PS Audio PWD MkII vs W4S DAC2


Has anyone done a comparo between these two DAC's. Love my W4S Dac2 but if the PWD MkII is a big step up, I might get the itch. Most interested in coax connection; less in USB.

Thanks.

Neal
nglazer
Hello Franklin, to change the fuse there are four screws on the bottom plate of the player. Just unscrew each one a little at a time and then take a small screwdriver and gently push the bottom plate untill it falls loose. If you google "how to change the fuse in ps audio perfect wave transport there is a pdf that will give you instructions.
Kedoades

I have the perfect wave transport and would like to change out the fuse-how did you go about opening the case to get to the fuse?
So this thread has been inactive for a while. I replaced the stock fuse in perfect wave transport and it is a game changer. It improved everything. Synergistic red was the fuse I am using.
The filter settings reported above are documented on the PSA forum.

My study of the issue agrees with the above, and I've concluded that the auto setting gives you filter 3 (minimum phase soft knee) for 44.1, and filter 1 (linear phase soft knee) for higher res than 44.1.
Erikminer:

I also own the PWD2 using a CAL Audio Cl-10 cd changer as my main source and I agree with you about the long break-in period, but I think it is more like 500 hours or more running it 24/7.

Also what is the source of your information that states that the five PWD2 filters are not as stated by PSA in the users' manual? As you can guess, I am primarily concerned about using the filters for low-res 44.1khz playback as the same five filters maybe applied differently (sound better) at other sample rates!
Erikminer:

I own a PWD2 using a refurbished CL-10 as the source and selecting Filter 1 for well recorded CDs and Filter 2 for less than stellar-sounding CDs.

How do you know that the five filters are not as described by PS Audio? Please provide evidence for your position.
Rfprice the PWD needs mucho break in a good 300-400 hours.. if you have a computer of sorts hooked to it just put on a radio station or Pandora or whatever and just let it play on..

Also I found that the firmware can make a bit difference I'm using the older 2.0.2 I find it's the most lush sounding.. It's pretty simple to try out different versions.

Also the filters are not as PSA describes them they're actually like this:

1. Linear phase ‘soft-knee’ filter.
2. Minimum phase ‘brickwall’ filter.
3. Minimum phase ‘soft-knee’ filter (Auto).
4. Linear phase apodising filter.
5. Minimum phase apodising filter

In The PWD Owners manual they're list as this:

Filter 1 MP APOD. Minimum phase Apodising filter.
Filter 2 MP SOFT. Minimum phase soft knee filter.
Filter 3 LP APOD. Linear phase Apodising filter.
Filter 4 LP SOFT. Linear phase soft knee filter.
Filter 5 MP 1/2B. Minimum phase recursive Half Band symmetrical filter

So try filter 5 or 4.. and if you're using the USB input try using Native not NativeX some folks feel that on the USB input (only) Native sounds better..
I keep wishing their was a head to head with the PWD MK2 vs. NAD M-51...just saying
In answer to Audiobill:

http://www.avhub.com.au/images/stories/australian-hifi/reviews/2012/2012-03/ps_audio_perfectwave_pwt_pwd_review_lores.pdf
Knghifi, I recently bought a PWD mkII and am looking to tinker with it. Frankly, I think it sounds a little bright in my system, and from the start I was not crazy about the inclusion of the touch-screen feature. You say that you replaced the Touch DPS with an LPS from Channel Island. I've googled this but I can't find what this is or how it's done.
You say that 2.4.3 is best sounding DAC Firmware thus far. Was this immediately apparent or was some "burn in" required. (Not sure how Firmware burns in.) Can you elaborate a bit on the improvements?

I likely will try it but want to have some idea of what to expect.
Firmware and software are instructions for a computer to execute a specific task so it doesn't require burn-in.

The most obvious improvement is coherancy of the sound. Everything just seems to flow and improved pace. A possible fix to jitter? Resolution also improved but doesn't sacrifice musicality.

There are multiple versions of PWD so dependiong on your unit, you will prefer a different version of firmware.

My brother has a PWD MKII upgraded from a MKI and he prefers an older firmware version. This is the reason I don't trust forums and just judge with my own ears.
My PWD came with 2.4.3 installed; a perusal of the PS Audio forums showed pretty good consensus that people were happy with the sound of it relative to the other firmware versions.
Knghifi,

You say that 2.4.3 is best sounding DAC Firmware thus far. Was this immediately apparent or was some "burn in" required. (Not sure how Firmware burns in.) Can you elaborate a bit on the improvements?

I likely will try it but want to have some idea of what to expect.

Thanks.

Neal
Has anyone ever seen actual test measurements for the PWD?

Or are its virtues solely word of mouth?

Thanks,
"BTW, is there a CONSENSUS best sound version?"

I thought there was...

"2.4.3 is the best sounding DAC version so far." :)
Accordinig to a number of posts on the PS Audio forum, the jury is still out on the latest firmware upgrade.
It easy to install so I always want to judge for myself. If you don't like it, just roll back to the previous version. Takes 5 minutes MAX.

BTW, is there a CONSENSUS best sound version?
Accordinig to a number of posts on the PS Audio forum, the jury is still out on the latest firmware upgrade. A number of owners posted that they had gone back to 2.2. because they did not like the way 2.4.3 sounded.

I was considering upgrading to 2.4.3, but the mixed reviews convinced me to stay with 2.2.
While on the PWD MKII DAC topic, has anyone loaded the latest firmware (2.4 something)? Before I make the move, interested to hear comments. Yes, it can be reversed, but it is a pain tooling with these things.
Yes, I'm using Bridge Version:0.2.14f and DAC Version Mark II:2.4.3

These are the latest. This bridge version is more stable. 2.4.3 is the best sounding DAC version so far.

it's very easy to change Dac firmware, just download and copy to the SD Card.

To update bridge firmware, on PWD panel, scroll to Network bridge page and hit Update.

On PS Audio site, there's Official PS Audio PWD Firmware Download and Instructions - See more at: http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/6438/official-ps-audio-pwd-firmware-download-and-instructions-direct-link#sthash.EyrUGKQ8.dpuf

BTw, the latest eLyric iPhone and iPad app doesn't work with ios7 so i've been using plugPlayer FYI
While on the PWD MKII DAC topic, has anyone loaded the latest firmware (2.4 something)? Before I make the move, interested to hear comments. Yes, it can be reversed, but it is a pain tooling with these things.

Neal
Cymbop,

Just saw your question. Yes, more than ever. It has become a permanent part of my audio family. I don't think much about it, which is the highest compliment I can pay a component. Just groove to the sounds.

I don't use USB; only AES/EBU (Stealth Sextet) and PDIF (Kharma Grand Ref). May try USB with Internet radio and Samsung netbook just to hear what it's like.

Good luck.

Neal
Cymbop,

It *is* amazing how good Pandora sounds via Native X on a Squeezebox Touch. The MOG 320 is also great. I fool friends all the time who think it's a cd and ask to see the liner notes.

One caution: make sure your setting is always on Native X. Sometimes it switches out due to user error or after powering on and off.

I concur with everyone on the Hifi Tuning fuses as well. For the price, I don't think you can beat this unit.
Cymbop, I have a similar setup with a Touch. Only use digital out to PWD for SqueezeNetwork internet radio. From my experience, sound is superior with the bridge but very very acceptable with Touch.

Several suggestions:

1. Upgrade fuses in PWD
2. Get a good PC. You can pick up a HiDiamond P3 on Agon at good price. In system, I actually prefer P3s to Elrod Statements and easier to use.
3. Replace the Touch DPS with a LPS. Improves sound and lowers the noise level of your system. I got one from Channel Island.
4. With bridge, hardwired is superior to wireless. I found AQ made a huge improvement over generic ethernet cable.

I'm using PWD NOT budgetary reasons but it sounds excellent in my system. I plan to keep mine for a while too. Buy with your ears and NOT ...
You access the internal compartment by removing the bottom plate. The web site gives instructions.
Kng, for budgetary reasons I'm going to stick with my Squeezebox Touch until it goes belly-up. Then I'll go for the bridge or whatever updated version of it might be available. I expect the bridge will sound better than my SBT due to the extra digital lens.

Regarding break-in, I'm going to be zen and take my sweet time with it! I power on the system for about 5 hours a day, so it will take me 2-3 months to accomplish at that rate. The PWD was a stretch for me and I'll live with it for a long time, so if I can get improvements over the next 12 weeks without doing anything, that's like getting tweaks for free!

I will echo what a prior poster (Vhiner?) mentioned that even a 192 mp3 from Pandora now sounds damn near as good as redbook did before. That's stunning.
Do you have to take the top off of the perfect wave transport to upgrade the fuse? I don't see a little screw in the back like most of ps audio components have for the fuse.
Cymbob, are you using the bridge?

A nice improvement is changing the fuses. Try HiFi Tuning Supremes ... direction is back to front.
Cymbob,

There will be a little roller coaster ride during break in, but if you're this happy right out of the box, you are gonna be over the moon after 300 hours. Keep it on and in operation for best results. Once it's broken in, go for a Shunyata power cord and get ready for hyperspace. ;-)
I lived happily with a DAC2 for the last two years. It replaced a Benchmark DAC1 HDR, which I could I found unforgivably sterile, anylytical, and dry. The DAC2 had plenty of resolution, and added meat to the Benchmark's bones. Over time, though, I began to feel like the DAC2 was a little bit flat in terms of dynamics and imaging. It also bothered me a little bit that its volume control had a narrow sweet spot; to my ears it only came alive at 50 and began to feel unrelaxed north of 58 or 60.

The PWD MKII I bought last week puts my system in a completly different league. Out of the box I warmed it up for 90 minutes, selected the NativeX setting, and sat my wife down in the sweet spot to hear its first noted played. "Holy Sh*t! Are you f*cking kidding me?" was her immediate appraisal of the change.

I have never heard a top end so extended, yet so sweet and liquid. The bass, likewise, feels limitless and yet has a pitch delineation that I have not ever heard in my room. Detail retrieval in the midrange is stunning. Even in very familiar recordings I am hearing things I never knew were present on the masters. For example, last night's listen was Leo Kottke and Mike Gordon's album _Clone._ I heard occasional fret buzz on an open E string that had been obscured before. Even further, I could hear the pitches of individual strings on strummed chords in a manner completely new to me.

All this detail seems to come with no perceptible harshness or fatigue. I just want to keep listening to everything that I have.

I am one happy camper over here. Neal, are you still feeling the same way? Also, have you noticed any ups or downs in the break-in process?
Gago1101,

You should probably check out the next firmware upgrade when it comes out. I hear it may be a big step forward....of course nothing is real until it's out of beta.

PSAudio has the best user community I've ever encountered and, as others have mentioned, the user forums on its website are a rich resource.
This doesn't appear to be the issue, but just for others' reference, I tried an Oppo 95 as a transport for the PWD, and it was really terrible. Lots of the bad characteristics that were listed above. I loved the Oppo's video, but it was really a poor match with the dac and I returned it to Amazon within my 30 day window. I ended up using that money to buy a MacMini, and it completely turned around my impression of the PWD... especially once I copied all my disks over to a harddrive. I haven't heard the PW Transport, but using a computer server with the PWD was really a spectacular solution.
i'll second Vhiner's comments and take it one step further. my PWDII/Bridge/PWT are the most sensitive pieces of gear i've ever owned. power supply, power cords, fuses and vibration/isolation all made substantial improvements in sound...when similar upgrades were much harder to notice in the rest of my set-up.

went into the fuse upgrade thinking no way could this work....walked away completely impressed. just like dedicated power lines, PC's and a nice rack.... the sound just kept getting better!.

break in was incredibly long (300-500 hours). thought i was there after 300 hours as things were sounding really good. then....200 hours later....it was sounding even better??. you will know when you get there =)

also...don't forget to use CAT 6 or 7 Ethernet cables. they made a difference for me as well (yep...i know this is crazy).
If, after a few weeks and you are satisfied with its performance, you might
want to check the forums about upgrading your two fuses to
Hifi Tuning Supremes (very significant performance boost, IMHO). If you
want to hear what any DAC is truly capable of, upgrade the power cord.
Digital playback is very, very susceptible to electrical noise.
Very sound advice from Vhiner, much word of mouth confirmation from owners say it's a exceptional DAC.
After playing a few days and connecting the bridge, I have to say the sound continues to improve and the soundstage has opened up significantly.

Also, I was trying to figure out the best connection for the bridge and integration with my Apple airport extreme. Ps Audio tech told me Apple wi fi bridge more would not work well as they do not support UPNP. I cannot use power-line as it sucks in my house. You cannot use USB wifi adapters either. Finally, I found the NETGEAR Universal Wi-Fi adapter, which is one of the only adapters that act as a bridge and work with Apple. It gets its power from a usb line and provides the ethernet cable out. It works like a charm, and I can stream my 192Khz Flac files at about 6000kbps with no dropouts at all. Pretty satisfied.
I've heard the Oppo 95 and, against my well-broken in PWDII, it's no contest. Your unit needs several hundred hours to sound its best. Don't turn it off between sessions and let it run for at least two weeks continuously. Anthony Cordesman of TAS and hundreds of discerning audio fans who can afford far more expensive DACs than the PWD are not crazy in their selection of this DAC. Of course, there are better DACs than the PWDII; the stock Oppo is simply *not* one of them. Like any high end DAC, the unit will sound it's best with the best possible digital interconnect.
Gago1101, I have read the PWD needs significant time to break in. Head on over to the user forum at Psaudio.com for more info.
Good luck with that...the PWD should be quite a good piece of equipment. Take your time.
Sorry to bring this thread back to life again.
I just got my me pwd ii with bridge. First impression out of the box is that it is inferior to my oppo 95 at least through the coax cable. It has narrower soundstage and seems less extended. Now I am hoping that break in period is required for the Pwd and that the bridge will soound better than coax. Otherwise, I spent all the money only to find out my 2 year old Oppo is better? I am really sweating, in panic and a little upset
Neal,

Well put. I feel the same way about my old modded Meitner Bidat. It's a classic, but time marches on.
I have made the move and there really is no comparison: the PSA PWD MkII, once burned in, is audibly superior in every respect. That said, I enjoyed and respect the W4S DAC2 and could have happily continued to live with it. While it does not have the inner detail, crisp highs, or thunderous bass or soundstaging of the PWD MkII, it had an ineffable organic quality to it that was very pleasing and liveable.

So if you have the coin, the change would be very rewarding; if not, I would not in any way feel audibly deprived.

Neal
Was wondering the same thing re: W4S vs PWD II. Using the Audiophelleo2 with the W4S was a huge jump, understand that using the Offramp is potentially even better...
With the NativeX implementation wondering if PWD II takes that to a new level? Would appreciate anyone's thoughts or experiences...
Use lossless files off a Mac mini primarily, occasionally will use an Oppo as a transport.
Duck,
Those are two great transports. Is one better than the other? Ive read great things about the PWT and Bdp 1.
Have the W4S DAC-2 paired with PWT and Bryston BDP-1. PWT coonected by I2s and the Bryston transport by AES/EBU. I am very happy with the performance of the digital sources. My understanding from what I read is the W4S DAC is pretty close to the first version of the PWD, but the MK-2 is a big step up. With the Bryston, I don't really need the bridge. Guess I'll need to audition the new PSAudio DAC.