PS Direct Stream Vs. Lumin X 1 Sound quality difference?

After a few months of back and forth with ethernet vs fiber, I prefer the ethernet on my X1. When I use fiber, the sound stage collapses, no separation of instruments, etc, just very 2D sounding with fiber. 

aberyclark,
Yeah, I would think so. The Lumin does have periodic firmware upgrades now too.

ozzy

I would guess the X1 would be the winner. Correct me if I am wrong, down the road if some, new magical DAC is released, you can keep using the x1 as a streamer and feed the new dac...correct?

Not only is the melcos100 there are other more affordable models, they all improve the sound obviously some more than others
https://englishelectric.uk/

Ingresa tu texto ...The melco s100 seems to me an essential device if you want to get the most out of the lumin, regardless of whether you are going to use the fiber or not

mecani,
Can you translate to English?
Thanks,

ozzy

The fiber connections confuse the heck out of me.
How about using a Ether Regen?

ozzy

una buena reseña, de melco s100 las pruebas se hacen con lumin x1, use el traductor de google 
 https://audioplaza.co.kr/review/133

Let Mecani answer but I’ll add that fiber is thought to be the best connection on some other well known audio forums. Explained there in lots of technical detail as well. No personal experience so just passing along. But it’s yet another thing to learn and spend on if you’re up to it.

So are you guys saying that using a fiber connection is better than ethernet?

ozzy

Ingresa tu texto ...It improves even more! Mine has about 400 hours and I am impressed, I have it connected by fiber with a melco s100 sfp multimode switch. This afternoon a colleague also has the melco s100 and he has brought it home to test, we have connected everything in series by fiber. !AWESOME! I'm going to ruin

Note sure what the SFPs were - whatever I could find at my local computer store. I might have to try different SFPs, though at the moment I'm very happy with the X1 and don't really want to mess with it.
I have generally found that ESS based DACs take a long time to run in - but usually weeks not months! I suspect it is the output transformer which is the major difference with the X1 and which takes a long time to burn in.

While I have owned the X1 I have also compared it periodically to my Mytek Manhattan II (also a great DAC). At first - during the first month - I preferred the Mytek. The X1 sounded rather two dimensional and muddled, with rolled off highs. Over time the highs extended, the bass extended and tightened, and the sound stage moved back further and further. The delta with the Mytek became greater and greater. Recently I did the comparison again and the X1 has moved further ahead, with the kind of holographic presentation and sense of realism and presence that it barely hinted at during the first month or two.

I also prefer the ethernet input to the fibre optic cable, which I find a little artificial sounding. I use an Uptone etherRegen with a DH Labs ethernet cable which I found did make an improvement. And I also prefer native file resolution - no upsampling

I have a similar setup, I have an ER before the X1 too.
What kind of SFP’s did you try?

First I had Planet single mode SFP modules in them and that was really worse than the Ethernet from the B-side of the ER. After that I tried StarTech multi mode SFP’s recommended by Peter Lie from Lumin, and that sounds even better than the LAN from the ER...it’s hard to believe but these modules really sound different.
BTW, it is very promising that it is still improving after 9 month, mine is about 1 month old now.

Charlie Watts on Get Yer Ya Ya’s Out- "Sympathy For Devil" is just insane!!! Love this version. His drumming, especially after Mick stops singing is sublime...

My hats off to all that contributed to this great thread.

I am contemplating a couple of upgrade options:

1) Lumin X1 stand-alone streamer/DAC 

2) Lumin U1 streamer and an Audio Mirror Trubadour SE III tube DAC.

Wow! It keeps improving past 9 months! 
Thanks for that info.

ozzy 

My X1 took well over a month even to start sounding good, and really 2-3 months before becoming exceptional. I have had it now for about 9 months and, seriously, I'm sure it is still improving. I've never before experienced such a dramatic change from running in of any component I have had, and over such a long time. After the first month I still wanted to sell it, and now I cannot imagine how a digital component could sound better.

I tried the isoacoustic footers with my X1 and I also found that it made the sound worse - sucked out the bass and lower midrange and made it sound thin. I just leave it with the stock footers.

I also prefer the ethernet input to the fibre optic cable, which I find a little artificial sounding. I use an Uptone etherRegen with a DH Labs ethernet cable which I found did make an improvement. And I also prefer native file resolution - no upsampling.

three_easy_payments,

Yes, I am using the Stillpoints Ultra SS under the X1. I just tried it without the Stillpoints and I prefer it with the Stillpoints. The SS provide a more focused image in the soundstage.

BTW, the sharpness has disappeared quite a few hundred hours ago. Sounds really good to me.

ozzy

@ozzy

First impression, perhaps a little sharp sounding, but its new and I assume a break in adventure is needed.

I know this was written back on July 7 so perhaps this has resolved with burn-in, but I was curious if you have been using the Stillpoints Ultra SS. My U1 sounds so much better without footers (I’ve tried BDR carbon fiber cones and Golden Sounds ceramic cones). I get the richest, dyanmic, while remaining neutral sound simply using a Symposium Segue platform. I’m going to compare to an Ikea bamboo board soon. Cones however just kept giving me a sharp treble edge and stole bass.

mecani,
I have about the same amount of hours on my X1. I would say it will probably improve at a more gradual rate going forward, based on what I have read.
When is the end of improvement? Who knows? I am very happy at this point.

Enjoy!
ozzy

Ingresa tu texto ...new owner of lumin x1 i am delighted with the sound i have been burning for about 380 hours, at what time does it stop improving?

kren0006,
I can’t believe how much fuller and immersive the soundstage is. The surround sounds better than my home theater equipment! Solo’s leap out at you. Again, I say it sounds through the speakers like listening with headphones. It took a while to get to this point compared to the sound the first week, it has improved leaps and bounds since then.

It is truly better, quantitatively 2X or more over the PS Dac. It should though, it costs 2x more! Well worth the extra cost in my opinion. I’m lucky I was able to trade in and sell several pieces of equipment to make the cost difference less painful.

ozzy

So Ozzy, can you estimate how much better X1 is now than the Directstream dac?

is it night and day?  Or is it clearly better but not mind blowingly so?

rossb,
Well I switched back to the native rez and I agree with you.
But man, I am getting some wide open soundstage! I was just playing Get Yer Ya Ya’s  Out- "Sympathy For Devil" and the guitar solo’s are way off to the extremes. And, I have played this tune many times! What an excellent Dac!

ozzy

Thanks. I think I will play it @ the DSD 512 for a while then switch back.

ozzy

I have tried it as well. But I prefer native resolution, which for most of my collection is redbook PCM. I find conversion to DSD and upsampling generally to sound a little artifical and "processed". But then I also thought the same thing about the effects of the M Scaler when I owned a DAVE.

I reread an online review of the Lumin X1 I think it was the Absolute Sound and in that review they suggested running the X1 output in DSD 512.

I just tried it and so far it does sound very good. Better stage presence.

ozzy

I use my Lumin X1 with a Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix power cord.

Thanks but I recently bought Siltech power cables and I am quite happy with them.Last night I had a ccouple of hours and was listening to the X1...after 2 weeks it sounds much better, very smooth and fuid now :)

kzs70,
I use my Lumin X1 with a Cerious Technologies Graphene Matrix power cord.
Due to selling my Bryston BDP-2 and the PS Dac to purchase the Lumin X1, I now have an extra one for sale.
Its listed on audiogon now if your interested.

ozzy

ozzy,
Yes it has improved a lot after 200 hours continuos playing.I think I need at least one more week break-in, so I am not changing the fuse before that...
Zsolt

kzs70,

Any improvement yet?
Tomorrow will be 2 weeks of continuous  music playing 24/7 on my X1.
Really digging it.
I just received the SR orange fuse for it today.

ozzy

kzs70,

You need to let it run 24/7 to get some more hours on it quickly.

ozzy

Not sure where you are in the breakin in process with your X1 but hang in there it does change quite a bit.

I still have less than 100 hours. It is better than it was on the first day but still far from what I heard with the demo unit.Yes I have to hang in for 2-3 weeks more. I try to be patient and not to change anything (fuse or power cord) until I am not happy with what i hear...

azwill,

Different power cords do work differently with each component, that I know for sure. 

Question:
Do the feet on the X1 come off? Placing the large Stillpoints under it only allows for them to be placed at the edges due to the X1 feet. I haven't  turned it upside to check if the feet are removal, but from what I can tell there appears to be no screw in them.

ozzy

I have also recently swapped power cord from another component.  It did change the presentation, so this may be something worth exploring after major hour break-in.

Well its now been 8 days. Close to 200 hours since starting the Lumin X1. At this point, the soundstage has moved way back and way wide. I have never experienced this even with all the add on devices I had used. That is; with my Bryston BDP-2/ PS Audio Dac combo i.e. Uptone ISO Regen, SOtM usb, Core Power perfect usb. etc. With that combo there was a nice left, right and center, but with the Lumin X1 there is an all encompassing soundstage. Sorta like using headphones.

kzs70,
Not sure where you are in the breakin in process with your X1 but hang in there it does change quite a bit.

Still haven’t received the SR fuse yet. Darn USPS...

ozzy

kzs70,

Congrats on your purchase, I ordered my X1 on blind faith, not the best way. I am using Stillpoints Ultra SS under mine, later on I will experiment with different footers.

I have now about 150 hours on the X1 and it is mellowing out more and more daily. I’ve been playing Qoboz HR around the clock.
It did start out pretty harsh. Funny that the PPT Omega mats affected the sound so much, but they do have a magnetic backing so that may be part of the issue. Or it may be whatever the PPT are made of affects the streaming and/or the electronic components inside the X1.

I ordered the SR orange 2.5A slow blow, because just as you stated the SR tend to blow faster than others.

ozzy

Hello Ozzy,

 

I got my X1 last Thursday so I am in a similar situation.

It does not sound good yet, it's really harsh and sometimes even unpleasant on some recordings. Luckily I had my dealer's demo unit on loan in my system before I ordered it, so I know what to expect in a couple of weeks time :)

Last night I put the Quadraspire Qplus Reference Support under its feet and it got even worse. Previously these were under the U1 Mini and they improved the sound. I guess during this break in time I should just leave it alone and wait patiently with any change in the system...

 

And which SR Orange fuse did you order? Lumin uses F2.0A fuses (fast blow) but my dealer says the SR fuses tend to blow earlier than normal fuses so I should get the 2.5A or the 3.15A version.

 

Zsolt

Now this is very interesting. At least to me.

I placed a Perfect Path Tech (PPT) Omega mat and some of the cards on the Lumin X1 and on the external power supply. I placed them on it from the day I received the X1.

I noticed that I was getting a upper/mid high frequency glare and limited lower bass response, but I thought it was due for the need of more break in time.

Today, I removed the PPT Omega mat and the cards from the X1 and to my surprise the sound quality blossomed and became much more enjoyable and smooth.

Come to think of it I also did not place a PPT Omega mat under my former streamer- Bryston BDP-2.

So, since the X1 also contains a dac with lundal transformers it seems that what ever the PPT Omega mat / cards are made of, it conflicts with the Lumin X1.


ozzy

Here is what Source Systems LTD/ Lumin commented on via email about the Lumin break in time.

" All good digital takes 400-500 hours to begin to sound its best. Then it gets better and better even after that. You can leave it on with or without music playing."

ozzy

Hey ozzy,

     Cool, Samsung 10.1s are very nice. excellent picture quality with a very responsive touchscreen.  

Noble100, Tim,
I first ordered a Apple I-Pad via Amazon but it must have been a resold unit because it already had a password and couldn’t be unlocked. Apple was no help.
Knowing that the X1 was on the way to me, I went to the local Best Buy and bought a Samsung 10.1. Tablet
It seems to work and do what a good remote does, so I am happy.

ozzy

     
    Hello ozzy,
      I do the same thing as three_easy_payments with my D2, leave it on 24/7 and it's set to 'sleep' after 15 minutes. 
      I use mine with a 20 TB Synology storage unit, using an iPad as the GUI, and with all 3 devices wirelessly connected to my wi-fi.  I like the Lumin app with its mega data and configurable sortation options including the resolution of each track playing.  It's only frozen up on me once in the almost 5 months I've been using it and this was easily rectified by just shutting the 3 units off and then back on to reset them.
     My only complaint thus far is I wish the letters for alpha quick access, with the letters displayed vertically down the right side of the iPad display/remote, were a bit larger; it's hard to select accurately without using a small stylus.
     Ozzy, are you using an iPad as a remote?

Tim

Thanks,  I wonder if it would matter the type of resolution playing through it? Probably not, but if I play Qoboz I'll find a higher rez file to loop.
I'm going to find the sleep setting.

ozzy

@ozzy  I leave my unit on 24/7 and have the display set to go to "sleep" after 15 minutes of inactivity.

Peter at Lumin recommends having it run 24/7 for at least 2 weeks.  He has said it does not have to be run with amps on, so I would run a continuous playlist all night for 2 weeks.

three_easy-payments,
Thanks. I noticed there is only and on/off breaker type switch in the back of the power supply so its probably designed to be left on all the time.
BTW, I just ordered a SR orange fuse for it.

ozzy

@ozzy  When I bought my Lumin U1 the distributer suggested I leave the power supply on for 500-600 hrs but not necessary to be running music through it the whole time.  I think the power supply burn-in is a big component of the run-in. I honestly have not noticed a big change in SQ but then again the U1 isn't a DAC as well.