''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum

Dear dover, by wrestling with identity conundrum I forget the most

important thing. You as former owner of an , say, HI-Fi shop should

know this better than I. My assumptions is that manufacturer get +/-

30 % of the price, 30% importer and 30% dealers. Your refurbishment

other call  ''rebuild''. This is than an ''one to one'' relation between

customer and manufacturer. The so called ''íntermediary'' are

avoided . Does this mean that you got your cart for 30% of the

retail price? BTW refurbishing is as clear as rebuild. There are many

parts in an MC cart. One need to know which parts are rebuild 

otherwise we are there were we started.

Dear dover, Who would believe that you would use Rauls terminology?

I never understood what he meant with ''refurbishing'' but he deed this

all the time. Are you not confusing cart exchange with refurbishing?

Many manufacturer refuse ''retipping'' but offer exchange . For them

it is more easy to offer an new cart instead to mess with the old one.

However putting new generator with the rest in the ''old body'' 

may look as ''refurbishing''???

I recently stared the thread ''on what there is'' but , alas, this was not

an success. Beryllium is toxic and forbidden in order to protect labourer..

This means that production of beryllium cantilevers is forbidden. However

we can't know what individual retippers have in their stock. It is possible

that your retipper bought an ''huge amount'' when those were available. 

I have never heard about retip problems with cactus styli. My point was

that assumption that each manufacturer uses his own ''uniqeu stylus''

such that other styli are something totally different is based on sand.

Or that manufacturer and retipper use the same styli. However ''original

stylus'' suggest something else. That is the problem of the word ''original''.

''Original'' also assume identity otherwise we would have no idea what

we are talking about. Hower such persons can't be excluded,

Japanese economic success was based on improving western technology

and this presupposes changing their ''originality''. 

Otherwise there would be no such aversion against retips. My point 

is that retipper use the same styli as the manufacturer. My point is

nor ''what kind of cantilevers there are''. Identity assumes recognizing

the thing to be recognised. There is no other possibility . The owner

of object is supposed to know that this object is his ownership.   

For all of the above it highlights that you can’t beat sending the cartridge back to the manufacturer for refurbishment. Note I did not say retip.

I have had my Dynavector Karat Nova rebuilt 3 times - each time it comes back completely rebuilt (including generator) with new test results for each rebuild - output, inter channel separation, optimum tracking weight etc all documented.

If you look at how the original diamond fits into the cantilever, in many cartridges retipping can never achieve the same level of fit - there will always be more glue than in the original. There is an argument for "should you replace the whole cantilever, diamond assembly" in order to maintain integrity. I don’t think retippers have access to precision micro laser cutters that Namiki possess.

On my original Sumiko Talismans with sapphire cantilever/microridge diamond you cannot see the glue at all. Compare that to the famous Garrott retips that I also have there is significantly more glue.

After years of effort I was finally able to make the perfect cantilever. Crossed saguaro cactus with Madake bamboo watered with beryllium fertilizer, powder coated with boron and diamond dust it is tipped with dilithium crystal in a Hattori Hansu samurai profile that slices through records like butter.

Unfortunately it turns out better to slice through the groove, and not the whole record. Back to the drawing board....

A few years past I have had a Beryllium Cantilever with an Ogura Vital Diamond attached and fitted to a Cartridge by a well known Rebuild Service in Europe.

Most will claim Beryllium is not a option on offer. 

Cactus Needle will also be an offering from a rebuild service and the source will not be from Namiki or Ogura.

The Structure of a Cactus Needle when seen under a microscope is Scale like and the tests have shown the Cactus Needle is significantly harder than all other organic wood materials, the Cactus Needle has a very stable property and is not changing in differing ambient conditions.

I have not investigated Madake Bamboo as a Cantilever, so can't offer a summary on how it compares to Cactus as a alternative organic material.   

Speaking about numbers it seems that next to big and small numbers

there are also ''several'' kinds. Considering my ''point'' about

identity those will be difficult to, uh, identify. However the ''whole

point'' about styli is their identity which is assumed to be determined

by manufacturer. But my point is that manufacturer as well retipper

buy those by Namiki or Ogura. I recently retipped one of my carts

by ''Expert Stylus'' but was not able to get boron cantilever. Besides

this info about ''boron shortage'' I got in this forum. Whom can one

trust (grin). 

Dear Lew, I assume you mean Bartok piano concerto. 

Alas my post about small numbers is removed by the moderators.

Probable because there no such individuals in USA? 

Boron rod is used by several rebuilder's including VAS. Boron pipe is no longer made though.

BillWojo

But didn’t SoundSmith recently introduce the boron option? Which must mean he recently found a source. Some others do too. (Listening to Barton piano concerto #2 which is not relaxing, for the pianist at least.)

Hi Lew, In the German magazine ''LP'' the whole story about Gyger can be

found. They never made profit from their styli production. Probably because

Van den Hul who designed Gyger I, II and S (?) stipulates his right to sell

them under his own name. So Van den Hul sold many more than Gyger.

Gyger is out of styli business. So Benz uses at present ''micro ridge'' 

which is produced by Namiki. I am not sure but Ogura seems to

produce elliptical styli only. Than we have the curious ''lack of boron''

for the boron cantilevers. The fact that sapphire is more cheap may

explain the situation. I hope J. Carr will help with , say, the truth value?

Was it always the case that manufacturers were limited to Ogura and Namiki? Possibly not. If not, then some cartridges with “house built” cantilever and stylus cannot be restored exactly as original, unless the OEM can still do the restoration with original parts.

mijostyn, ''reripped by manufacturer'' is wishful thinking. The ''later

produced styli''  seems to be better. Wrong assertions can never

produce right answers.

No, but it takes a darn steady hand, way steadier than mine. An assembly microscope helps and they are not cheap. I think the stylus profile is the most important issue. If you liked the sound do not change profiles. 

The main issue is resale value. I believe "retipped by manufacturer" gets more money.