Point of higher priced streamer?
“I have decided to buy a Chromecast Audio (CA), which although discontinued, it can be still be found in e-bay for a whopping $50. According to numerous sites if connected via optical to a "decent" high performing DAC (e.g. Topping D50), it will outperform many higher-priced streamers and it will be hard to beat, at least from the performance measuring perspective.” I never laughed so hard in my life 😆 |
A few years ago I held on to the same belief that streamers don't make a difference. I lived with an Apple TV, and later, Chromecast Audio for almost 3 years. The music did not sound bad, but there was an obvious digital glare and fatigue. I just didn't know what I was missing. It was only when I moved up to Bluesound Node 2i, and later on Sonore Optical Rendu, that I realized what was missing. The biggest improvement, at least in my system, was the reduction in floor noise and an overall 'musicality' that was missing earlier. So in short, NO, the Chromecast Audio is not on par with higher priced streamers. Not even close! |
I have used a Chromecast Audio feeding a Benchmark DAC2 and the noise floor was dead silent, as I would expect with any optical connection to be. That said, I was using ROON, and I have no idea what you were using. Unless your sofware was ensuring bit-perfect output, you may have been feeding the Chromecast a very poor signal. The biggest issue is optical out can limit you, but the Benchmark handles jitter quite well which is not universal. Thought the Bluesound Node2i was broken till I discovered the audio clock trim setting and turned it off. |
Using Roon and a good DAC, they used the Topping D50 the chromecast was fine. 3. The Chromecast output has more jitter than an audiophile/instrument grade Toslink output. This is evident when used with low quality DACs like Schiit Modi 2 Uber.I know it’s hard for some to believe but price of components is not an indicator of good digital playback. |
That’s not what he said. Read it again, he said (verbatim): “ if connected via optical to a "decent" high performing DAC (e.g. Topping D50), it will outperform many higher-priced streamers” I understand the usual rhetoric of your kin “everything sounds the same / no impact in SQ / no difference “, but saying “it OUTPERFORMS” many higher-priced streamers”, it is a bit of stretch. Based on what? On that ASR link? Or his own experience? And, if a Topping D50 is “decent”, “well-designed”, “competent”, “high-performing”, then pretty much EVERY standalone DAC in the universe is such. But then again, this says nothing, as your only “contribution” in this site is about the virtues of a $2 (two American dollars) DAC 🎄🎈🎆😂 |
I have lived with Apple TV, Chromecast, Node 2i, and Sonore Optical Rendu for many years. Still own all four. And I've gotten to know all four pieces of equipment over a much longer period of time, instead of rushed A/B comparisons. My source is also Roon, and Chromecast is nowhere near the quality of Sonore or Node 2i. Period. I guess it's hard for some to believe that staring at measurement graphs is not a good indictor of digital playback. As I've said before, there is no compression algorithm for actual listening. |
I've never used the Chromecast the cheapest I have is a raspberry pi4. As a roon endpoint it's indistinguishable from streamers I've had costing a lot more. I actually listen, with my ears, not my eyes. If your experience is not listening blind then it's flawed and useless except as a control for why we need to listen blind. Measurements are good to get a basic idea, I've never chosen a component based on measurements alone. |
LOL!!! This is very funny. I totally missed this part. Hilarious! Especially if “backed” by the world famous & renowned ASR. How do you know? Or you just KNOW? Please read the results of the ASR tests of Roon's implementation of Chromecast Audio (CA) streaming, which are backed by actual experimental data. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-chromecast-aud...Perhaps you don't understand the plots. Here are the conclusions: “1. The CAST audio functionality of Google Chrome is horrid. There is no excuse for it to be butchering even simple 16-bit signals as it did. While audibly it is not as dire as it looks, I still would avoid it if you can. By the way, there are multiple other sources that praise the CA as an excellent device for getting into streaming, for example, http://https//www.whathifi.com/us/google/chromecast-audio/review and specifically as a Roon streamer, for example: http://https//community.roonlabs.com/t/chromecast-audio-sound-quality/45972 Forgive me for paying more attention to actual experimental data than to hearsay opinions, no matter how many LOLs expressions are used to stress these opinions. Paying $50 bucks to try out whether I like Roon or not, instead of spending several hundreds of dollars on other streamers with doubtful performance improvements over the CA, such as the SOtM SMS-200 and the Sonore microRendu Streamers, makes perfect sense to me. If you look at the J-tests for both the the SOtM SMS-200 and the Sonore microRendu Streamers, which are considerably more expensive than the CA, you can see that their noise performance degrades considerably if you use them with their stock switching power supplies. |
Apple only supports 44.1/16 max for music and what I remember, the earlier ones (and I think the one you were using is quite old) resampled everything to 48KHz with questionable math accuracy. No mention in your posts of actually using a Chromecast, just some interest in it, but the DACs you have listed using I don't remember being well known for jitter reduction. Chromecast had high jitter on optical out and optical is more jittery in general. I believe you just discovered recently a setting in the Node2i that fixes a known issue (I had same problem) and you use it in your headphone system, so have you truly done a 1:1 level matched comparison? When people say they have "compared" things, there is more than going off memory. You need to actually do a 1:1 level comparison somewhat coincident in time. Most of your comparative examples are "troubled" and are you using your new unit in USB mode? |
LOL!! Actual facts? He just ordered it. He does not own it yet. So let me understand this, he said the below based on some writing on the Internets, with no actual hands on experience whatsoever of either Chromecast Audio, or “High Priced Streamers”? ——— if connected via optical to a "decent" high performing DAC (e.g. Topping D50), it will outperform many higher-priced streamers ——- Holy crap AtDavid! And you hold yourself as the The Special One around here |
@thyname, Maybe you should actually try reading some time instead of this bizarre obsession you have with me (and others it seems). You really need to get out of that little row house and out the country more and get some air. Did you actually follow this link? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/ The MicroRendu with the iFi power supply is an absolute disaster. Truly horrible. Hard to imagine how poor the design is to result in that poor of result. And here you are defending it @thyname. There is no need to hear a Microrendu with the iFi power supply personally to recognize that is really bad. If someone defends that result, one can only assume they are more interested in defending dogma than in audio. @rhg88 just provided the links. What he has or does not have in no way negates that the MicroRendu with the iFi power supply is a seriously flawed implementation. |
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Lol! this thread is continuing to get funnier by the post. Here's someone who has 'actually' owned and listened to chromecast and compared it with other streamers, but guys who have only read reviews and looked at measurements continue to insist that actual listening experience does not matter. Have at it! |
As I said, be a man, and meet me face to face. Let’s solve this once and for all like real people and not like dysfunctional keyboard warrior. You called me with my real life name four of your usernames ago, and today you just told me you know where I live. So, don’t be a creepy whimper, show me your face, and let’s meet in person. |
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Keyboard type? Look in the mirror. You have here over 10,000 posts under five usernames. In just over one year. Who is the keyboard warrior? One day, I will find out who you really are. I am very close. I have a very good idea based on your activity here, and in Facebook groups. Even if they ban this username, pretty sure you will come back here, it will be easy to spot. I promise you will have a “blast” when we meet. |
@thyname1,055 posts So @rhg you fully understand those plots, but you still don’t own any streamer (just ordered a CCA from eBay), and any DAC? Hmmmm....Here I quote a post from https://community.roonlabs.com/t/chromecast-audio-sound-quality/45972/41 who reports on an actual a/b listening comparison between a Chromecast Audio with Toslink, MicroRendu and USB direct from Nucleus into a Hugo 2. It seems to support AS's assertion that "Using a well-designed Dac like the Topping D50, there is no difference at all between Toslink from Chromecast or higher fidelity sources. All the jitter is filtered out resulting in the performance of the DAC itself being the limit." Ok, I did the comparison. I found no differences with 96k content or with 44k content. One caveat: I did notice a bit of harshness on an EST track — the piano is a bit harsh and jangly on the beginning of Dodge the Dodo, obviously intentional because it is perfectly smooth at other points in the track, but I thought the CC made it extra harsh. Which might indicate that it has trouble with the complex high frequency tones of an abused piano. I could investigate more. And I never noticed it elsewhere. But note that I did hear differences yesterday with the Bel Canto DAC 3, which is a fairly old device (about 2010, I guess). So this supports my standard theory that the importance of the quality of a producer depends on the sensitivity of the consumer, and the Hugo 2 is very new and brilliant..." Also, please note that my purchase of the CA is primarily intended to test whether I will like the features of Roon and to allow me to use Roon in the meantime on whatever DAC/streamer system I finally decide to purchase/audition, since many new devices are not yet Roon certified. BTW, can you please tone down the volume of insults and denigrations? |
@rhg88, Much of the criticism comes from following statement you’ve posted without even having the opportunity to actually listen the CC and any comparison with high priced streamers in your own system, “it will outperform many higher-priced streamers and it will be hard to beat, at least from the performance measuring perspective.” Good luck with your journey into digital. “Music that doesn’t stir emotions is just Noise” |
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Hey @clifffff : to answer your question: since the chi-fi peddlers and paid advertisers started flooding ALL audio forums, posting under the disguise of science and “scientific measurements”. In the name of science. Objective is clear: bury the domestic audio industry to the ground, until every single person buys a chi-fi device. Just look at the attack in the name of measurements to low cost US based manufacturers like Schiit Audio. After all, it’s really cheap to hire dime a dozen trolls from the troll factory. So when Audio2Design posts a bazillion of posts here (and over 10,000 posts previously under the 4-5 now banned usernames), he is actually working, that’s his job. Oh... and I know how this @rhg88 fake show is going to end: he will eventually “buy” a chi-fi DAC, likely a Topping or Matrix touted by the “science” ASR peddlers, feed it with a CCA, and prove it to everyone it’s the best ever audio since kingdom come |
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@thyname -- and let’s not forget the ’racism’ tactic. A false moral equivalency has been created between any criticism of chi-fi and outright racism against China. So basically, if you point out any deficiencies in the chifi products, first you will be beaten with the ’measurement’ stick and if that doesn’t work, you will be proclaimed a racist to shut you up! So enjoy the products made by luminaries like Nelson Pass and John Curl while they last. Once the notion of ’planned obsolescence’ takes root in high end audio, you can forget about pushing the envelope, craftsmanship, longevity and pride in ownership. You’ll be lucky if your component will last beyond 5 years, but hey at least they will have perfect measurements, right? |
I only discuss high fi as in high fidelity not tube distortion generators or NOS crap DACs those are lo fi. High fidelity is to reproduce the signal as close to the original recording as possible not add coloration. I don’t care what the cost is if the component can come closer to high fi not the over priced junk most here babble about. Yes "ch-fi" is used in a derogatory way and you know it. |
This thread is pretty typical. Here’s what happens: Somebody posts a question about whether “size really matters.” Then a bunch of other people weigh in. Before long, somebody shows up to lecture everyone about how he or she is the authority and proves it by saying something like “volume times mass does not result in velocity necessary for total accuracy.” Occasionally, somebody will opine some cliche, like, “It aint the meat, it’s the motion.” Then it gets really heated, shots are fired and everyone moves on. Meanwhile, real players have all the fun. ;-) |
To clarify, chi-fi meant China Audio devices. As in audio stuff made in China, from Chinese “companies” reverse engineering stuff made in US, Europe, and Japan. Theft of intellectual property in a nutshell. Like pretty much with everything in world, not just audio. Call it racist, I don’t give a flying f+😍😍. It’s the truth. Coupled with a full blown marketing campaign using the troll factory imports & Google searches, then we have what we have here. |
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Do you think that companies such as aurender or innous or 432 Evo could succesfully sell and market an entire line of servers if there was no sonic improvement between models which are more expensive from one another? " No doubt about it. You can sort of pretend w analog but digital - if the ones & zeroes get thru, thats all there is. |
@arafiq You are the one drawing the false equivalence. No one is getting up in arms when a piece of equipment is criticized for its own merits, but people like you and others in this thread insist on grouping all products from a country and an ethnicity of people under a single generalized term to denigrate with the broadest disparaging brush. That is the type of racial prejudice others might take issue with. It's like calling all American cars trash, but maybe you agree with that too. Again, there is no problem if the discussion is on the performance of a product or a brand. |
Just as I predicted, any criticism of Chinese business practices is being equated with racism. There was nothing in my posts that attacked the social, ethnic, or cultural aspects of China. But the fact remains that the brazen theft of intellectual property and trade secrets, currency manipulation, illegal dumping, lopsided trade policies that create an unequal playing field for foreign companies operating in China, etc. has had a devastating impact on local economies, especially the smaller companies who thrive on innovation and R&D. So yeah, if the companies in Sweden, Denmark or Finland start stealing IP, flooding the market with clones or fakes, while their governments not only look the other way but encourage such practices, we will have no problem calling them out as well. |
@arafiq i wouldn’t pay attention to this clown ’divertiti’ -- he on his high horse pointing out racism 30 years of trading high end gear, this d-bag is 1 of 2 people who burned me, selling me a badly modded/malfunctioning don sachs preamp... then wouldn’t step up and reverse the sale when called out - i needed don sachs to help me out and fix the damn thing ... took me 3 months of back and forth, 2 volume boards, to get it back to stock condition and working right i am over it, some people are just dishonorable, and trading used gear once in a blue moon you run into someone like this... but just the same, i don’t forget bad character and hypocrisy comes in all sizes shapes races |
