As to cutting edge material, It was the main reason I was interested in the persona line and they can be amazing, but I still think everything is a compromise. When we hear details never before heard from a recording there has to be a reason and my initial impressions are instrument decay loses emphasis... it's a design choice to place hyper detail over lush midrange because both can't occupy the same space at the same time and both be heard. Whats unusual about the persona speakers is that choosing the components for the job these speakers will deliver the sound you prefer. My meridians are more on the lush, fat side of neutral with a full midrange and all the detail is there, it's just not highlighted making for a more natural, musical presentation. The personas with the right components for the room acoustics can be tuned for the sound desired. This I know because I've heard it happen swapping out gear.
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@steve59 What gear are you using to make your 7F sound so good? |
The right room and system matching and the Persona's will reward you.
I have a Cary DMS Streamer/player/dac mated with an Rogue RP7 w/ upgraded tubes and the Person 5F's sound fantastic!! . Not the least bit of edginess or fatigue. Still tweaking the swarm sub system. ( you may not need with the 7F)
The Persona's are great speakers but need to be carefully matched, but when you do you will be rewarded!!
I just added a few pics on the new listening room, still tweaking but like where its headed. |
The pathos logos mk2 was my favorite |
Curious if anyone who has had a chance to listen to the Persona B stand mount and also have listened to the Usher Dancer Mini-X DMD. In a small 9 x 12 listening room, how much better if any would the Persona likely be? Thanks in advance |
only you can be the judge of that. Many find the Persona to be a bit bright and fatiguing and others love them. Anytime you get that type of response from a speaker you must listen to it with you gear. Even dealers who post on them say they have to be set up perfectly and you need great gear that has synergy as well as a room that is tuned properly in order for them to sound really good. I’ve heard the series and they aren’t my cup of tea. We all hear differently. Can you audition anywhere?
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Thanks for responding. Actually the more I read about these the more I think it would be too risky to buy without listening. And to answer your question I don't think I have a way to audition them. This thread might be the one I read a few months ago that had a lot of people either loving them or not so much. Then I saw a pre-owned set for sale that got me interested. There's a different thread here where everybody pretty much babbled incoherently how unbelievably great they were. I think some linked to some reviews that may have been skewed in Paradigm's favor. One speaker that nobody seems to ever talk badly about is the TAD stand mount. Maybe I should just be happy with what I have and keep in the back of my mind that someday under the right circumstances I may be able to get a set of those |
I would take the TAD ME-1 over the Persona 3F. I would take the Persona 5F over the ME-1. I have auditioned all 3 when I was looking to buy. I would use my KRELL K-300i integrated on both lines because they could both use some warmth.
One of the worst auditions I had was with a 9H. Very disappointing that that dealer had no clue about setting up the speaker, he had the bass cranked up to 11.
TAD is no longer sold in the USA.
I auditioned the Usher Mini Dancer (non-diamond). I thought it sounded very good but the TAD ME-1 is much better. I also liked the KEF Reference 1 over the Usher Mini Dancer. The TAD ME-1 over the KEF Reference 1.
Check out the Yamaha NS5000 with some neutral gear. I liked it the best of all the speakers I have listed. |
Thanks yyzsantabarbara for the very thorough response. Of all of the speakers you mentioned I think only the Kef and Persona 3F would be speakers I could consider to purchase new. All of the rest would have to be pre-owned to keep the price at 10k or under. Do you not think the Yamaha and the Persona 5F would be too much in a 9x12 room? Also would you feel confident buying TAD knowing they are no longer distributed here? Thinking if I ever needed a replacement part or something. Any thoughts of Dynaudio or Canton? Canton also seems like a company with little or no us presence. Thanks again |
I recently called the dealer where I demoed the TAD ME-1 and after I heard they are no longer distributed in the USA I crossed them off my list.
The Yamaha and Persona 5F (naked) would be too much for such a room. I have the same room and I have an equally (well almost) large speaker, the Thiel C3.7, in this room. It was my mission to make it work in this small space. I now have it sounding amazing on my ROON streaming via physical sound panels from GIK Acoustics. I also have software DSP using
Convolution
files added into ROON Server. These DSP files were created by Mitch Barnett of Accurate Sound in Canada. I measured my room with tools recommended by Mitch and gave him the resulting data files. He cam back with the DSP Convolution file(s). I choose the one that was the best fit for me. Interestingly, when I recently got a CODA #8 amp I switched to the Convolution file that did not have a slight bass bump.
You could make the Persona 5F and Yamaha NS5000 work in this space with the same technique as I used. However, I would suggest the following more appropriate speakers for you room to make your life easier. I wanted something inappropriate for the small space.
- Magico A1
- Vivid Kaya 45 (very expensive)
- KEF Reference 1 (I would wait for Meta version if buying new)
- Persona 3F (need warm gear if you listen all day like me)
- KEF LS50 + KEF KC62 sub
I have the KEF LS50 + KC62 system in a large room driven by a Topping pre90 and Benchmark AHB2 monos and it sounds very good. It would be incredible in my small office.
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I was never moved by
Dynaudio. I heard they top of the line stuff about a decade ago. Very expensive back then. I have not heard Canton. |
Sorry, when I said Dynaudio I was thinking Dali. The Epicon 2 specifically. I have a call into my local Kef dealer to discuss availability and price for the Ref 1. I will also ask him if he can find out about a new Meta version. Thanks for the heads up, I didn't know anything about that new design |
what's your price range Milk? That's important to know ;). Do you like a true neutral sound or do you like a speaker that can be tilted in the upper end a bit? |
Your KEF dealer will tell you that there is no word on any META release. It is likely the case that there is no news on this upgrade but your dealer will also prefer to make a sale today.
I would wait at least till the end of this year. The KEF LS50 was the first KEF to get the META treatment about 12 months ago. They said it would trickle up the line to the REFERENCE and likely BLADE.
The question posted above is something you should think about. A neutral speaker (like most I have listed) or something a little warmer. It would also affect the gear you would need to buy (or maybe already have). |
Thanks again to both of you guys for responding. As far as my ultimate goal in a speaker would be, I would say the feeling of being there if it were live performers is the goal. I think that’s the case for a lot of us. I do like a lot of micro detail if I’m saying that right. For instance I would not want even a slightly veiled sound even if it made the sound a little sweeter. What I’m already getting out of my Ushers is pretty darn good. Things like acoustical solos or vocals are pretty amazing. What I wonder is if it could be better when a lot of things are going on at once. I’ve often wondered when a bunch of musicians are playing at the same time and different vocals and sound effects and such, can any speaker really match the sound of a live performance? Maybe speakers with three or four drivers hold a big advantage in that way. I suspect you guys might know the answer to that. What I did yesterday is send an email to GR-research that specializes in upgrading speakers with better or even the best components internally. I know he has worked with different Usher speakers in the past. That would be my perfect and game if I could put a few hundred or maybe even a thousand or two into the speakers I have and match the performance of these speakers that are and the 8 to 15 thousand dollar range when new. I know that’s a tall task and may not be realistic. I know it’s money I would never see again if I ever sold them, but if I like them enough I don’t think I ever would sell them |
Ushers are great speakers. The xover upgrade for my be 20dmd’s was pretty reasonable. I sold them because I really wanted to try a pair of dsp units that came up, but usher does a really great job making revealing speakers that don’t shred your set list. The dmd midrange driver available as an upgrade is interesting, tho i really thought the be mid was perfect. |
Hi guys we were Usher dealers great speakers in their day the personas are much more transparent and inage better
For your room persona 3fs
Or the personna b or kef ref1
With a good small sub for the persona B the Ref 1s go low enough for most
DAVE AND TROY
audio intellect
Paradigm and kef dealers
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@milkdud Before you spend any money on speakers you should evaluate the room. electronics, speakers, and wires and decide if everything is optimized. The room being the most important in my view. You can put an incredible speaker in a bad room and it won't sound incredible.
Your speakers seem like they are pretty good from what I remember of the Usher Tiny Dancer and the Be20 that I heard.
I worked with GIK acoustics remotely to help tame my office room and my simple KEF LS50s sounded incredible afterwards.
Actually a few minutes ago I rearranged some things in my living room where the LS50's now reside with a KEF KC62 sub and I was so happy with the results. It saved me a ton of money because I don't think I will change this setup for a while. The LS50 are bettered by the new LS50 Meta and the KEF Reference 1 but I could have bought one of those better speakers and had bad sound unless I fixed my room first.
BTW - If you want uber detail (like my living room system) demo some very quiet gear. |
I won’t argue with the personas being more transparent with better imaging I would suggest the bass integration is also phenomenal wrt personas, but the ushers are considerably less fussy to placement and partnering electronics.
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The problem many of us have with the Persona's are the highs. They are tipped up a bit when measured properly. This will allow them to artificially sound more open maybe, but they are fatiguing to many, but not all.
this is why you must audition in your room. I'd personally never spend a dime on a speaker without auditioning it, but that's me. I also don't buy speakers that often and when I do, it's usually to upgrade within the same company. I've only owned Proac and Vandersteen's since the 1990's (for my main system). I've owned JM Labs (now known as Focal) in a bedroom system and loved them. I also have owned Paradigms for another den system and enjoyed them with their top sub in the day, but they weren't bright teh way I find their newer speaker designs. I have had many folks bring speakers to the house to audition over the years, but nothing so far has me changing from my Steen's.
Rooms are important, but if you find a speaker to bright in a store, it will most probably not be that much better in your room (although it's amazing what a room will do to sound, lol). Conversely it also won't change the sound of a dull speaker either and there are plenty of those on teh market too as there are plenty who like that sound.
We are all sensitive to different things and I find most listeners audition and try to hear what they are told to listen for by dealers who are trying to sell their speakers. That's fine. I personally have always trusted my own ears. I also take away the remote from anyone I am listening with so no one gooses the volume etc...
I personally found years ago that I like the time and phase correct designs best as long as they are implemented properly. There have been only a few designers who make their speakers this way as it's not easy and it's not cheap to do it. The original Thiels, Meadowlark, Vandersteen and Dunleavy and Green Mountain Audio are some. I think Maggies and Emminent Technologies are also time and phase correct. They have to be first order in order for this to be true. Wilson and others may claim they are, but they aren't.
JMHO... |
