactured 3 years ago

- more open, more texture, and more details coming through

Comparison:

I still like my former sets of prized TJ Full Music 6SN7s and while these new PSVANE were close the first 1-5 hours, after about 20 hours play time I can truly report  these new PSVANE replacements have surpassed my best TJ Full Music pairs, they surpass my best matched 1960s vintage Sylvania 6SN7GTs, and all of my other re-ssues 6NS7. Man, I hope these last. They are very nice sounding. 

Other possibilities:

I wonder if I was provided a pair of their very best tested matching sets for replacement, I did mention I’d report back what the results are once I get time on them. Not suspicious but I am curious, or the first 2021 set was really that bad.

All replies welcome.

they surpass my best matched 1960s vintage Sylvania 6SN7GTs, and all of my other re-ssues 6NS7. Man, I hope these last. They are very nice sounding.

This is the happy+sad part.

@decooney ,

I am happy and disappointed with Psvane at the same time. So about 5 months ago, I tried their Horizon 12AU7 tubes and was so happy with the sound that I decided to store the Mazdas for future use. Unfortunately, in exactly 4.5 months one of the tubes went bad - so bad that I could hear the "hiss" 10 feet away where I sit. They asked me to create a video, analyzed that and then asked me to break the tube and sent the pics...etc, etc. After that they sent sent me a new replacement pair. In the meanwhile I started using the Mazdas. But when I got the Psvanes back, I liked them better than the Mazdas I have.

So it is a sad story that, even if they sound better, they lasted only 4.5 months and now if this pair goes bad in, let's say 6 months, it means that they only lasted about 11 months. While they have a warranty of 1 year, I am not sure if Psvane will honor that for the replacement tubes. I really wish they had a good quality control.

Needless to say, I will not be purchasing their Horizon series again. If I have to get a Psvane, it might be the ART series from Vivatubes. I will also look at Electro-Harmonix in future, as I understand that their GOLD pin series are significantly better than the non-gold pins.

And I think you are absolutely right - these new tubes do sound like the TJ Full Music.

To @milpai thanks for the update and sharing your story too.

You are now in the same position as me, waiting about your replacements, "if they will last".

The only added context or hope I have is how this unnamed leader informed me they "do" acknowledge having quality" issues with tubes made in the 2021 time period my last tubes were made.

Did you happen to take a photo or still have the test cards for your prior tubes that went bad prematurely - did they show the month & year manufactured?

At least you guys got your replacement tubes.  My 12au7 Art Series replacement set was shipped 12/27 and expected delivery per Amazon is by 2/25.  I guess they’re on a slow boat from China🤣

@marco1 ,

If you have to buy the ART series, you should use Vivatubes. Assuming that you are based in the US. But for such a delay, Amazon let’s you cancel the order.

@milpai i’m in the US but It’s already been shipped and supposedly on the way.  So they will not allow me to cancel on line. Maybe if I spoke to customer service.  But It’s really not that big a deal.  I’ve got plenty of tubes.  I can wait.  I saw that Viva sells the ART series.  At the time Amazon’s price was about $30 cheaper for the pair.  Since they’ve raised the price to more than Viva. This may very well be the last time I buy Psvane although the Horizon series intrigues me.  Live and learn 🙃.

@milpai @marco1 this unnamed leader person at PSVANE Co shared over email that Amazon is the primary method they use to sell tubes in the USA now, even ahead of Viva. We got into a sidebar discussion about me having to return a pair of GL tubes that were very poorly packed inside the small boxes, one was DOA, and they mentioned having a shipping/packing issue with Viva and returned tubes too. I myself have not had that issue previously with Viva until this last time with my GL tubes fwiw. Thankfully Viva refunded me. Yes, I took extra time to write notes back to Viva about how they need to FIX their recent light packing / less protective and boxing issue. The dam GL tubes had no protection inside the boxes, semi-rattling and sloshing around inside the little tube boxes, totally avoidable. Maybe an isolated issues with an employere over holidays, I dont know. Just guessing. PSVANE did call this out about them and how we got onto the Amazon order channel.

Same BS happened with TJ Full Music a few years back. They would ship 100 tube containers to the US ditstributors safely, they would arrive fine, then get stripped down and shipped out to clients in pairs in a much less protected way. Took TJFM about two years to figure out what happened there and why. I ordered tubes back then from an overseas distributor, and the tubes always arrived super well packed and double-boxed too, with cotton inside the tube boxes internal/external for comparison. Let’s see what you get from Amazon now. We can compare.

Ask:

@marco1 when the PSVANE tubes arrive from Amazon can you take a few photos of the outside of the boxe(s), and the packing of tubes inside the tube boxes?

@milpai @decooney it looks like I spoke too soon. The tubes were laying in my driveway when I put out the trash last night. No notice of the delivery but when I checked Amazon tracking had changed to show that the tubes were delivered. Packing is ok, I guess. Tubes are in individual tube boxes and wrapped in styrofoam placed in a small cardboard shipping box. Nothing rattled. I did snap some pics but don’t know how to include here. Tubes are breaking in now in my line stage but are quiet and actually sound pretty good. They took the place of some 40’s RCA 5814A black plate premium military grade tubes and while not as refined or smooth are beginning to sound quite similar. I’ll see how they do in the weeks to come. I’ve also got some NOS Mullard and Mazda I’ll compare them to. So we’ll see. But for $30ea. I’m pretty impressed so far. @decooney if you send me your email I’ll forward the photos.

SHIPPING PACKING REVIEW - PSVANE tubes:

Member @marco1 shared photos today of what was received from Amazon USA for PSVANE, and we can now compare notes. Im also comparing another brand shipped too.

On a rough scale of 1-10, 10 being best, will do my best to rank them across threads and complaints on Agon.

Quality Check - This is comparing outer Boxing quality of box used, rigidity, internal box stuffing and packing, and inside each of the actual tube boxes, foam or cotton. This does not explain how/why only what we’ve seen receiving tubes lately.

Quality of outer boxing, internal packing, support for tube inside their boxes:

• Amazon Direct (6)
• Viva Tubes (6)
• MFG Direct, China (7)
• Large Distributor, China (8)

Action:

• Ask your USA tube reseller of PSVANE tubes [or any] to share photos with you via email before they ship out. Imo, some do a lazy/poor job of it. Its free and easy to ask at time of purchase. Worth taking and pressing them on it. Seriously, it can help save you and the seller added frustration getting their shipper person to do better. .

Samples: not from a one time occurrence-reference. I’ve noticed this multiple times now. I can’t explain why, but for some reason the overseas distributors seem to better understand the value [lessons learned] to do their best job with better outer boxing and packing inside the box. Thus avoiding having to send more replacement tubes to you again here in the USA.

It’s gotten worse lately, why? Use this intel to prompt them before shipping your tubes out. 

My Psvane ART 12AU7’s have been playing for about 4 days so they should be pretty much “there” now as far as break in goes. They sound ok for the price but don’t come close to any of my old stock, which really doesn’t surprise me. What I thought might be promising when I first started listening didn’t improve much as the hours went by.  If I had to rate them I’d say better than JJ’s but not as good as Gold Lion reissues. I have also heard some periodic crackling coming from one of them that lasts maybe a few seconds and then goes away.  Not good and likely a sign of what may be coming.  I think I’ve satisfied my curiosity and probably will not be purchasing Psvane again, at least not the ART series 12AU7.

@marco1 will be curious if they open up a little more in the next few weeks or not.  

My new replacement PSVANE 6SN7s sound a little better in my tube preamp after a tad more time on them. They are not overly uber-detail, which is great for my taste. More on the smooth side yet open reasonably so, detail still comes through without any etch - if that make sense, a nice balance. Tonally better than my best vintage 6SN7s hoarded away.  

@decooney thanks for the tip.  i’ll plan to let them play for now to see if they do change for the better.  Which Psvane 6sn7 do you have, Horizon or Art?  If I did continue trying other Psvane tubes I was thinking about trying 6sn7 next as both my preamp and amp use them.  Smooth and tonally balanced with reasonably good detail (no etching) is what I look for too.  Out of curiosity have you tried Rays tubes? I have not but read that Psvane might make some of the variants that Rays markets.

@marco1 maybe we can talk offline later about some your Qs. In short, my replacements were referred to as "Art Series" by one of the leaders at PSV Mfg who approved my replacement and ensured I received a good tested matched pair.

They do not have an ArtSeries label, they still have the MKII labeling as the prior gen had. Physically they look similar too, inside. They said different materials inside or something like this, and much better QA compared to 2021-2022 years just after the pandemic started slowing down. Take it all with a grain of salt.

Yes, you are correct about Ray. I pressed them about it at PSVANE, they have a spec requirement to meet, something like "Top5% tested, close tolerances per pair" etc, apparently get the Ray’s tubes label on them and shipped out as Ray Tubes. Is it worth it, I don’t know, these replacements of former TII MKIIs aka ArtSeries are nice, if they last. I have not heard Horizons yet. I read they are more open, detailed.

Im working with a friend who has old PSVANE KT88s in his upgraded Jolida amp, and they have started going out, same time from 2021-2022, and now he might go for the Horizons next, and thought it might be worth a try for him. No clue yet on Horizons so best not to take any recommendation from me on Horizons as I have not hands-on with them, not yet. Maybe a set of 6SN7s down the road of Horizons. We’ll see, still running these replacements to see how they do over the next year+.