pros and cons: beryllium vs ribbon tweeters in sound and emotions terms
After a lot of searching and reading on web, there are some forums and documents where you can learn and understand the differences between this two, and basically you can conclude the ribbon are better; but in terms of sound or musicality (basically nothing on web), how they differ? which one is more involving, natural, emotional if you can say? so you can spend hours of listening AND having a realistic 3D sound experience at the same time without adding any character? Would appreciate comments from people that have actually heard both and some brands/ models recommendations from each type. Thanks for the comments
I suspect each has unique properties and unless listening to a tweeter alone which is better depends almost totally on the smarts of the guy building the complete speaker and utilizing each to best effect.
Folded ribbon tweeters I’ve heard in recent years delivered a very relaxed and non fatiguing sound, almost to a fault if one expects recordings to have a bit of an edge to it from time to time.
Metal tweets in general historically seem to lean the other way in terms of their faults when mentioned but most I have heard in recent years in quality products have not struck me that way. Some like Focal may have been Beryllium. These were nicely etched in the highs but also very easy on the ears.
Low noise and distortion upstream to start with is always a good thing to help keep any good tweeter on your good side. For example I have Dynaudios with Esotar soft dome tweeter that delivers a lot of detail and energy to the top end but might drive one out of the room if noise and distortion upstream are not under control.
Also of course the dispersion patterns of a ribbon versus dome tweeter of any kind tend to be much different. That might be the most significant difference I would guess.
If you want a 3D sound go with a 5 speaker setup, then use a good stereo upmix matrix, eg Pro Logic. You can then go with much much cheaper speakers. For layout, see the Grammy 5.1 guide.
Ribbons sound raspy to my ear and Berrylium seems to dry things up to much. Magnepan ribbons are excellent however. Some inverted metal tweeters can sound great and I second the Esotar! Diamond strikes a nice balance of excitement and smoothness!
I had Paradigm Sig 2's with Berrylium tweeters. Associated equipment was a Lightspeed Attenuator, Parasound dac, Classe CA200 amp. Sound was fantastic every which way you sliced it!
I then had Monitor Audio Gold GX50's with ribbon tweeters. Associated equipment was Peachtree Nova Pre / 220 Amp. This setup also sounded really, really good.
Im a fan of laid back ribbon tweeters, and beryllium seems to, for the most part, also have a laid back sound for metal tweeters, but they have great detail as well.
Both, ribbons and beryllium from my experience are very fast which helps in the detail department.
Folded ribbon tweeters I’ve heard in recent years delivered a very relaxed and non fatiguing sound, almost to a fault if one expects recordings to have a bit of an edge to it from time to time.
Which folded ribbons are these?
I lived with Dynaudio speakers with the superb Esotar2 tweeter for eleven years. After I sold them and bought a much less expensive pair of ADAM Audio ARTist 5 active monitors to tide me over, I was surprised to find that ADAM's folded ribbon tweeter was even more lifelike, present, and revealing than the Esotar2. Certainly no lack of bite there. It's hard to tell how much of the improvement comes from the tweeter itself and how much from the removal of the passive crossover between amp and driver.
Note that "folded ribbons" are actually air motion transformers, a completely different technology from ribbon drivers.
As Mapman said, I think it depends on how the tweeter is integrated into the complete design. I've heard good and bad examples of both kinds of tweeters.
My current speakers have ribbon tweets, and they've been implemented nicely. And they sound that way. At least IMHO!
ccolby most recently I’ve listened carefully to affordable Goldenear Aon 3 speakers with folded ribbon tweeter and liked those a lot. Have heard various others over the years including ribbon tweeters in Magnepan which is a totally different beast..
I’ll go out on a limb and say that I think ribbon and folded ribbon tweeters in general tend to be more "forgiving" of problems upstream than most any metal tweeter or the best soft dome tweeters, like the Esotar.
I’ve heard some cases where other soft dome tweeter designs may be more forgiving as well.
The soft dome tweeters in my OHM speakers for example are definitely somewhat more forgiving then the Esotars in my Dynaudios. Again part of that is the overall design and target sound I think perhaps as much as the tweeter alone.
I believe my Triangle Titus XS speakers use a Titanium dome tweeter. These normally are somewhere between the Esotar and OHM soft dome tweets in terms of overall attack, but with a quality signal tend to be somewhat laid back and smooth as well.
At least to my 56 year old ears.
When I was younger I could hear clearly to 20khz. Only to 12khz or so these days like most people my age. An up side is that as you get older, your ears become less sensitive to anything nasty that might be happening at high frequencies, often a result of noise and distortion rather than music, which is mostly just "air" above 12Khz or so.
I had Heil AMT speakers in my late teens and midfi electronics. A decent first try but not one that stuck with me.
Actually, I think the earliest Infinitys - such as the QRS - did use the Strathearn ribbon. Later Infinitys, such as the IRS, RS1, Betas, etc. used EMITS and EMIM planar drivers, but they weren't ribbons.
I've never heard any of those old full range ribbon Apogees that owners (with proper amplification) tend to cherish and never give up. Would like to. I feel the same way about Walsh drivers. Once you've been there and like it nothing else is quite the same.
Hi bi_limo, how would you describe the diferences between the paradigm sig vs audio monitor gold? Maybe like stablishing wich one was colder, Warner, natural, realistic. thanks
Folded ribbons (AMT's) are smoother and seem to be 'effortless' in their response to my tin ears. They're also high in SAF, as it's been noted that the f/m of our species seem to respond better to them. In my experience, you can listen longer and louder to them. The planar ribbons tend towards a 'crisper' quality, reminding moi' of the metallic dome tweets. I can hear a dome a mile away; I'm not a fan... MHO, it's bound up with the choice of the radiating material. Paper, plastics, metals, all have different 'voices' in their harmonics, given that there seems to be only slight differences in construction of late. (OK...void your warranty, open up that pretty enclosure, and tell me what you see lurking in there. It's like detergent...there's only a few ways to make it Economically. All else becomes 'solvents'...) ..and I'll vote with Mapman (Hi, guy! *G*) on Walsh's. 'Course, I'm horribly biased on this, since I'm DIY'ing them for my own bemusement. I've toyed with the idea of mating a pair of small AMT's rotated 90 degrees to each other atop a Walsh just for grins to maintain the 'omni factor'...
There is the issue of women being attracted to the folded ribbon sound to the point of distraction…when I want to seriously listen to something I don’t need to play doorman and kick all these women out of there….a nuisance, and hard to explain to my wife..."It’s the tweeters…really." To otherwise respond to a ridiculous subject the answer to which is clearly the speaker designer’s implementation relative to the listener’s preference (did I just leave out a comma?…maybe not), as a generalization I can (and now will) say I like tweeters with protection from probing fingers (my current aluminum/magnesium tweeters have little screens, or they'd be toast already)…I was looking at some Magicos recently and thought my 50 grand or whatever better include beryllium tweeter poke insurance. Amusement indeed.
Hmmm....Wolf, if I had regular visits from people I suspected might be 'serial speaker pokers', or even a new one that might suffer from that same 'mental disturbance'....
I'd keep a pair of poultry shears in plain sight. Perhaps next to your units, and very obvious. Wait for the inevitable question:
"What are those for?"
The LOOK you will get will be, as is said, Priceless.
The specially doped berrylium tweeter which is paired with a rear facing ribbons ambience tweeter in the new Von Schweikert VR55 yields the best treble that I have ever heard - fast, subtle, detailed, dynamic and absolutely no peakiness, overemphasis, edginess or harshness.
I'm surprised no one has commented about plasma tweeters such as those in Lansche speakers. I've heard all types of tweeters including Be tweeters in my current Rockport speakers. IMO, the Corona plasma tweeter is the smoothest and distortion free tweeter I've ever heard even though it doesn't fare well at very high volume levels.
There is my point, yes i guess the von schweikert vr 55 is a great speaker but you found ribbon tweeters in the highest lines, the same happens in other brands, monitor audio, nola, legacy, dali, and i think there are well stablished brands that dont used them because of reputation, i mean there highest lines with 5 ceros prices, has always used domes, to late to change the path,
Hello... Sorry, not a contribution to the specific model but a question....
Looks like I might be able to pick up a pair of VR-5's locally for approximately $1,000. I had a pair of VR-4's last year. The ones I'm considering are in VERY good shape - well worth it if I can get for this price?
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