Primaluna and Focal go great together. If you call Upscale Audio they will tell you their Focal Sopra 2s in the demo room are setup to an EVO 400 Integrated. The Primaluna's are detailed and airy, not bright.
Prima Luna EVO series amps/preamps now available...
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I had a PL Dialogue Premium HP integrated with Focal Aria 948’s for a while. The speakers didn’t do it for me (i rolled lots of different tubes, but eventually could not overcome persistent brightness)...Hi @dpac996, I am new to tubes and am considering pairing some new Focal 948s with a PL EVO 300. One of my concerns with the pairing is the brightness you mentioned. Unfortunately none of the shops near me have this set up, so I am really putting a lot of through/consideration into the potential purchase. Anyway, I recall hearing that ultra high end wiring (i.e., platinum and silver) can sometime accentuate that bright characteristic in the Focals. Would you mind sharing what wiring you were using in your set up and if you think that could have been a factor? Sounds like you test a lot of different solutions. |
Sorry for the late reply! But that answer I don’t know. I do know that my Don Sachs Preamp has a very nice stepped attenuator. I have no experience with PS Audio or Rogue. I did own a NAD preamp with an Alps Blue Velvet attenuator as in the Primaluna...they’re fine and completely analogue. But at this level, a nice stepped attenuator is what you want. |
Well there is an ocean of difference In sound quality between The Dialogue Premium power amp and the Evo 400. I bought the Dialogue Premium (DP) 2 weeks ago and put about 150 hours on it. Day one: It sounded good...great bass, good dynamics and lush. But my previous 2 amps had much better detail/resolution. Still I gave it a chance rolled some tubes in there. Today and 150 hours later...I drove it down to Upscale Audio and traded up to the Evo 400. I looked online to see the internals of the DP and DP/HP. There’s a lot more ’pink’ in the HP...meaning way more Takman resistors in the HP and slightly better coupling caps. I also compared the insides of the HP to the Evo 400. There are only subtle upgrades. The Evo 300 shows the biggest upgrade from the DP. Still, I didn’t want to make this trip again...so I decided to go up to 8 power tubes. From the very first note, the Evo 400 had much better resolution...micro details. My previous amp was a Don Sachs Kootenay...and the DP just couldn’t cut it. The Evo 400, I can live with it. I may decide to upgrade the coupling caps after I break this amp in. But right now, there’s enough there there. My system: 2 dedicated audio lines>Technics 1200G>Audio Technica VM740ML>Project RS Phono Preamp>Don Sachs Model 2 Preamp>PrimaLuna Evo 400>Salk Songtowers |
The move to balanced outputs was purely borne from marketing. I could tell from past videos how frustrated Kevin was that many consumers simply need to see XLR connections to justify the purchase, regardless if they could ever tell the difference sonically. He's playing to the market and I don't blame him...he's a businessman, not an audio purist. |
Geez, I looked at the original thread date. Time marches on..... aolmrd1241- Are you a lucky new owner of EVO setup? Great loooking Akita. Massive! Grew up with Akitas in the early 70's. Only breed I would bother to have if I were a dog owner today. It's interesting to hear what other PL owners are reporting. As a long time user, I've heard the PL line in many different setups. What I hear is equipment that's able to support substantial source investments. I "get" anyone into the balanced cable thing from the gear enthusiast perspective. For my ears, other areas are my concern. PL sounds pretty convincing with either generic cable or Odin 2 unbalanced RCA's. |
Interesting post, aolmrd, because the 300 preamp and 400 should be the same, except no balanced section. I asked Upscale today if there is any difference between the balanced and unbalanced outs on the 400 and got two answers from two different people: negligible unless if everything from source to output is balanced, and probably little even then (Jared); and no, not unless the power and/or IC run is long (someone else). The latter is the same answer I got from Lampi when I asked about the difference between their balanced and unbalanced outs. |
I inquired about the sonic differences between the Dialogue Premium preamp and the new EVO 300 preamp...Upscale Audio’s response was as follows... "I wanted to write you about the EVO 300 and the Dialogue Premium..... Sonically, I don’t believe that you will hear the difference between them. The reason for the hike in price is the new model line and a few different components that are changed within. We feel it’s not worth the upgrade as you already have an amazing preamplifier in the Dialogue Premium ." <End quote> |
PrimaLuna at AXPONA, 12-14 April 2019Posted on 10/04/2019 by beheerder Shared by Upscale Audio. PrimaLuna’s new EVO Series of Tube Electronics will make its North American trade show debut next week at AXPONA, 12-14 April, at the Renaissance Schaumberg Hotel and Convention Center, Schaumberg, IL. PrimaLuna will unveil this innovative new product line in the Inspiration Room, on the main floor. Kevin Deal, President, and Anthony Chiarella, National Sales Manager, will be on hand to demonstrate the product and answer questions. It has been nearly a decade since PrimaLuna has introduced an entirely refreshed product line and PrimaLuna fans will find the new EVO series shares the previous line’s DNA. The new products feature upgraded transformers and internal components, improved aesthetics (rounded faceplate edges, Roll-Top tube cages on all models, etc) and an enhanced feature set including headphone amplifiers on all integrated amplifiers and true-balanced, transformer-coupled XLR inputs and outputs on upper-end models. Just as important is what hasn’t changed, including the meticulous hand-assembly, point-to-point wiring, superlative build quality and cutting-edge Adaptive Auto-Bias (TM) circuitry upon which PrimaLuna has built its reputation. |
Hey PL enthusiasts! I had a PL Dialogue Premium HP integrated with Focal Aria 948's for a while. The speakers didn't do it for me (i rolled lots of different tubes, but eventually could not overcome persistent brightness); Long story short, moved to Dynaudio Contour 60s, that are 4 ohm 87dB bad ass speakers that really come alive with top notch SS amps (I do think top notch tubes would also do it but that's a TON more to worry about and also more $$$); I am tossing around the idea of a Pass Labs X250.8 with a PL Evo 400 preamp. I understand that the way PL implements balanced signals is by transformers, totally cool, and the best way to drive Pass gear. I KNOW the amazingly musical and awesome potential sound from modern PL gear; Since this IS a thread about EVO stuff do you also see the synergistic potential here? Thanks!! |
I went through a 'hate em/love em' phase with the tubes.. at first, the KT150s gave me the punch that was missing with the EL34s... but I lost the holographic midrange. After a few dozen hours everything balanced out nicely; the midrange still isn't as lush as the EL34S, but its 85% there... with the added dynamics and bottom end that was missing. Kevin told me a few weeks ago, and I have seen, they really need some hours on them before you can judge. I also replaced the two main input tubes with Mullards and that was a huge improvement.... the only word of warning is 8 Kt150s is basically a space heater.. no joke. a LOT of heat comes off them. This is my bedroom system, and that may in the end be the deal breaker. |
For what its worth, I have the EVO400 Integrated; now running KT150s, and Mullard tubes on the two front; it’s glorious. Hey Rick Can you provide a bit more insight into what the KT150s sound like in the EVO 400 integrated? I tried the KT120s in my Dialogue Premium integrated and found them to be rather harsh and fatiguing, although they did produce more "punch" than the EL34s. Have you tried the KT120s, and if so, how do they compare to the KT150s? Oh, and I am very jealous that you live so close to Upscale. I live in Boston and the only thing I can say about our local hi-fi shops in New England is that they full of attitude and empty of substance. Thanks! TMQ |
I've had the Dialogue Premium integrated for over 5 years and have absolutely loved it. First tube amp I ever owned. I tried the KT120 tubes but eventually switched back to the EL34s, which just sound so damn good. I thought this was going to be my "forever amp", but I find myself wanting to be able to listen to headphones, and the lack of a line-out was occasionally annoying. So yesterday I called Kevin Deal and ordered an EVO 400 integrated. For the extra $$$ I'm getting about 2x more power (I think my PSB Synchrony Two speakers will appreciate that), a headphone jack and line-outs. I hope to have it by the weekend and I will post my first impressions. Cheers, TMQ |
curio - I could not be happier with the Evo 400 preamp. The 400 power amps as well. The choice of balanced / unbalanced inputs and outputs is great to have. The sound I’m getting is ultra-realistic and full bodied. I am using expensive power cables and interconnects, and I have applied my favourite tweeks to the PL chassis and connections (well documented by me in several of my recent posts). I’ve really pushed the limit as far as I can. The upshot is, the Prima Lunas are magnificent straight out of the box, and can easily be made significantly better if you are so inclined. I like that aspect. The build quality and the quality of components inside the amps are second to none. I really can’t imagine anyone being disappointed with the PrimaLuna level of quality and construction. I’m so glad I decided to go with the Evos - they are up there with the best I have ever heard, at a price that makes you wonder how some other brands can even survive against that kind of competition. Some may prefer built in the USA (but not for quality reasons, I venture to add). |
For what its worth, I have the EVO400 Integrated; now running KT150s, and Mullard tubes on the two front; it's glorious. I spent a few weeks with the stock EL34s; and their midrange and holographic presentation is undeniable, but I prefer the extra "oomph" of the big KT150s; I didn't realize I was adding a space heater to my room but se la vie. THIS is the sound I've been after for 40 years.. so beyond thrilled with the amp; also nice Im in SoCal so a trip to Upscale is only 45 min.. comparing to other amps its a no-brainer IMHO.. best bang for the buck in tube land. |
Hi all, I was going to purchase a pair of PL Dialogue HP Power Amps last year, but decided to put them off due to other priorities. I noted the new Evo ranges do not have those 8 tubes power amps anymore. Have anybody compared the Evo vs the Dialogue HP Power Amps? Any insider news as to why no 8 tubes power Evo range? Also, can you mix/match with the previous generation of Dialogue Premium Pre-amp, with the Evo power amps? |
Any news from
whostolethebatmobile about the new Primaluna Evo 400 preamp? |
On paper these don't seem to have major improvements over the Dialogue series. However, the price sure went up. I'm wondering if by creating a new model they also get a new round of reviews in the HiFi media, which is the lifeblood for sales. If they just increased the price of the Dialogue you get negative press. However, if you create a new model, make a couple improvements, you can justify a price increase and get a round of new favorable reviews. I'm saying this as a big fan of Primaluna and owner of a Dialogue One integrated. Curious to hear from people who upgrade from the Dialogue to the Evo and what they find. I'm sure it's going to sound great, but worth that price increase? |
The Prima Lunas (and I'm sure the Etna has more than a little to do with it) are exposing extremly subtle details in my favourite recordings. In one track that I've played hundreds of times in the past, there is tremolo on the rhythm guitar that I could not hear before. Extremely subtle, shimmering dynamics now fully revealed which were previously lost in the haze. The PL Evos are very seriously good. I'm comparing to my previous Audio Research gear (D250, VT100, SP10). In comparison, the PrimaLunas get right out of the way and you're generally listening to the source, and forgetting the amps. |
I am just using the stock tubes that come with the Evo 400 preamps and amps. I have not noticed any sibilance, but I will keep your advice in mind if I do notice any. I would love to hear the PL amps with better wire from the transformers to the power tubes. Now that would be one way PL could make a massive improvement in sound quality. In fact, it's the only way I can imagine these beautiful sounding amps being greatly improved. Van den Hul SCS-12 wire (or SCS-16 at a pinch) would do the trick! Please PrimaLuna? |
Great to hear your feedback. I am burning in some Phillips rectifier tubes right now on my PL preamp. What tubes are you running? I had some slight sibilance going on ceratain recordings and the rectifier change seems to have eliminated it. Perhaps, the Evo preamp doesn’t have the issue with the stock tubes. I am interested in going with another Evo amp to take advantage of the amps mono capabilities but one step at a time. |
Huge Thumbs up to the PrimaLuna Evo 400 amps and Evo 400 preamp. I wish I could give a comparison review with the earlier models, but I never owned or heard PL gear until now. The PL amps seemingly have nothing lacking even with only 100 hours burn-in. I tested the Hana ML cartridge against the Lyra Etna SL, and the PrimaLunas let me hear instantly the differences between those cartridges. The Hana ML sounds spremely balanced at all frequencies and has amazing dynamic slam. But the Etna matches those qualities and adds unbelievable low level detail retrieval. I truly believe lesser amps woud not have allowed me to hear that additional low level detail. They are stunning amps, and for the price I'm more than satisfied. Instead of rambling on, I'll offer to try to answer any questions if anyone has any. Equipment used - Kuzma Stabi M tt, Kuzma 4-point 9 tonearm, Lyra Etna mono and stereo cartridges, Hana ML cartridge, Moon 810LP phono stage, 2 x PL Evo 400 used as monoblocks, PL Evo 400 preamp, 9 x Synergistic Research Galileo SX power cables, SR PowerCell 12 UEF SE, SR Active Ground Block, SR Gallileo SX interconnects and speaker cable, Martin Logan CLX speakers, JL Audio Gotham sub, Furutech SK-Filter. |
"Congrats on the Evos. I just ordered a Pl Dialogue Premium Pre and a Evo 400 amp." I am eyeing a dialogue premium preamp too. I do not see anything in there justifying a 50% jump in price between the dialogue premium preamp to the 400 EVO. I have a dialogue premium HP amp at the moment and it cannot use balanced input. I guess I will take a page from Kevin Deal's book and look what is inside..... and, for what I know now go for the dialogue. |
Wonder if the output transformer has better stability in this new one. As the old one didn't, looking at the peaking FR and overshoot on the SW. Can't tell till a bench test is done, or some start saying it's a touch sibilant on extended tweeters. https://www.stereophile.com/images/1214PLDPIfig01.jpg https://www.stereophile.com/images/1214PLDPIfig03.jpg Cheers George |
"Maybe I missed it but what is new and improved? Been eyeing the Dialogue HP integrated which is now the Evo 400 integrated for quite some time." Things I could find: - Stereo Sub/ Variable Out - Tape Out - Weighs 2 more pounds - Mundorf Mcap EVO Silvergold Capacitors - They also now spec out the headphone power, but I kind of doubt that has changed. - 93 S/N vs previously 92 - Frequency Response is also slightly tweaked All in all I think these should be similar enough that it’s worth jumping on the Dialogue HP while you still can. Seems like some new branding, new capacitors, and an incremental price increase. I’m sure it was probably time for a price increase, and it’s easier to position it as a new model vs pricing going up on an older model. |
Congrats on the Evos. I just ordered a Pl Dialogue Premium Pre and a Evo 400 amp. I am upgrading to separates from a HP Integrated. I hope I don’t regret not getting an Evo pre, but I The cost savings of the previous generation led me to the Dialogue. I went with the Evo Amp since I will likely add another one in the future for a mono set up. My understanding are the transformers are slightly improved on the new amps, so I wanted to make sure I would have a match when going monoblocks. They’ll be hear Friday. Can’t wat. |
Thanks tuberist. I'm glad to hear you are pleased with the PL Dialogue. I imagine the new Evo will sound like a very close relative, since there's not much different under the hood. tablejockey - The speakers are Martin Logan CLX electrostatics, and the powered sub is a JL Audio Gotham. I have owned them since about 2010, and they are a great match. I don't need to use a crossover at all, I just feed the sub and CLXs direct from the Audio Research Ref. 2 which has 2 pairs of XLR outputs. That's why I don't use the Coincident line stage preamp, because it only has one pair of XLR outputs, and my best cables are all XLR. I don't use the Coincident phono stage because I like to use unshielded cable from the tonearm, and the Coincident can't handle that, being all tube. So I now use the Moon 810 LP solid state phono preamp which is on the maple block. Everything is fitted with Ayra Revopod isolation feet. |
I have the PL Dialogue integrated. I like the looks (I don't use the cage) It is without doubt the best tube rig I've ever owned and I've owned some costly gear that was finicky and didn't respond to tube rolling nearly as well. I'm running the Tung-Sol 7581a for my power tubes after living with the GoldLion KT77's which I thought were spectacular. So, I'm glad I didn't have to pony up another $600 for a headphone jack (which I didn't want). I don't care for "triode mode" since it makes the soundstage recessed to my ears and I don't hear any meaningful extra detail. Hope you have fun with your new gear Batmobile. |
Thanks again tablejockey. I hope the new system will make great mono and stereo transfers when it's set up properly. Currently I can only do mono transfers, which is ok because a lot of my records are mono. I deleted my comments about Mapleshade because they strayed too far off topic. in another thread I could describe my method for improving the maple slabs. I'm sure the PrimaLuna Evo gear will sound fantastic. I will share my findings with you, within 2 weeks if all goes well. |
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"I know what you mean about the looks, especially the rounded cage." If anything, PL should have reshaped the transformer cover, to compliment the tube cage. I don’t know what that would look like, but it"s the same cover used since the line it was introduced. whostole- If you ever try the KT 150’s, the cage won’t fit anyway. Your digital transfer rig is top notch. I bet that’s digital playback that sounds organic like a record. Your stats are gonna sing. I like the Mapleshade rack. I have slabs under the table and sub. I don’t know if they really do what Mapleshade claims, but it works aesthetically. Looks like Christmas at your house Edit- My room is similar- wood floor windows on the sidewall. My setup sounds "too hot" without room treatment. Strategic damping really tamed the brightness. |
I know what you mean about the looks, especially the rounded cage. However once you see it and feel it in real life, you kind of get a new perspective and respect for the look and feel. It's incredibly heavy for its size, and the finish is very luxurious to the touch. I've come round to it and find it aesthetically very pleasing overall. |
On the preamp,the only noticeable change in appearance is the faceplate now has a rounded beveled edge and the selector knob wording shows auxiliary instead of a separately named source input.. I would have preferred an all black colored case instead of the blue.. Also,a lighted indicator position on the volume control knob would have been nice for dark room listening sessions. |
Here's a nice shot of the silver Evo 400 power amp, and one of the black Evo 400 preamp, showing the exterior finishes. I guess these are similar to the older PrimaLuna amps, though I have not seen them. http://www.g45central.com/posts/PrimaLuna/PL22.jpg http://www.g45central.com/posts/PrimaLuna/PL16.jpg |
"You’re gonna have a rockin system, assuming their hooked up to some equally competent speakers. " Thank you tablejockey. I have some excellent speakers shown below which should make evaluating the P/L Evo amps easy enough. In the picture you will see a black and a silver P/L Evo 400. The distributor only had one of each but he will swap to all silver faceplates when more stock arrives. Same with Evo 400 preamp. The equipment I’m waiting for is a Kuzma Stabi M turntable, Thales Statement arm, Lyra Etna SL cartridge and all Synergistic Research Galileo SX power cables, interconnects and speaker cables as well as PowerCell 12 UEF SE and Active grounding block. So there should be nothing holding the Evos back, hopefully. My main interest is making vinyl transfers to digital, which explains the heavy emphasis on turntable and phono stages rather than power amps etc. I went with PrimaLuna because of the build quality and value for money. I’m very happy about the XLR inputs on the new Evo gear. I also have Nordost Odin XLR interconnects which I will be able to use now. http://www.g45central.com/posts/PrimaLuna1.jpg http://www.g45central.com/posts/PrimaLuna2.jpg |
