Preamp Deal of the Century

Got my Chardonnay today. Can't stop listening to my system. This thing is sweeeet... made my soundstage just grow well beyond my speakers by leaps... Never new how 3D my Sim Audio W5 was. And the clarity and imaging, incredible. Some of the descriptions I read on this thread by some folks about how good this thing was made me a bit skeptical but I thought I would take a chance. Man, am I glad I did. This is far and away one of the best upgrades to my system I have ever made.

Welcome Arkio!

It will just get better, and better, and better, and better.........

congrats!

Mick can build now the Cabernet to be used with PX4 or 300B, with a switch on power supply to chooose which one you want to use.
It´s possible to use other tubes in place PX4 or 300B as long as they don't use more than 1.5A of filament current.
Anyone could let me know what other tubes could be used in the Cabernet besides the PX4 or 300B?

When I asked in the previous post what tubes can be used in the Cabernet "besides" PX4 or 300B I wanted to say "in place" the PX4 or 300B providing they don´t use more than 1,5 A of filament current. Thanks.

Hi Jpms.Both the PX4 and the 300b are direcly heated triodes with a ux4 or b4 pin out. Tubes that may be possible substitutions are the px25,2a3 and the 45. All are directly heated triodes traditionally used as an output tube in single ended amplifiers. You would certainly want to consult with Mick regarding substitutions here as all of these tubes are very rare and expensive. The 45 in particular is probably the most linear valve of the bunch and probably better sounding than the others. I have heard all of them as output tubes in amplifiers and they all possess a magic that most tubes only hint at. Very Intriguing indeed. Hope you post your findings here. cheers

How much better is the Cabernet compared to the Sauvignon? Or is the Chardonay good enough? If my memory is correct, Bwhite was a bit disappointed with the cortese when compared to his syrah. Is it worth the extra money?
Comments would be appreciated.

Hi Thf,

Sonically they are very similar but the Cortese is more refined, precise and has better bass extension. The highs are more controlled and sweeter with the Cortese. The tonal balance of the mids is difficult to distinguish between the two preamps.

Overall both preamps have the same family sound but in an effort to describe the subtle differences with words I will undoubtedly create a scenario which is more exaggerated than is true. Ready for an exaggeration?? Here it goes!!The Syrah sounds more immature - like a rambunctious child compared to a more mature, strict and disciplined Cortese.

Done exaggerating.

This type of improvement is typical in high end audio when upgrading any component within the same manufacturers line.

Unfortunately the area where there is the most significant improvement between the Cortese and the Syrah is in the overall quality of the unit.

For whatever reason, the Cortese has zero microphonics, zero hum and/or buzz. The Cortese is not as sensitive to tube quality and less sensitive to where its power supply is located. The Cortese does not rattle or vibrate internally - it's heavy and solid - like it should be.

The Cortese seems like a better perfected high-end component whereas the Syrah, to some degree feels like a high-end "DIY" type of component.

Awesome results can be achieved with the Syrah but its subtle quirks can overtly effect the sonics if extra care is not taken in tube selection, positioning / location of the power supply, relation of the preamp to other components, etc.

Is it worth the extra money? I think so.

Good to hear from your Brian, it has been a while since I have seen you on here.

Tom

Thanks Tom! It's good to be back! The past several months have been very hectic. Now it looks as if I'll be moving from California to Charlotte, North Carolina within the next month or two...so it's not over yet. I'll do my best keep up to speed with everyone on this thread as things progress.

When is your Cortese due to arrive?

Thanks, Bwhite for your comments. Do you have any experience with the Cabernet? Would you buy it? How does it compare with the cortese?

Hey Bryon. Yeah, good to hear you again.Hoping things are well for you and your family and all the best on your move.

Don't know when my Cortese will be ready. I ordered it at the end of October. I don't want to bug Mick about it though. As long as I have my Syrah to listen to, I am happy.
Does anyone know if Mick still puts tape inputs on the preamps? Seems like most people have HT inputs nowdays. I have never used the tape inputs on my Syrah.

Hi Bwhite, I just ordered a Cabernet from Mick, on reputation only. Have you seen or heard one? I have not been able to get much information anywhere on the Cabernet and would love for someone to tell me I made a great choice!

Thf & Larryrosen - Sorry, I don't have any experience with the Cabernet but would expect it to outperform the Cortese (Sauvignon) line stage particularly due to a better / more refined power supply. I've read good things about the new PX4 tube version and also heard there is a 300B option for the preamp which should sound fantastic!

One of the BIG benefits I'd expect to find in the Cabernet is the use of four regulator tubes in the power supply. I'd imagine this would give tremendous flexibility to tweaking the sound of the unit. For example, we Syrah/Chardonnay and Cortese/Sauvignon users only get two power supply regulator tubes to play with. These tubes impact the sound tremendously! Many (like I) have settled on the Western Electric 350B as the best tube but....in my view, there is something to be said for the Genalex KT66 also. The 350B is powerful and seemingly very accurate sounding but can be a bit harsh if the music calls for it. Sometimes accuracy (and associated harshness) can diminish from the overall enjoyment of listening. The Genalex Gold Lion KT66 on the other hand is a bit more rounded and seductive - something about it sucks a listener in to the music - very, very involving. In my mind, the best setup would be a combination of these tubes vs. one or the other.

I find I listen less often with the 350B's while with the KT66's, I find myself engaged for long periods of time all the while realizing that what I hear may not be exactly faithful to the original recording. Something tells me the 350B/KT66 combo in a Cabernet or Grange would be heaven sent! That alone would make the Cabernet a great choice!

Personally I am thinking of asking Mick to make me a Cabernet/Grange power supply for my Cortese.... or even a "dual mono" power supply!

Thanks! I am new to tube rolling and on his web site, Mick discourages it. How much improvement over the stock tubes could I expect?

Ecclectique - thank you very much. I'm actually looking forward to the move to Charlotte. The difference in cost of living should afford me a great listening space!

Hello Larry. Congratulations on your new Supratek. I can appreciate Mick's take on tube rolling as many users with little or no experience with vacuum tubes can mess things up very easily with the use of improper substitutes,weak, tired or bad tubes and such.All the Supratek preamps are very precision instruments and designed with the tubes employed to operate within the specific voltages, tolerances and parameters of the tubes used in his circuit. That said: The supratek preamps are rather sensitive to the quality of the tubes used in the circuit and will certainly respond to a specific tubes sonic signature to "voice" the preamp in your system. I know the thread here is an extremely long one to read back through Larry but it would be in your best interest to browse back for references as many tubes will elevate the bar to a whole higher level than the stock tubes supplied with the preamp. You may want to type in my handle or Bwhites to reference our observations.Hope this helps.

Fantastic. Thank you. I think I may a couple of months to research!

A few revelations happened today... I got a new cartridge to replace my Shelter 901. I settled on the Benz LP Ebony because Judith Spotheim, the maker of my turntable & arm, OEM's the cartridge and highly recommends it as a great match - plus George Cardas and Jeff Joseph also use a Benz(ish) cartridge on their La Luce tables. Anyhow, the Benz requires a >500 input impedance and to my knowledge, the Supratek's come with a 10, 100, 1000 and 47K input switch.

Has anyone here changed the impedance input switch on their Supratek? What's involved?

Revelation number two. With the Benz, I no longer think the KT66's are a very good tube in the regulator. The 350B's are definately better now. No question. And involving too! Very, very nice!

Bwhite, I see you are heavily into vinyl. Could you comment on how the Cortese phono stage might compare with other elite stages? Also, could you share any experiences between the Cortese and Chenin in particular the phono stages? As you can tell .. I am sitting on the fence at this point.

.
Brian,
.
It is great to hear you sound so happy with your system. I agree that the 350B is the end of the path and as good as it gets.
.
When you are in the mood and in a position, try to get a listen to a ZYX UNIverse. It is just stunning beyond explanation. The Ebony is a terrific cartridge, but the UNIverse is just Manna from Heaven.
.
Rgds,
Larry
.

Hi Larry, I thought about trying the UNIverse and discussed with SORAsound but...I was scared it was going to be too bright. Especially after hearing a Koetsu Onyx Platinum. My table is a bit forward sounding in the upper mids & this is apparently why the Benz is the cartridge of choice for the table.

Heck.. I may still try the UNIverse

Pkaram, the best phono stage I've listened to was my Aesthetix IO Signature DIRECT to an amp... WITHOUT ANY VOLUME CONTRL IN BETWEEN. It was insane! I set the jumpers to 60db gain and let her rip!

The purity of the sound was remarkable but the experience left me very confused.

I compared an Aesthetix direct vs. Aesthetix through a Supratek Chardonnay & it was amazing to hear how much the Supratek tarnished the sound. Sorry to say.

So I tried a passive Placette and it was even worse...it sounded like garbage to be honest. Compressed, ZERO dynamics, flat, dull and lifeless.

The Supratek was definitely better than the Placette for whatever reason.

I ended up selling the Aesthetix because I couldn't find a volume control which satisfied me. Even the Aesthetix built in volume control compressed dynamics to some extent.

That's when I purchased a Cortese and I've been using it ever since. One day I'm going to take the Cortese to an engineer and have the DACT volume control as well as a few other "streamlining" mods completed. Hopefully that will kick up the purity of the Cortese.

But.. to this day, nothing compares to the Aesthetix direct. What an experience!

Brian,

You will be shocked after you get about 50-75 hours on the DACT. The transparency will take a huge leap. But with that comes the downside...exposing weaknesses elsewhere if you have any.

And I agree. After trying GEC KT66's about a month (I think) after receiving my Chardonnay, I made the leap immediately to WE 350B's. No comparison. I know they are expensive, but if you can't run with the big dogs, ya may as well stay on the porch.

Arkio - Ditto on mating Supratek preamps with the Sim Audio Moon W5. It is an excellent match with both my Sauvignon and Cabernet. I wish you many enjoyable hours of listening.

Ecclectique - I think Mick uses the TJ-PX4 in the latest iteration of the cabernet. It uses UX-4 sockets instead of B4 sockets that the 'real' PX4 uses. That is a very important consideration for anyone wanting to purchase the Cabernet and tube roll the NOS PX4's in it, cause it isn't going to happen. The sockets are incompatible.

Jazzdude. Now that makes more sense. I thought that he must be using both socket types on the same chassis with a switch.

Thf - I have both Sauvignon and Cabernet. The Sauvignon is very good, nothing wrong with it at all. The Cabernet just conveys the essence of the music so much better than the Sauvignon. Speed, neuance, tone, and dynamic contrasts are all better in the Cabernet. The only downside of the Cabernet might be that you hear a tad more tube noise, but it is still very quiet. It has the same Supratek 'house' sound, detailed and transparent but not sacrificing musicality. On my cabernet tonal balance is notably fuller than the Sauvignon but not fat.

As bwhite said the Chardonnay sounds immature and the Sauvignon sounds disiplined. Comparitively speaking the Sauvignon sounds like a recording and the Cabernet sounds alive and vibrant.

Confirm my assisment with Mick becuase he changes his design and tube compliment evolve slightly as time goes on. My Sauvignon is one of the earlier models and my Cabernet uses the WE101D instead of the TJ101D or TJPX4.

Before the cabernet I used to haunt audio websites and high-end boutiques like I was a restless ghost because I was always looking for something better. Not anymore, I am enjoying the music.

Bwhite, the Cabernet only uses two regulators because it´s only a line pre. The Grange uses two pair of regulators one for the line and the other pair for phono wich is housed in a seperate unit and this way it does benefit from having it's own regulation. There are two preamps in effect in the Grange- the phono and linestage.
The Cabernet just has a linestage so it can only have two regulator tubes- one for each channel.
Mick told me that putting a Cabernet/Grange power supply on a Cortese wouldn't work because they have completely different requirements.

Jazzdude, thanks
It does keep getting better and better as Amandarae mentioned. I used to run my Wadia straight into my W5 with outstanding results. I was thinking could not get much better than this....Wrong. Just opened up a whole new dimension to sound. Can't wait to start tweaking now.

Good listening.

Mick told me that the newest Cortese also has two pair of regulators, one for the line and one for the phono stage. He is also direct coupling the tube phono stage eliminating all coupling capacitors for a much more 3D image.

Anyone out there recieve their package recently? I ordered a Cabernet last week, but cannot get Mick to commit to a time frame. How long as he been taking to deliver? Also, when can I expect to hear from him concerning any custom mods I would request? Just very curious and anxious for any info I can get. I am up to date on this thread and it is the reason I bought a Cabernet. Thanks everyone for making this feel like a special club!

Hi Fiddler - Modifying a Supratek?? I am sure the DACT will bring a big improvement over the stock potentiometer. I'm not sure why I haven't done this yet.

The "streamlining" mods I am thinking about include:

> Bypassing the MUTE switch. - To my knowledge, all signals run through this switch. This will be one less item in the signal path which should improve transparency.

> Removing the extra wire from unused inputs - since the wire used inside a Supratek is unsheilded it tends to pick up radio frequency & adds to crosstalk problems which could degrade transparency.

> Removing the balanced output and associated switch - again I think all signals run through this switch. I don't use balanced output and the preamp makes a nasty buzz sound when the balanced output or in-between setting is selected - something wrong is going on there.

> Replacing selector knob with a DACT selector - I expect the stock selector knob is not as transparent as we'd like.

> Taking a closer look at the HT Bypass and improving on the design a little - again, all signals run through this switch and it could degrade transparency.

> Rewiring the signal path with different wire (Kondo or Siltech)

Jpms - thanks for the info on the Cab, I didn't know what. From Slowhands post, it seems that the Cortese now has two regulators. That might be a good thing. Wonder if I can get my Cortese upgraded...

Larryrosen, I received an email reply from Mick at 1:23 AM Pacific... So I know he's there.

When ordering a Supratek, it's always best to iron out the details associated with your particular needs prior sealing the deal. When requesting a price quote on a non standard unit, itemize ALL special requirements in one email. This provides the necessary documentation Mick needs to refresh his memory once he starts building your preamp.

Thanks will send one off today.

Larryrosen
I ordered a custom Grange in early December and it appears I'm still 4-6 weeks if not more. I wouldn't have expected Mick's commitment to a firm date anyway knowing that he wears almost every hat in the company. I accepted that when I sent him my down payment. He always returns emails although it may be a day or two until you hear back. As a former president once said "I feel your pain". :>)

Thanks Mustang. You are right, he does answer e-mails, and I sent him one this afternoon.

Hi Jazzdude,

Thanks for your effort. It certainly was informative and will help me in my selection of a preamp.

Received my NOS tubes the other day...
Tried them out on my Chardonnay this morning but ran into noise problem with the 6F6G.
Appreciate if anyone could offer some help/explanation.
I have also sent an email to our tube guru (Ecclectique).

First, these are the NOS tubes I am using:
- Bendix 6101
- Sylvania JAN CHS 6SN7WGT (3080/3430 uMHOS, 3255/3115 uMHOS)
- Brima 6F6G (black round plates; perfect matching pairs @ 3080 uMHOS)

I first replaced all the stock tubes with these NOS tubes, set gain switch at the back of the preamp to the 1st position (my preference is the 3rd position), volume set to zero, and turned on the power amp last. Quiet. Waited for a minute. Still quiet.
Popped in a CD and noticed immediately improvements in imaging and dynamics.
Half way through the first song, I increased the gain by switching to the 2nd position. Sounded better. Still quiet. When the song ended, I switched to the 3rd position. After about 20 seconds, there were soft popping sound coming from the speakers and it grew louder... they sounded like fireworks... pi pop pi pop pop pi pop). I immediately switched back to the 2nd position and the noise was gone!

Next I swapped out the NOS tubes with the stock tubes, one by one until I found out which tubes were giving problems. To my surprise, it was the Brima 6F6G! I thought it would be the 6SN7. Thinking that I could still enjoy music through the new tubes, I switched to the 2nd position. Unfortunately, this time around there was that same sort of noise, even at the 1st and 2nd positions.

I don't recall anyone in this thread having problems with their 6F6G.
Is the noise I am experiencing microphonics? Is there a workaround or way to eliminate this problem? Is it possible the tubes are faulty?
Why was it okay at first when switch was at the 2nd position?

Would appreciate very much if anyone could offer some pointers what I should do next.
Thanks in advance

Ethifi,

In my experienced, the problem you described should come from the Bendix 6101. I had the Bendix beforehand when I received my preamp and found out the same anomaly as you pointed out. As you increased the gain, the popping (like a motorcycle idling) and tube rush sound increases in proportionality.

The Syrah can use the Bendix, but the Chenin (as Mick told me long ago) cannot due to a small change in the PSU. Maybe the new Chardonnay incorporate this change also.

goodluck

When I wrote about the problem, the stock regulators were already back in place and there was no noise, even at maximum gain. Current setup (no noise): NOS rectifier, stock regulators, NOS 6SN7.
I also experienced no noise with this config: NOS rectifier, stock regulators, stock 6SN7. I have tried all combinations. Conclusion: as long as the NOS 6F6G are used, there was popping noise.

Ethifi, I was using a Syrah before and now I am having a Chenin. I found no problem with Bendix, GZ32 and GZ34 with Syrah but for the Chenin, only GZ34 can be used. I was probably the first or second guy to own a Chenin and the first guy to realise this noise problem. I even shipped the whole unit back to Mick for inspection. I am using Sylvania 6F6G but there is no such problem found. I would suggest you to try out a pair of Sylvania 6F6G and see how it goes.

Eddy

Ethifi - Sounds to me like you need some new 6F6G's. I'm not sure what the "Brima" brand is... Did you mean Brimar?

Tubeworld has a good selection of NOS 6F6G's. They may cost a bit more than you'd pay on Ebay but you'll be taken care of should you have problems with a particular tube.

Tubeworlds tube list is at:
http://www.tubeworld.com/tubes.html

Also.. what is this 3 way gain switch you're talking about?
I've only seen low/high gain switches on Chardonnay's. Is this a new "feature"?

Hi Bwhite

Yes, these are the Brimar (typo mistake) and they are NOS from TubeDepot (perfectly matching pair @3080 uMHOS according to TubeDepot). My Chardonnay has low/high gain switches on the top panel and 6-position switch at the rear panel. The rear switch varies the load on the output transformer. I use the high-gain position on the top panel switch and the 3rd position on the transformer load selector. I am not sure whether the rear switch is a new feature. I have written to Mick and am waiting for his reply.

Ethifi,

It is not a new feature. My Chardonnay is exactly the same.

Ethifi,

I need to qualify my last post.

I have the hi/lo gain switches on each channel inside my preamp, not on top. But I have the 6 position selector switch on the back like yours.

The only difference is that Mick apparently went to one external hi/lo switch instead of two internal switches. That would be much more convenient.

Andy of Vintage Tube Services just picked up a load of Sylvania 6F6Gs Last week...

Some updates... this time from Mick. He wrote:
"... you should be able to use 6F6G no problem. The thing is that 6F6G are at least 50 years old and there is no gaurantee that the tubes are as new - most tube testing is very vauge to say the least, and you have to be extremely lucky to get 2 perfectly matched tubes, despite what the sellers promise. There is a huge amount of hype involved with tube dealers. Quite likely it's faulty tubes. I'd send them back."
I have written to TubeDepot to see what they can do.

Ethifi & Fiddler, thanks for the info - I didn't know there were multiple gain switches on the newer Chardonnay's.