Proac D48R

Strongly disagree

pass is a vey fine amp but in my experience not at its best with Proacs

Please  make sure your able to actually confirm hearing the pairing

with the  actual speakers above.

cheers JohnnyR 

 

 

PASS LABS INT- 25

 

I have also added a Nagra Classic amp to my system and the combination with the ProAc speakers is fantastic, although a different fantastic than the Luxman tube amps

ProAc doesn't share their crossover frequency, but the recommended frequency for the ribbon tweeter they use is 2,500 Hz when used with a second order filter.

What are the CROSSOVER points for the D48R ?  Can't find those specs anywhere ?  WTF ?

I changed up my amplification for my D-40r speakers and I am now using a pair of Luxman MB-3045 factory modified to use 6550 tubes, coupled with a Luxman CL-35 III or a new production CL-38uC.

The best combination I have heard so far in my limited experience. I have not tried a SET amp yet, but will let you know my thoughts if I try one. 

Best Regards,

Jim Perry

Has any of you guys ever tried the D48R with a SET amp with an 845? I currently drive mine with either a Gryphon Diablo 300 or with a fully restored Audio Innovations 500 integrated in (false) triode configuration, and l like them much more with tubes. Speaker and IC cables are Kubala-Sosna Emotion. I am considering a pair of old Cary 805C monoblocks, with that magical midrange 

Those Proacs can scale.  I've heard them a few times with all different electronics and cabling.  Personally, I love the AQ stuff as it's just so neutral.  I've seen dealers showing them with cables that are a bit unbalanced to MY ears and it tips the high end to the point I feel fatigued.  

They are very revealing, but are not that difficult to match up with electronics IMHO

@kclone ,
Good to know that you are still hanging on to your ProAcs. One thing to know - you have (probably) NOT heard the full potentials of these loudspeakers. I recently introduced the Inakustik power conditioner and later a Inakustik power cord in the system. And this positively transformed my listening experience.

hmmn, for my D48Rs,  I keep mine on but I haven't done a comparison against them with them off.  I will now. 

Vandersteen and a few others are the only ones I know of who voice their speakers with grills on. I have Vandy Quatro's and the grills have never been off of them and never will be as long as I own them. lol.  I kind of like that part. I have owned Proac's for years and always had the grills off.  Everyone I know who sells them have told me to keep them off.  That's why their beautiful baffle finish is important, lol.

This was not an issue when the speaker was new. After 1 1/2 years I notice that any small change to the speaker placement or grill makes a big difference.

What you are describing is relevant for almost any speakers I called it ’screening’ affect ,when you are hearing the speakers with the grills on it like you are putting a screen between the twitters and drivers to your ears .The grills are for to protect your speakers from dust or potential damage to the speakers’ components.

Anyone noticed that with the grills left on the D48R, they sound slightly lost in definition, imaging is affected, bass also looses definition. At least this is what I noticed with my D48R with ribbons. The "liveliness" of music simply goes away if you leave the grills "on".I was experimenting with a new position last and discovered this. But with the grills removed, the bliss returned. With the new position I was able to successfully achieve the LEDR Test UP. Also the vocals "lock" in the center now and the music sounds more coherent. Love how the D48S make music!

Got response from ProAc and Soundorg today and both confirmed that it is the M6 thread size.

Guys, you can get in touch with Johnny at Audioconnection about footers for the Proacs. He's sold them for many many years and has a great idea of what the footers will do or not do with the specific speakers.  The thing to remember is that footers, like anything else, will change the sound, but not always for the best.  It is all dependent on the speaker, the floor they sit on etc...  So far, the HRS footers/cones seem to be the best with most of my friends IRT an overall helping of the sound with various speakers in various rooms.  I have 3" granite plinth that has a silicone 'glue' joint.  It is an amazing upgrade that I've heard on a friends pair of Vandersteen's.  I have yet to install mine as I need other to do the work as I can't move heavy things anymore, lol. :).   

@twoleftears,Yes I believe it is one of the thread size in the Gaia box.

Is M6 one of the thread sizes that comes as an alternative in the Gaia box?

@mets1p,Thank You very much for the information! Appreciate it sir.

Hi milpai

  They are 6mm by 41mm long. They may use M6 (6mm) thread size the length may be the same or not. This is the email address I used  to contact ProAC: stewart@proac-loudspeakers.com. 

@mets1p,I had emailed them last year and did not hear back.But based on @itzhak1969's suggestion I have emailed them again. So lets see when they respond.Out of curiosity, what was the thread size on your DT-8? Maybe the D48R uses the same size.

I had the same question about my DT-8's. Like itzhak suggests I emailed ProAc directly and got an answer the next day from Stuart Tyler with the information I needed. He is very good about answering emails as I recently sent him another about some changed published specs and again he got back to me the very next day. I love the support for the little things it gives me confidence that they would be there if anything major should happen. Love my DT-8's they hit way above their price range!

Email Straight to Proac and ask them.

Anyone know the thread size of the footers on the D48R? I am thinking of getting the Isoacoustics Gaia II for my ProAcs. Have emailed soundorg.com, but have not heard back.

The footers were the HRS Nimbus.  The shelf was the new Vortex.  The thing is that they make different shelves depending on whether or not you have a sheet metal cabinet or one that is made of thick plate or even CNC machined. 

Thanks for the update @ctsooner . I would love to get the IsoAcoustic GAIAs, sometime in the future.

@ctsooner please provide some more specific information on the exact HRS product(s) used.

Thanks.

Mil, the footers shootout so far has the HRS Nimbus, Symposium rollerblocks and the Iso Acoustics as great ones.  The Iso, for the price have been awesome.  He's doing the Shun Mook and Magico right now.

These speakers are like monitors. Listening to "Road To Escondido". I like the entire album, musically. But the Recording on this CD is pretty compressed.
Nevertheless, I have not experienced this music in "full spectrum" before. One thing is for sure - a loudspeaker makes or breaks a listening listening experience. Basically some albums that I thought were "alright" before, sound so  musical. 

Matt is still working on it.  He will be using a couple of new ones tomorrow.  Looking forward to what he comes up with.  I'll post when he let's me know something.  I haven't used the pucks, but every time I"ve heard any iso gear, it was great for the money and honestly, just good no matter what.  I know a very high end dealer in the south who sells some very expensive footers and shelves and he loves the iso a TON.  Not everyone wants to or needs to spend thousands on platforms or footers, so the Iso stuff is a great value as you aren't sacrificing anything.  I also have never heard the HRS stuff not sound GREAT.  Their footers aren't too expensive based on the cost of others footers and he has them to play with.  That is the one I'm waiting to hear about along with Symposium rollers.

@ctsooner ,
What was the outcome of the "footer" shootout? Also I hear good thinks about the ISO Pucks. Any experience with them?

Please don't be mad as I don't want to offend anyone.  The Nordost didn't make the first cut.  I forget the reason's, but they just weren't close to the Iso Accoustic gear or any of the others.  I've personally tried them and not liked them as much as maple footers I made in the shop with cut off's.  For cheap, the wood footers are outstanding, but with the wrong gear will dull the top end and it can muddy the mids. 

Using the 'rubber' footers is usually best for the less weighty, folded metal cabinets.  Not always though.  Since it's still an evolution, I can't share which ones are best per say as he has Symposium in now along with HRS Nimbus and is getting Magico pucks.  

The solid metal cabinets and folded ones are just totally different beasts and may need different footers.

@ctsooner ,
Would like to hear more bout the shootout when it is completed - like what other footers were used, price points, advantages, availability, etc.
I have heard the GAIA and was pretty impressed with what they did. Amazing difference with and without, in that demo.

@ctsooner ,

I use the Nordost Sort Fut and recommend he try those. I will be interested to see a report on the results.

My buddy Matt is doing a footer shootout.  Gia are right there with some of the much more expensive ones.  Its a fascinating shootout to say the least.  Lot's of pretenders for sure.

@jperry ,
Thank You for the kind words. Yes, it is indeed a huge upgrade.

I will have to try some active preamp in my system. Not sure if any dealer or manufacturer would entertain the idea of in-home demo.

As for the factory spikes, they are fine for now. I have not experienced the Nordost footers. I have demoed the IsoAcoustics Gaia footer and was super impressed. Those are on my mind, but maybe for next year.

Kclone, the Aria is a really nice integrated.  I'd want something like my Ayre AX5/20 with it though or for a pre, that Calypso is crazy good.  I just sold my upgraded Rhea.  

@milpai ,

The ProAc D-48r in ebony look great in your room. A huge upgrade from the Quad 21L.

You should try an active preamp to see if that makes a difference for you. I am using an Aesthetix Calypso which is great in my system. 

I also replaced the factory spikes with Nordost Sort Fut. That made a very nice improvement.

Best Regards,

Jim Perry

If that combo sounds good, I can only wonder what the new Virtuoso will sound like with the D48R's.

ctsooner, are you talking about the Aria Integrated with the Proac D48s?

Thanks for the kind words.  When using a passive, you will miss some slam and dynamics.  Depending on how good or bad the active preamp is as well as how it matches your amp, will make or break the sound for you.  

You really should ask Johnny about the Belles pre amp.  To me, it's a Best Buy pre amp and I think well in your price range. Heck, their integrated amp is KILLER and sounds awesome with your speakers I've been told.  I've heard it with them once and loved what I listened to.  Whatever you do, stay away from using a digital pre amp that would be with a DAC, lol.

@ctsooner ,
Sorry to hear about your condition. Hopefully music soothes you.

What are you missing?

That is exactly what I want to find out about using active preamp in my system. I have been recommended the JR Capri S2 and the Wyred 4 Sound STE-SE Stage 2. I wonder how they will compare with the Parasound JC-2.
BTW, you have a great system.

Proacs are known for their imaging etc.. Yes, they are highly revealing which is what a high end speaker should be.  That's the biggest problem I have wiht Wilsons.  Fun to listen to and I could own them, but they lack the micro and macro detail I love.  Different strokes for .....

glad you have them burned in and set up.  Most speakers are easy to set up, but to coax the last bit of goodness, it takes time and moving them around.  I have to wait until friends come over to move them as I have MS and I can't even get up and down for album changes anymore, lol.  

mil, you ask about electronics, the thing is, you need to try them in the system.  What works for me, may not work for you.  It's about synergy.  Johnny R is going to be a GREAT resource as he's sold Proac's for years.  I found him when I needed to get a new pair of speakers after 20 years.  I ended up getting the Vandy Treo's instead as I liked them better, but I do love the Proac's also. It's one of the few ribbons I enjoy as they are musical and never harsh.  Stuart does a great job there.

What is your price range?  What are you missing?  So many good choices out there.  I personally ended up with an Ayre AX5/20 which is one of the best integrated amps I've ever heard in my life.  The pre amp is built in the passive mode if I recall correctly.  I'm not 100% there, but Johnny knows.  I'm going to be selling it soon as I am sure I'll want the new Vandersteen amps with adjustable crossovers, but that's a huge step up for me, lol. 

A couple of folks reached out to me and indicated that an active preamp will take my system performance to a much higher level, now that I have the ProAcs. In my system I have adequate bass and sound to the point that I have ordered 2 more tri-traps from GIK to cover the entire front corners, top to bottom.
My question is, what will the active preamps do that the TVCs are not doing? Is bass and loudness of a system not a good measure to judge that your system has enough gain?
I am open to suggestions.

yeah, most good speakers will reveal shortcomings in the recordings, just the way it is.  I have had some set ups where I can't even be in the room with these recordings, they are so hard sounding, hot, bright, thin, etc..hurts the ears.  I can listen to them on a boom box, or a car stereo, but not my main system.  With the Proac's you can still enjoy them, just use the right electronics and cable it right and you a good to go with that stuff, relatively speaking of course.

I believe that the speakers are properly "run in". I don't understand why people say ProAcs are musical and not for people who want "pin point imaging". These speakers certainly image awesome in my setup. They are super musical without being a bit analytical. The problem with these speakers is that they reveal shortcoming in the recordings. But on the positive side, it does not kill the musicality of the bad recordings. Only the "quantity" of the musical enjoyment is reduced. These speakers have been keeping me up, late into the night.

The setup in this review is much different, yet the reviewer liked the D48R.

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&prev=search&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=zh-TW&sp=nmt4&u=http://review.u-audio.com.tw/reviewdetail.asp%3Freviewid%3D1369&usg=ALkJrhg_LsMO7FzPmBdedMq8Mp9syQOgdA

@cmach,
One thing I forgot to mention. I know that the vocals (or center image) in my system can be further improved, if I remove the audio cabinet in between the speakers OR lowering the height of the cabinet OR placing the components on the floor. That will be the next step, but not for the immediate future. I will do that in the coming weeks, as and when I find time.

@cmach,
Ha ha, I agree, it always feels good to know that you are not the only one. I feel that this is a generic problem. But folks like us are super-critical about our placement and that is why it bothers us so much. Over last night and tonight I spent an additional 1 hour and I think I have got the placement more to my liking. Thanks to the so many suggestions from JohnnyR, @ctsooner, @itzkak1969 and others. My final position stands at 74" from back wall, 40 1/2" from side wall with 100" between the speakers. All distances from the center of the tweeter. The speaker, now, does not face the listening position "directly". Instead they are angled slightly so that I cal see a very small sliver of the inner walls, such that, if a line were to be extended from the tweeters of both speakers, to the listening position, they would cross about a feet behind the listener's ears.
Listening to Steely Dan's "Pretzel Logic" and the vocals seems dead center. One observation is that these are absolutely not analytical speakers. Since these speakers are new to me, I start listening with the intention to experience the "sound staging and imaging". But this speakers does not allow me to focus on that. It creates such a coherent sound that, you look at the music as a whole instead of trying to identify the individual instruments/vocals/effects/etc. I love the guitars and the tight bass. I think this is the bass I was looking for. It provides the strong foundation of the musical experience.
Just finished Steely Dan. Next album is Faith, George Michael. Vocals are centered and I have no issues. Would like to hear from you when you get that "lock on vocals" in your system. I will update my system in a few days. Between job, kids and activities it is becoming  more challenging to do this. Do post your system pics, if you get a chance; would love to see your system.

Milpai,

I got a chuckle reading your latest post. Exactly the same issue
I've been having with my D-30R's. To be fair I had the same struggles
with my B&W's as well. Nice to know I'm not alone. One tip I would
pass along is that I have my listening chair at a slight angle to my
system. Its centered but the chair is pointed at a slight angle to the right.
Seems to help keep the image centered more consistently.  I'm still not
completely happy but I'm getting closer. Glad to hear your enjoying
the D-48R's.