''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum

terry, Never seen an production line for cartridges? Those are imply

by AT story about ''selected  parts'' by ''selected technician'' in the

USA (aka Signet kinds) not Japan. AT 180, 170 and 160 don't

mention any such ''selection''. BTW in Frege's time there were

no retips.

terry , I am still waiting for your explanation  of identity without logic

and philosophy. In ordinary language that is. This way you can 

''spare us'' from ''elementary philosophy'' (your invention?) 

mijostyn, ''reripped by manufacturer'' is wishful thinking. The ''later

produced styli''  seems to be better. Wrong assertions can never

produce right answers.

Hi Lew, In the German magazine ''LP'' the whole story about Gyger can be

found. They never made profit from their styli production. Probably because

Van den Hul who designed Gyger I, II and S (?) stipulates his right to sell

them under his own name. So Van den Hul sold many more than Gyger.

Gyger is out of styli business. So Benz uses at present ''micro ridge'' 

which is produced by Namiki. I am not sure but Ogura seems to

produce elliptical styli only. Than we have the curious ''lack of boron''

for the boron cantilevers. The fact that sapphire is more cheap may

explain the situation. I hope J. Carr will help with , say, the truth value?

Dear Lew, I assume you mean Bartok piano concerto. 

Alas my post about small numbers is removed by the moderators.

Probable because there no such individuals in USA? 

Speaking about numbers it seems that next to big and small numbers

there are also ''several'' kinds. Considering my ''point'' about

identity those will be difficult to, uh, identify. However the ''whole

point'' about styli is their identity which is assumed to be determined

by manufacturer. But my point is that manufacturer as well retipper

buy those by Namiki or Ogura. I recently retipped one of my carts

by ''Expert Stylus'' but was not able to get boron cantilever. Besides

this info about ''boron shortage'' I got in this forum. Whom can one

trust (grin). 

 

 

 

Dear dover, Who would believe that you would use Rauls terminology?

I never understood what he meant with ''refurbishing'' but he deed this

all the time. Are you not confusing cart exchange with refurbishing?

Many manufacturer refuse ''retipping'' but offer exchange . For them

it is more easy to offer an new cart instead to mess with the old one.

However putting new generator with the rest in the ''old body'' 

may look as ''refurbishing''???

I recently stared the thread ''on what there is'' but , alas, this was not

an success. Beryllium is toxic and forbidden in order to protect labourer..

This means that production of beryllium cantilevers is forbidden. However

we can't know what individual retippers have in their stock. It is possible

that your retipper bought an ''huge amount'' when those were available. 

I have never heard about retip problems with cactus styli. My point was

that assumption that each manufacturer uses his own ''uniqeu stylus''

such that other styli are something totally different is based on sand.

Or that manufacturer and retipper use the same styli. However ''original

stylus'' suggest something else. That is the problem of the word ''original''.

''Original'' also assume identity otherwise we would have no idea what

we are talking about. Hower such persons can't be excluded,

Japanese economic success was based on improving western technology

and this presupposes changing their ''originality''. 

 

Otherwise there would be no such aversion against retips. My point 

is that retipper use the same styli as the manufacturer. My point is

nor ''what kind of cantilevers there are''. Identity assumes recognizing

the thing to be recognised. There is no other possibility . The owner

of object is supposed to know that this object is his ownership.   

 

Dear dover, by wrestling with identity conundrum I forget the most

important thing. You as former owner of an , say, HI-Fi shop should

know this better than I. My assumptions is that manufacturer get +/-

30 % of the price, 30% importer and 30% dealers. Your refurbishment

other call  ''rebuild''. This is than an ''one to one'' relation between

customer and manufacturer. The so called ''íntermediary'' are

avoided . Does this mean that you got your cart for 30% of the

retail price? BTW refurbishing is as clear as rebuild. There are many

parts in an MC cart. One need to know which parts are rebuild 

otherwise we are there were we started.

Dear dover,  Not everyone can move to New Zeeland to enjoy clean

air, nature , holy water and exceptional wines. You mentioned ''cost''

but without numbers. So we have no idea what your ''refreshments''

cost. For ''us'' the commons 500 euro for an RETIP with cantilever+

stylus is ''mucho dollares''. For this kind of money one can get an decent

MM as Raul has shown. But you are not specific about parts and

their IDENTITI while logic state : no identity without entity. Aka the

''classical objects''. One can also state that MC consist of different  parts

which need to be put together.  Each of those parts assumes its own

identity. Say ''the moving parts'' consist of ''joint pipe'' (aka aluminum tube)

in which front side cantilever stylus combo is glued and on its back side

coils and tension wire are fastened . Those are moving parts while

tension wire connects those moving parts with generator which does

not move. Now does Dynavector produce its own styli + cantilevers

or are those ''simply'' bought by Namiki or Ogura? Mentioning ''micro

ridge'' means Namiki stylus. Does Dynavector ''glue'' those with very

little glue in their own cantilevers? If so what is the difference ''against'' 

common retiper? The amount of glue? I thought about this young

man who was very careful to inform the parents of his girl friend:

''your daughter is little bit  pregnant''. 

 

pinda, the so called ''free market'' exist only in economic books. Take

for example Holland the ''champion of free market''. Each item that

cross the border means 12% import duty + 21% VAT. Beryllum cantilevers

are not available in ordinary sense. Only those retipers who have them

in stock can provide them. If those are outside of E.Union ... You get

the picture. The so called ''free choice'' in a myth. ''Possible choices''

assume ''impossible kind''. So your ''inductive reasoning'' aka from your

individual situation to general statement will not do. The same apply

for our beloved dover. One can much better formulate some hypothetical

statement which we can see as ''assertion'' from which deductions

can be made. Then reason in ''usual logic'': if the assertions are not

true then deduced statements are also not true.

Dear jcarr, I am speechless. If one can believe this about an

lawyer (grin). But you provided all  ''entities'' with their identities

as logic and scientific discussion presuppose. The most of us are

laymen but willing to learn, You are a kind of our Professor and

we all are proud to have you in our forum. Many thanks.

Hi wolfie, Kant wrote an book about ''pure reason'' and one about 

''practical reason'', Your contribution is obvious about ''practical

reason''. The one that ''counts'' for the most of us. You are probably

to young to know who Marlene Ditrich was. The older among us 

admire her because of her legs. She was wondering why American

women are so badly clothed, She stated : ''at present (1960) one can

get decent cloths for ONLY $ 100000 ''. At present there are also

carts for + 15 K...  

jallan, you should not blame your own shortcomings to other.

After the lecture of our Professor JCarr and the ''synthesis'' by dover:

''it comes down to economics and budget''  we may try to ''reduce

the complexity'' of  our questions  to some ''well- organized survay'',

Retips in their ''cheap budget domain'' as  contrapositioned to '''rebuild'' or

''refreshment by the manufacturer'' may form ''division line'' in the sense

of what is affordable to whom. My guess ''division'' is at $ 3000 . Obviously

arbitrary but those who can afford ''refreshment'' are ''other category'' of

income earners. Think of those ''astronomical prices '' of MC cartridges,

Those who can afford them will certainly not care about ''retips'' in their

''inferiour interpretation'' So ''retips'' are not their problem. The fact that

there are pretty many producers which aim at the rich among us imply

that those are not scarce, One need ro accommodate to new riches from

the not expected former socialistic countries  like China and Russia.

 We don't need to be envy, There are plenty excellent  carts from both 

kinds for ''modest prices''.

 

JCarr mentioned Mori san as ''neglected innovator'' who got, despite

of this ''neglect'' much attention from our Aussie who collect not only

cartridges of both kinds but also Patek Philip watches. He wrote an

''poem''  about XL 88D (D= diamond). What is less known is Raul's

''poem'' about XL-44 l. So, it seems, Mori made ''rich man'' but also

''poor man'' cartridges.  The innovation involved was ''8 form''  coil

former and ''potting''. That is using some  damping ''stuff'' inside

the cart body to ''kill the resonaces''.. My friend and retiper  Axel

Schurholz described the ''stuff'' as ''glue'', Later on I found similar

method of damping by Magic Diamond made by Reto Andreoli .

The whole XL Sony series used the same generator but different

cantilevers and styli. The cheapest kind by XL 44. So I posted my

sample ( $350) to Axel and asked his best cantilever/stylus combo.

Aka boron cantilever and ''nude shibata''. Well this ''poor man cart''

can compete with all my ''exotic kinds''. I also need to mention ''lyrical

description'' by Raul about ''old and forgotten ADC 26/27''.  I bought

two for 300 euro. In my last sentence  in my previous contribution

I stated ''there are plenty excellent cartridges for modest prices''.

Those are two examples.

Selected parts was the ''argument'' for the AT Signet series ,also

for for the ''Precept'' series as if AT nomenclature was not sufficient

''extendeded''. Some scientist complain about ''too many variables''.

What about ''to many names''? 

Besides this imply that the parts are not equal . I avoid expression

''identical'' in order not to cause additional confusion. Those are, I think

PR ''arguments''. Besides how are we supposed to know or check? .

There was ever an linguistic theory about ''emotional meaning of words''.

I think that expression ''original'' causes ''emotions''. But this theory

lost from ''referential one''  which prefer names for the identity 

determination. But  there are to many objects in the know universe,

not to mention the parallel one, so we have not names for all of them.

That is why we use ''descriptive names''  like ''iron horse'' for the

first seen locomotive  or ''the teacher of Alexander'' , etc, etc,.. 

We also use words to pretend something or other. So be careful

by reading post in our forum.

 

Dear dover, you still use the expression ''rebuild'' as the old Greek

''deus ex machina'' . An MC cart is ''composition'' of different parts.

Your ''rebuild'' expression  not one single one. There is this metaphor

 which state that ''whole'' is more than its parts. I was talking about

styli and cantilevers which manufacturer  as well retipper buy by

Namiki or Ogura. JCarr mentioen ''levels of styli'' and cantilevers 

but those are also produced by the same Japanese Jewel companies.

Gyger is out of business so one can say that those have monopoly

position. Axel Schurholz, one of the best retipper, complained to me:

''the Japanese increased their prices with 100% without any consultation''.

So he was forced to increase his own prices and had difficulty to explain

his customer his price increase.  We can assume that the ''first level''

of styli are those which are used in '''most cases'' and also that a

retip with boron or sapphire cantilever + micro ridge stylus cost +

500 euro. I am not sure if this  ''operation'' can be called ''rebuild''

but this ''operation'' consist in gluing this combo in the joint pipe

(aka aluminum tube ) front side. Why should any manufacturer do

this better than an retipper . If manufacturer would do retips they

would need one extra employee for this job. But why should they

when they buy those complete by mentioned Jewel companies?

BTW ''a dead horse'''is not an ''descriptive name''  but an ''metaphor''..

The problem with metaphors is that everyone is entitled to his own

interpretation. If one has a clear thought he does not need metaphors

but express this thought in ordinary language. You obviously have

difficulty to express your thoughts clearly . Problem with linguistics and

logic?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dear dover, We can use your ''dead horse'' as description for your

3 worn out styli which are ''rebuild'' by Dynavector for ''refreshement

price''. of, say, half the retail  price . This imply 50% of the just mentioned

price. While you should know that 30% is their usual ''profit margin ''.

As a former ''dealer'' you should know the prices. Well you could

also do ''only the stylus retip'' by Axel for, say, 200 euro. But , as

I mentioned by Marlene Ditrich , rich men or women are not well

''connected'' to the real world. There is also similar story about

Marie Antoinette who was wondering why people do not eat cookie

when they lack bread. You should ''keep your point'' by your

remark about economic and budget. BTW I assume they in (Dutch)

New Zeeland have TV? On the TV you can see the whole day 

Ads about prices. The not recognize terror on human kind. 

 

 

Those who make sarcastic comments on ''second hand English''

obviously have the illusion that the ''native speakers'' are able to

express their thoughts clearly. 

terry, ''elementary logic'' has this form: ''If P then p&q''

This means:  if the premise is true than also the deduced sentences p&q

But if ''P is not true neither are p&g''.

You  specify your Premise ''ex post''. In JCarr explanation you now

assume 3th of 4 th level styli and cantilevers. which are ordered by

either Ogura or Namiki. My (arbitrary line) was $3000. This is my

assumption about ( dover's) budget . What an ''average'' member

can pay for an cart.

So I deed provide my PREMISE IN ADVANCE but you deed not..

For ''my level'' of styli and cantilevers an retip with the combo is

+./- 500 euro. Stylus solo is not easy to find because this retip is

,ore difficult to do. This explanation I got from my friend Axel with

+ 40 years experience with cartridge repair. The combo is more

easy and also more expensive. He also got styli and cantilevers 

from either Ogura or Namiki. Think now again about my statement:

''why should an manufacturer do this job better''? 

 

Who cares about +15 K carts with 4th level (diamond) cantilevers

and ''gold plated'' styli (grin). 

Dear dover, what about your ''synthesis'': ''it comes down to economics

and budget'': 

 

terry, well done !

I got many advises. Here are my: 

Dover, more holy water from New Zeeland and much less  wine!

terrry, Your left brain side should tell the right side what either has

stated earlier.

Can anyone explain to me why Axel was not able to answer all those

emails about his retips (alias ''rebuilds'')? He got customers from the

whole world thanks PR in this forum. I as his friend needed to wait for

more than 3 months for ''my retips''. By van den Hul, Expert stylus,

Ledermann the same ''state of affair''. This I call hypocritical behaviour

of those who pretend to be against retips.

 

Actually my remark about terry also apply for dover but he certainly 

can't be blamed for the fact that N.Zeeland produces such a good

wine. Also interesting the fact that he owns an second cart next to

his many times ''rebuild'' Karat 13 D. One AS NEW (sic!) Ikeda

Kiwame. Does ''like new'' mean ''second hand''? Like Lew ; more

TT's than carts. Not to mention all those tonearms.

pinda, ''for two things to say that they are identical is nonsense

and to say that everything is identical with itself says nothing''

(Wittgenstein)

dover, never heard about ''teasing''?

pindac , Those  are ''deep philosophical waters'' because two

different criteria are assumed. I already quoted Wittgenstein:

''for two things to say  they are identical make no sense''.

Even Quine was not able to explain the difference between

equal and identical. Frege's  problem to explain truth was 

caused by his conviction that  ''correspondence''  in correspondence

between an statement and reality make no sense because one

is linguistic and ''the other'' is not. BTW the expression ''extra

linguistic reality'' means ''the same'' . Now ''our carts''. If they are

''identical'' how  can they sound different? There are to many people

who sell their Van den Huls but there not many who sell their FR-7fz.

or Takeda's Miyabi. 

BTW are Siamese twins equal or identical? If identical what kind

of ID should they have. ?  Are two eggs identical or equal in the

sense of their property? Well there is ''property criterion'' and

meaning criterion : ''everything is identical with itself''.

According to Wittgenstein this ''says nothing''. :iucky us humans

each individual has his own such that there are no two with the

same identity. However some may look as an other(grin) 

Wittgenstein was Austrian Philosopher belonging to the so called

''analytical school''. His work was ''Tractatus'' and ''Philosophical

investigations''. Alas he was not capable to formulate any theory

but made many  philosophical remarks. About 10000 in his

investigation while an normal person can remember, say, 10.

There was also one particle physics  scientist very celebrated

but I forget his name. Not however his statement: ''If I was smarter

I could remember more of those particles''.

In , uh, ''the same way'' I remember quoted statement about identity

from Wittgenstein. '' A looks like B''  may , I hope, explain uh, ''the

same cart'' in your description ? This  assumes that A and B

are not identical. In addition certainly so if they don't sound ,uh,

''the same''.

 

Damn you pindac, I was forced to search for an possible explanation

for Wittgenstein opinion about identity. I knew that is has something

to do with difference between properties and meaning but forget the

(damn) details. Well there is this ''huge German philosopher ''

Leibniz with his ''principle'' of identity named in Latin parlance 

among scientist back then . Just bellow aristocracy qua status.

the expressions was INDISCERNIBILIS or English INDISTINGUISHING:

My guess was '' if there are two eggs'' than obviously (?) one

can distinguish  one from the other.  But one need to know that

back than it was not polite to contradict philosopher, Certainly so

in Germany. Think of Kant . If you want to stay alive never say

whatever bad about his greatness. Wittgenstein however was not

even impresses by Russel or Frege and insulted both by

stating that ''two of whatever'' can't be identical as well that

this kind of identity MAKE NO SENSE. But he actually also

stated the same for the other CRITERION  : being identical with

one self. This according to him ''says nothing''. 

So my best members of this forum look out with identity 

of parts and other CONUNDRUM as mentioned in this thread. 

How dover killed his own ''rtinciple'' or  ''arguments''.

We first got as ''general rule'' (12-24) : ''it comes down to economics

and budget''

(12-27) ''it is very simple : cost benefit analysis'' (principle?)

But : ''it is not your business what I paid for my (3x) rebuild''.

Well I reported ''my prices'' but he refuses to report his . How

than can we make ''cost benefit analysis?

But then as by the Greek ''deus ex machina''

the Denon 103 D. as ''prove'' that the point is not about prices.

But why should our members bother about ''rebuild'', ''refreshment''

or even my ''inferior  retip '' for  500 euro when we can get

new Denon 103 D for $ 280 ? 

Well pindac, You don't need to be modest reg. your intellectual

capabilities. I deed need to search for the meaning of your

expression ''merryment'' because there was no such word in my

Dutch English vocabulary . But on internet was even its social

function explained as humour. You are the first who grasped 

my intention to be , say, amusing. People obviously consider

philosophy and logic as ''serous business. But this is not the case

as an French mathematician stated about logical explanation 

of mathematics:  ''this logical approach is certainly not infertile 

it produces paradoxes''. 

Thanks for your understanding .

 

noske, this is the worst PR story i have ever seen. In Dutch

jurisprudence was an case about advertisement with a curious

judgment : ''the bigger the lie the smaller the lie''. That is

if even  the kids can ''grasp'' the lie it should not count as lie.

Tell a lie as well pretending is an art.  The art to compose a lie which

looks like truth. This imply that lie which are obvious make no sense.

There are however ''honest kind''. As , for example, from this

Danish philosopher who stated: ''I never lie because I don't need

to remember them''.

In the other thread about ''sound of wire'' dover wrote an poem 

about Denon 103 D and ruined this way also the ''contribution'' of

noske as well the relevance of discrimination between retips, rebuild

as well ''refreshment'' of carts. 

 

Dear pindac,  Nice theoretic thesis. But the question is how many

people can afford , say, 4th level cartridges? If our task is to

stimulate young people to join us I think dover's ''poem'' about 

Denon 103 D is of most importance. I do not think ''inductive''

that is from my personal situation and than composing general

statements. Would ''sound'' like Marlene Ditrich or Marie Antoinete.

I own + 70 carts among which very rare kinds.

 

 

My Gosh I owned Denon 103  before dover. But in disquise as Magic

Diamond made by Andreoli from Denon PARTS .  Not sure however of

which LEVEL those are.  Does this imply or mean that dover and I have

the same  taste? 

 

 

best-groove, Not sure what you mean with ''What'' but if you are

''stunned'' by my guess that dover and I have ''the same'' taste I

need to mention that I also own Ikeda's 9 Rex (cantileverless) kind

as well Takeda's Miyabi. If in addition dover also owns some of the

FR-7 kinds  then it should be obvious that we at least share some

''the same'' cartridges. 

 

best-groove, it is obvious our fault that  you are not capable to understand

the ''rambling sentences'' so you should buy an better translator. Japanese

seem to be experts in translation but Chinese are nearly as good and

cheaper.

Rephrasing the points made:

The myth of ''original parts'', ''identity confusion'' and ''misunderstanding

of retips''.

1.''Original parts'' presuppose  not only the method of their idetification

     but also of their importance. Neither is made clear.

2. ''Identity'' : no identity without an entity or ''object'' . Names are assumed

     to  provide the reference. But ''fake names'' are not .

3.  Retips, aversion against retips is based on false assumptions: 

     that manufacturer use  their own unique styli while retipers use

     some other (not original) kinds. Our general statement is that

      both use ''the same'' styli produced ether by Ogura or Namiki

      as a combo with the cantilever. The question than is , is gluing

      this combo in the ''joint pipe'' (aluminum  part of the cantilever)

      better done by the manufacturer or retiper as well why? 

      The other thread about Replicant as ''third party'''deed not

       deliver relevant information. 

 

 

The usual qualifications without argumentation. People who have

no idea what they are talking about complain about their own 

''incapability''. There is internet you know. There you can

check your own language barrier. Understanding Raul ''exactly''

illustrate your ''understanding'',

 

 

Pinda, nice ''reproduction'' of what manufacturer will or are supposed

to do. But my arguments are  pointed out in 4 kinds. Each about

specific ''interpretation problem''. A correct discussion should address

all or some of my arguments denying their truth. Mulveling deed not

address a single one. But he expressed his opinion about his, say,

opponent . He also stated to understand Raul ''exactly''. But

without mentioning when and if  Raul ever addressed MY arguments.

You should also address  my argument about ''original parts'',

their identity so we can know which  are available  as styli and

 cantilevers to manufacturers as well retipers. This does

not apply for what individual retipers may have in their stock.

They don't supply other with their styli. So what they own is not

relevant for  availability in general. We were not able to discover

where Replicant  is produced while we assume that this stylus

is not available to everyone. So my general statement that all

manufacturer as well retipers get their styli and cantilevers from

either Namiki or Ogura is still actual. The point then about ''retip''

is why an manufacturer should do this job (aka gluing cantilever/stylus

combo in the joint pipe)  better than an retipper? 

 

 

pinda, Equivalent= equal but not identical. Like Siames twins (grin).

You don't mean that retipers can deliver equal work as the manufacturer,

because this is question about belief , like religion . 

I was stupid not ask mulveling who  is able to understand Raul

perfectly to explain to us what ''refreshing of cartridge '' may mean.

''refurbishing'' will also do . More in particular which parts of an

cart are refreshed and what will happen to those which are not

refreshed?  Then we  will be also in position or state to understand

dover' s ''rebuild''. But this ''term'' may have some deeper meaning.

More religious than religious.

'' Í think that...'' or ''I believe that'' is not an valid argument.

Valid argument is : ''the assertion or argument of my opponent

is not true''. The formula is ''If P then p&q''. That is if the premise

or assertion is true than derivation (deduction) p& q are also

true. But  ''If P is not true than neither are p&q''. 

We don't need to refer to someone psychology . We can simply

refer to statements made by our opponent. 

Those are ''logical rules'' valid for all languages . So the question of

''native language'' is irrelevant. Science is universal which means 

independent from the language of individual scientist. BTW translation

of scientific works is much more easy than literature not to mention

lyrics.

''Straw man'' qualifications are known as ''testimonium paupertatis''. 

 

mulveling, I asked you to explain Raul's ''refreshement  or carts'' in

the context of your statement that you understand him ''prefect'' in

contradistinction to nandric. I have not (yet) seen your answer.

However more problematic for you is the fact that you missed

my point. My point was the fact that he dare to speak about others

''level of knowledge'' while his English suggest that he missed

high school education. Knowledge and (level) of education are

connected. You totally missed my point but he can impossible

missed my point about proving that I was wrong. He knows how 

to refer to his previous post and does this very frequently despite

all of his repetitions so this prove should not cause any problem.

For an low educated person is not very smart to talk about others

''level of knowledge''. It is not possible not to admit as members

plebeians as you and Raul but both of you should know their place.

 

UNIVERSAL versus NUMERICAL QUANTIFIER.

European commission without consulting  27 member states

determined that ALL immigrants have right for asylum procedure.

Despite the fact that each country has it own right to determine the

amount of immigrants in its own legislation.

Immigrants from 12 and on age were smarter than the whole commission.

They all knew in advance to  have no chance to get asylum, But

their intention was to reach Europe and than walking from Greece,

Italy and Spain to the North countries with preference  for Germany

and UK. The consequence is that in each EU country there are

much more illegal than legal immigrants. With added difficulty that

their mother countries refuse to accept them back.

What is the relevance  for our forum?

Well the questions like ''which MM cart is best'', ''which phono-pre

is the best''? etc, ''best ever stuff''. 

Those question use UNIVERSAL quantifier while the possible answer

can be given only in terms of NUMERICAL.

Say Raul with his, say, 50 MM carts can only give his opinion about

those 50 carts (numerical) and not about ALL mm cartridges.

The same apply for, say dover with his, say 12 MC carts. 

But by their answer to the mentioned question they newer mention

the numbers involved. This means that they have no idea about

difference between universal and numerical quantifier. But we got

the answers: ADC 26/27 and  Dynavector 17 d among all the carts

ever produced.

 

edgewear, My problem? I addressed forum problems with self-appointed

''experts'' or ''authorities'' who have no idea what they are talking about.

Is the task of this forum not to provide objective information?

In my introduction of this thread I try to explain which assumptions are

made which are not true. That is ''if premise are not true'' how can

derivation from those premise be true? 

My ''general statement'' or assertion was that only two jewel company

produce styli such that manufacturer as well retipers get they styli

from the self source. JCarr also named only those two. But I also

started the other thread about Replicant in which my own assumption

is questioned. Alas we were not able to discover who produces those

styli as well if those styli are available to all manufacturer and retipers. 

There is old (Roman?) saying ; '' in the land of the blind ,one-eyed is

king''.  You obviously missed my points . I hope you can ''see now''. 

 

 

edgewear, Deed you ever try to sell an retiped cart? As you state 

you are very satisfy with retips done by Van den Hul. Van den Hul

was obviously proud of his work and made his inscription on the

cover plate. This may be seen as act of courage (aka nothing to

hide). But the owners of his carts with his retips can't sell them

because ''retips'' are  considered to be inferior in comparison

with ''rebuild'' or ''refreshed kind'' with the argument of ''original''

versus ''not original'' styli. That is to say that manufacturer use their

 own unique styli. This however is an myth. Manufacturer buy their

styli as do retipers by the same producer. Curiously you are

contradicting  your own ''pro retip'' position by suggesting more

shapes than can be proven. On those shapes patents are claimed

as Van den Hul and Gyger demonstrate. Besides ''original parts''

imply their identification which is connected with identity . Even for

logician an difficult ''subject''.

I try to reduce complexity of identity to ownership relation because

everyone knows what ownership means as well how one can prove

to own something. This means proving one to one identity between

owner and object of ownership. Both must have their own identity.

''Subjective valuation''?  The old Roman already stated ; de gustibus

non disputantum est. 

Besides what sense would asked advises have?  

best-grove, English grammar does not specify the connective ''IS"

between Subject and Predicate in an sentence

But logic does:

1, Substitution of an object under one notion (nandric is human)

2. Inclusion relation between two classes or sets the smaller under

    bigger. Horses are 4 legs animals. Americans are part of the

    world  population.

3, Identity relation : a=b; 2+2 = 4

4  exsitence (being) ''God is''

 

Which ''IS'' do you have in mind?

best-groove, all information in this forum is for free. If you and other

want amusement in addition for free you and the others should look

elsewhere.