''Óriginal parts'', ''identity '' and ''retip'' conundrum


The ''identity enigma'' is easy to explain with ''ownership''. Not everyone is familiar with logic or philosophy but everyone owns something or other.

Ownership assume ''one to one relation'' between an person (legal

bodies included) and one object of ownership. Think of question how

you can prove to own some object. You can also think about question

how to prove to be owner of, say an part of your stolen car.

What the ''force'' of the expression ''original'' is , is an enigma.

However Americans are typical example of   people who are very

fond of ''original parts'' and willing to pay huge amount of money

for the ''precious'' (grin). By the so called ''retips'' the assumption

is also ''original'' versus ''not original parts''. This means that 

every manufacturer as well ''retiper'' uses his own styli and or

cantilevers. The fact however is that they all buy those ''parts''

by either by Namiki or Ogura. So, logicaly speaking, the origin

of those ''parts'' are either Namiki or Ogura. Is gluing an cantilever/

stylus combo in the ''joint pipe'' rocket science?

128x128nandric

Showing 6 responses by dover

Who cares about +15 K carts with 4th level (diamond) cantilevers

and ''gold plated'' styli (grin). 

Well obviously you do, because you seem obsessed with trying to delude yourself that retipping is the same as rebuilding.

You appear to be completely unaware, or unable to accept that if a cartridge is a few years old, then refurbishing should include checking the dampers, checking for any mechanical or electrical issues and addressing them at the same time.

You apparently have learnt nothing from JCarrs post above where he clearly explains that many of the cantilevers/styli can be unique or custom. configured for individual manufacturers.

My Dynavector Karat Nova 13D is a prime example. The cantilever and styli cannot be obtained from anyone other than Dyanvector. In fact I have seen on this forum a well known member trying to flog a Dynavector Karat Nova 13D off with a home-brew aftermarket cantilever. It was no longer a Dynavector Karat Nova 13D as designed ( and looked like a small dog with it's lipstick hanging out ).

It is none of your business what I pay for a manufacturers rebuild, but my decision on whether to rebuild is no different to anyone else

What is the cost of rebuild ?

Can I get a better cartridge for the same budget ?

It is very simple. Its called cost benefit analysis.

And contrary to your misplaced envy, no one needs to spend $1000's of dollars on a cartridge to get a great sound. Currently, despite having the Dynavecto Karat Nova 13D and Ikeda Kiwame ( both purchased new and as new ) I am currently enjoying my old Denon 103D ( bog standard, purchased new some years ago and not used much ). I'm still getting a better sound than most simply because of my system which has been carefully assembled over 30 years.

Don't take my word for it - here's what a visitor said who bought an old DD off me ( who has a Stereophile Class A TT  and several megabuck cartridges - 

https://darklantern.proboards.com/thread/721/direct-drive-thread

The guy I bought it from had one of the best systems I've ever heard, ever!

He had vintage Tannoys, a couple of turntables he demonstrated which I'd never heard of before and can't recall what make. But I do remember how realistic sounding his system was. It was absolutely fantastic and a sound I would love to be able to reproduce. 

I'm pretty sure both turntables were belt drives.  ::)  
 

I'll NEVER forget how that system sounded. So worth every penny. 

Must try to get an invite to have another listen. He was an Audioenz member but not sure if he's signed up here.

Good audio has nothing to do with price, its all about putting together a system properly integrated that is coherent, musical and transparent to source.

 

 

For all of the above it highlights that you can’t beat sending the cartridge back to the manufacturer for refurbishment. Note I did not say retip.

I have had my Dynavector Karat Nova rebuilt 3 times - each time it comes back completely rebuilt (including generator) with new test results for each rebuild - output, inter channel separation, optimum tracking weight etc all documented.

If you look at how the original diamond fits into the cantilever, in many cartridges retipping can never achieve the same level of fit - there will always be more glue than in the original. There is an argument for "should you replace the whole cantilever, diamond assembly" in order to maintain integrity. I don’t think retippers have access to precision micro laser cutters that Namiki possess.

On my original Sumiko Talismans with sapphire cantilever/microridge diamond you cannot see the glue at all. Compare that to the famous Garrott retips that I also have there is significantly more glue.

 

 

Nandric - it comes down to economics and budget.

For the least cost you can get an aftermarket retipper to insert another stylus.

For a few more dollars you can send it to the manufacturer and receive back effectively a new cartridge built to the manufacturers specifications.

In many instances manufacturers will incorporate any new developments.

For example my Dynavector on the last rebuild got a micro ridge stylus instead of the Ogura - it is a vastly better cartridge than when it was originally purchased new.

Even if you paid say 60-70% of the purchase price for a "new" cartridge one could say it is good value.

If you feel the price is still too high I like to pose the question - how much does a golf club membership cost, and yet you can use the cartridge everyday rain or shine.

 

That is why we use ''descriptive names''  like ''iron horse'' for the

first seen locomotive  or ''the teacher of Alexander'' , etc, etc,.. 

A great example of a "descriptive name" is the term   "a dead horse".

An example would be your fantasy that a retipper can rebuild a cartridge to better than new with a cantilever and/or stylus that resembles nothing like the original.

To indulge your fetish within your budget I would suggest you invest in an Audio Technica AT95E and a Paratrace Stylus from the Expert Stylus Company. This will indeed meet your budgetary requirements.

Speaking of dead horses - 

My grandfather had one horse when he built his orchard from remote scrub during the Great Depression. The horse was very obstinate - often when required to cart fruit off to the market it would not move. On some occasions no incentives worked - kicking, whipping, he even lit a fire between its legs once - had to put the fire out.

Finally when the horse became elderly and quite distressed, my grandfather decided to put it out of its misery.

After tethering the horse to a fence, he spend hours digging a deep hole, deep enough to keep the wild dogs from digging it up. 

Pulling out the shotgun, with a heavy heart he shot the horse -unfortunately even in death the horse had the last say. It fell the wrong way.

 

I purchased my current Ikeda Kiwame brand new - it was my third Ikeda after the 9 and 9EM. As new means I have not put many hours on it. It is in as new condition, not retipped, not rebuilt, not refurbished, as purchased ( new).

I have only put a few hundred hours on it. I do not as a general rule buy second hand cartridges ( too many dodgy  sellers on flea bay ).