Perception

That was a nice, fun, educational and interesting thread.  

Thank you and geoffkait,  don't forget to cryo that aluminum foil hat !  

OK, dudes and dudettes, here are some practical examples anyone can do that illustrate what I’m referring to, that our local environment affects our sensory perception of sound. It doesn’t take a brain surgeon to figure out that these examples cannot be affecting the sound directly, cannot be affecting the audio signal anywhere in the room - not the acoustic waves, the house wiring, cabling, speakers or electronics.

1. If you have CDs or LP stacked horizontally anywhere in the room, instead stack them vertically. Then listen to the system. See what you think. Isn’t that better? 😳

2. If you have any cell phones in the house take them outside. Listen before and after. See what you think. Isn’t that better? 😳

3. Anyone with a lot of books in the listening room, take take them to another room. Same goes for magazines, newspapers, etc. See if that doesn’t improve the sound. Isn’t that better? 😳

4. If you have spare electronics equipment, you know, amps, CD players, spare cables, speakers, musical instruments in the room, taken them all out of the room to another room. Then listen to the system again. Then you tell me, isn’t that a lot better? 🤗

5. Take all batteries from remotes, toys, flashlights, etc. and take them outside for this experiment. Listen to the sound. See, isn’t that better? 😀

Have I forgotten anything? Whoa! Hey, I forgot plants! 🌿 Now, everybody knows plants are supposed to be good for the sound, right? You know, the diffusion provided by a nice palm or fern or rubber tree plant sitting in the room, plus providing a nice relaxing atmosphere, right? Try removing all plants from the room, take them outside for best results. Let me know what you hear. Plants want to be in the ground, not in some pot inside. It’s unnatural.

Have I forgotten anything?

Geoff, what happens when you take the Audiophile out of the room? : )

Often times when a band comes to town, they will play on multiple nights.  Talk to people who have attended all, for this example, three shows...and you will likely get feedback where person one preferred show two...and person two preferred show three...and so on.

How can this be....same band, same venue, same song set, etc. There are a lot of explanations...different mood of the listener each night....different humidity....different temperature....ever so slightly different settings by the sound man....and so on.

No home audio system is a PERFECT representation of live music...no matter how good it may be.  And, because of our own day to day variability as listeners, even the best home systems will provide what seems to be day to day variations in how we hearing and feeling the same song, on the same system, at the same time of day..etc.  Some people resolve this with multiple systems (kind of a today's preferred flavor is X and not Y).

One more comment....I suspect that this is why people who prefer headphones often own multiple headphones....and today choose to listen with headphone A and tomorrow prefer to listen with headphone B.

Perhaps leaving the listening room's a good idea, regarding this issue:  Does anyone else really hate it, when they're singing along with a song, and the artist screws up the lyrics?

This thread has officially become hijacked.

It was good while it lasted.

It’s really a shame when someone decides to inject his ego into a serious discussion.

I’m as serious as a colonoscopy without anesthesia. God gave you two ears and one mouth for a reason. I didn’t say it wouldn’t be a bumpy ride. That’s always the case when brand new information enters the scene. There’s always a whole lot of huffing and puffing and shouting and cries of “foul!” Yes, I know you have some sort of ridiculous claim that manufacturers are trying to control your mind. Give me a break! If you think you know something about external factors’ affect on sound, believe me, you don’t. That was your main point, wasn’t it?

And so it continues.........

I gave you a chance to say something relevant. Oh, well, onwards and upwards!

Yes, there is a giant conspiracy on the part of manufacturers to control my mind.
 You’ve got me there!

You have to take others opinions with a grain of salt. Listen to them because there could be some truth to them & it could help you out.
It could also be misinformation.

I was in a store & a younger guy was raving about a dac & spouting technical specs. He would not be able to comprehend that my 90’s era tube dac would crush it. His math proves him correct.

People have predetermined opinions & usually not personal experiences that they’re confident that my preamp brand is unreliable & my speaker of choice does nothing great, but everything well.

This is all subject to their components, tubes if applicable, cables, recordings, etc.
Limitations there have a direct influence, perception & opinion.

I was once skeptical of spending money on cables. I have since upgraded to reference level cables. It has unleashed the capabilities of my components.

I was almost there...
I had this one last thing that I considered upgrading.

My preamp has 6 tubes. Two are gain tubes & four are buffer tubes. I had upgraded the two gain tubes to my favorite brand NOS. Those are supposed to be the main ones that make the difference & have the most benefit.

The consensus is that preamp buffer tubes make a difference, but not as much as gain tubes.

That may be true, but my system has been transformed by upgrading my preamp buffer tubes to my favorite NOS tubes.

I’m now done with my system.
I clearly realize that the people that have opinions about my speakers have not driven them with the right components, cables, or tubes. It’s a shame because they are truly spectacular if driven as I have.

Opinions are completely relative.
Trust your gut...

Thanks Durkn...

Your wise words completely describe my own opinion but better expressed than I was able to convey it...My best to you...

Indeed we must added to your audio systems peculiarities, room properties, ears individual physiology, all the tweaks that are fundamental to improve all that....Indeed it is my own experience and I only add weigh to your experience...Thanks...

rvpiano:
"I don’t think I’m a unique case. So much of what we perceive in audio is controlled by our psyches."

Hello rvpiano,
     I think this statement from your opening post on this thread is a very good summation and a fundamental truth that most involved in our hobby have discovered themselves along our journeys, and a useful point for those that do not yet realize this truth.
     I believe that everything we perceive in the world throughout our lifetimes are controlled by our psyches. The high quality reproduction of recorded music in our homes is especially susceptible to our perceptions, IMHO, because our senses or feelings of what sounds good to us are so highly personal, unique and subjective. The reality that there are virtually an unlimited number of paths, when the various permutations of component choices along with other factors are considered, to achieve our goals of high quality music reproduction that doubts or insecurities about our individual choices and the overall sound quality results are likely inevitable.
     Even once we subjectively determine our constructed systems sound very good, it seems like it may be our human natures to continually turn our attentions to how we can somehow make it sound incrementally just a bit better. Some of our psyches will perceive this obsessive journey as a curse and others as a joy.
     I believe our psyches are not static entities beyond our control and that we’re all, ultimately, who we choose to be.  Personally, I’m more interested in enjoying good music reproduced by a high quality audio system than contemplating all the psychological mumbo jumbo and thoroughly understanding exactly why I enjoy it. I may be shallow but I’m just happy when listening to my music.

Enjoy,
Tim

rv,

We all have a reset button. When the mind gets too cluttered to function objectively, may be time to press it and start over anew.

Mapman,

That’s exactly what I’ve had to do.

As fate would have it the REPEAT button is often mistaken for the REFRESH button. ®️

Has it really been more than than 20 years ago the intrepid reviewer for Stereophile magazine, Shannon Dickson, opined after his coverage of CES, “most exhibitors cannot get up out of the noise floor?” I suspect that is probably true for most audiophiles, that they cannot get up out of the noise floor. History has a way of repeating itself, not refreshing itself. Take a look 👀 around. Yes, I know what you’re thinking - “My system sounds fabulous!”

mapman"We all have a reset button."

Speak for your self I am not a robot or computer and I do not have a "reset" button and if you do I feel very sorry for you.

Far as, "a reset button": https://news.nd.edu/news/walking-through-doorways-causes-forgetting-new-research-shows/ I was happy to have something on which to blame my forgetting-why-I-went-to-the-kitchen, when I read that, years ago. Now I need an excuse, for standing at the bottom of my stairs, wondering if I had a reason to go up, or- if I just came down. I’d always hoped, getting old would take longer!

Go to live music, particularly unamplified concerts.  Listen, listen, listen to what real music performances sound like.  Then aim for that "same" perception with your system.  Rely on NO ears other than ones that are musically perceptive and exposed to live music.

Time to ditch this "friend" and meet some new people.

I mean, what's more important: your satisfaction with your carefully purchased & curated audio system? Or a long-time friend?

Going to live performances is perhaps the only practical way to really hit that "reset button" in regards to perception of what real music can sound like.

Only then you are in a good position to start objectively assessing the sound quality of recordings and the toys used to play them.


Be warned: what you hear in the jazz club or symphony hall will not sound like what you hear at the amplified rock concert. But it’s all real! Go figure! How about those recordings? Live or Memorex?

The long-time friend may be history!

Aside from trying to find new and mystic ways to keep those never ending, pesky Martian dust storms or the perpetual spinning of the earth from screwing up our perception of how our system sounds, we should, from time to time, remember what it is (or was in the first place) that we, as individuals, want and expect from our system and surroundings to present the elusion of a living performance.

For me, it isn't about re-creating the full scope and volume of a concert performance, at 90+ decibels; it's more about the richness timber and presence of real instruments and good vocals in Light Pop and Contemporary, or small venue Jazz, Celtic, Folk and Chamber at a volume my old ears can handle.

While it can be helpful to get the opinions and advice of others and to make and take opportunities to audition equipment, accessories and tweaks that may help to build or improve our system, what's important to remember is that it is individually specific to - our ears, our budget and our preference of listening and music............Jim