On the fence about Vinyl need a good phono stage for A/B testing

Shouldn't be a problem. I'm using a Dynavector 20 XL-2 LOMC w/my Luxman. Excellent results smooth quiet and dynamic.

@luxmancl38, Thank you I left a voice mail.

Does AudioTechnica ART9 be a worthy cart for BAT VK-P10SE SuperPak  and or for Luxman CL38U-SE ?.

thanks

Audio Video Therapy in Nashua NH has one left. Phone is 603-888-9777. They are open Tuesday through Sunday. They carry a big selection of Luxman gear. Just ask for John Rein. 

cjaronica:

Thank you.

I went and got myself an used BAT VK-P10SE SuperPak. Going to use the saved coin to upgrade the cartridge and get some good vinyl!.

Down the line I plan to get the Luxman CL38U-SE  / EQ-500 and do some A/B testing with a good cartridge and see if I can actually hear some difference given all things being equal.

Thanks everyone.

Again I 2nd, 3rd the GoldNote PH10 read all the reviews, there's like 10+
If it was just one or two but so many have praised this little gem you should at least see if you can hear one. If I remember Positive Feedback reviewed it 3 times in a VERY short time

@luxmancl38, Where can I find Luxman CL38U-SE ?. I am only able to find Luxman CL38uC ?.

Clearaudio Balanced Reference

cjaronica:

If you don’t mind my asking, what is your $7k stage? Only asking to put your comments about the PH10 into some type of perspective.

Thanks

I have a Luxman CL38U-SE preamp and I can say the phono is outstanding. Dead quiet as the phono has 4 step up transformers. Two for MC high and two for MC low. It uses three 12ax-7 tubes. Art Dudley reviewed it at compared it favorably w/his Shindo preamp. It's currently a rated a Class A preamp. Make sure you get the SE version. Luxman made only 100 units world wide. Also if your looking for a phono the Luxman E-250 is priced around the Parasound JC3+. The 250 also has a mono switch, cart demagnetizer, and a step up transformer. 

I just purchased a Goldnote PH 10 it sounds almost as good as my $7000 rig and is much more versatile !

Geek101:

My pleasure.

audiofun, Thank you. This does put things into perspective for me. I appreciate it :).

Geek101:

you wrote:
”Or what is "the" cartridge for Luxman EQ-500 to be worthy?.”

I am not the arbiter for such things :) I think my Ana Mighty Sound modified Denon 103r (103.3) sounds much better with it. The Audio Technica ART 1000 simply sounds sublime with the EQ 500 and they bring the best out of each other.

I can only write for myself; stating that fact, I’d probably not go for the EQ 500 unless I was looking at cartridges $5k and above. There are always exceptions :)

Now please note, I’m  writing about myself. If you have a cartridge you love and you feel like the EQ 500 or any stage would do it justice then by all means proceed. This is an individual journey and no one can tell you what you like, although I can think of a few on this forum who will attempt to tell you what you should like and why :)

Geek101:

yes, that’s correct. They usually hurt the sound of systems, regardless of what the manufacturer claims. There are threads on this forum where this is discussed in great detail. I usually replace switching power supplies with linear power supplies.

With the iPhono 2 I used three different linear power supplies, the SBooster, a lab Pyramid regulated supply and the Uptone Audio linear supply (it has two outputs which can each be configured for different voltages and used simultaneously) which is like having two units in one. The Uptone costs about $975 but it is definitely the best. I use one now to power my music server which consists of a Mac mini with the SMPS gutted and an iFi iUSB 3.0.

I didn’t intend to change the topic of discussion but I did want to answer your query.

Or what is "the" cartridge for Luxman EQ-500 to be worthy?.

audiofun, SMPS is "switch mode power supply"?. I really feel stupid asking this question what do you mean by "I try my best to keep SMPS’s away from my systems." ?.

Or at least I try my best to keep SMPS’s away from my systems.

FYI, I had a BLab phono stage, about $9k, very nice indeed and better than a number of stages but the iPhono 2 was better to my ears. They were equal in all aspects except timing. The iPhono 2 simply had better PRAT. I was using a linear supply with the IPhono, I don’t allow SMPS anywhere near my three audio rigs.

I find Bat gear a little dark, I had a Rex pre years ago, didn’t keep it long at all. That could have changed as I haven’t listened to Bat gear in years.

The Luxman CL-38uC would probably give you all you need but again if you are just looking for a great stage don’t let the low price and diminutive look fool you, the iPhono 2 has embarrassed some very expensive pieces of gear and at Music Direct you have 60 days to love it or hate it :)

That’s my take on the subject matter. Whatever you decide I really hope you enjoy the end result.

Best

Geeek101:

I think any any of the others you’ve named would be good choices including an iFi iPhono 2.

 Of course it’s your dime and you are free to run whatever cartridge you want with any stage you choose. I just think the EQ 500 will not yield it’s true potential with lesser cartridges therefore why spend the coin, unless you KNOW that at some time in the future you’re going to climb the cartridge ladder :)

audiofun, Would an upgrade to Audio-Technica AT-ART9 be good enough?. Would Luxman CL-38uC be good, an used BAT VK-P10SE or Herron VTPH-2A?. Luxman CL-38uC seems to be more than just a phono stage seem quite a value?. EQ-500 is just a stretch.

Geek101:

Please don’t read this the wrong way. Perhaps you mentioned earlier in the thread that you are planning to eventually move to a higher end cartridge, not that there is anything at all wrong with the 2M Bronze. If you do plan to move up then ignore this post, if not, I would humbly suggest that the EQ 500 may be overkill. 

jperry, thanks yes I live in the SF bay area. I have dealer but I am just thinking ebay for used EQ-500.

I will be running EQ-500 / CL-38Uc / Herron to Legacy Wavelet and from Wavelet to pre-in of Line Magnetic. 

Right now my signal chain is Rega P6 with 2M bronze -> phono stage of Marantz SR7005 ->  Line Magnetic.

You need to adjust the capacitance so the the total falls in the 150 - 300 pF range taking into account the capacitance of your cables as well. So if your cables have a capacitance of 100 pF you would select 150 pF on the Luxman for a total of 250 pF which is in the range of 150-300 pF. 

If you are new to this and you are buying something as expensive as the Luxman you should buy from a dealer and have the dealer help you. If you are in the Phoenix, AZ area I can recommend someone.

You can also run your Luxman or other phono preamp directly into your Line Magnetic integrated instead of through your DAC/preamp which is what I would recommend.

Ortofon 2M Bronze says "Recommended load capacitance - 150-300 pF" which means I have to select 150/300pF on Luxman?. I only see one set of inputs for MM on the back of Herron.

 Both allow you to adjust loading impedance for moving coil cartridges. The Luxman Phono Preamp has a knob/wheel in the front. The Herron uses RCA plugs inserted in the rear of the unit.

The comments re: pF loading is applicable to MM cartridges only

From the Luxman website:
“Optimizing the cartridge load adjustment

The EQ-500 features a load capacity selection function from which 6 levels (0/50/100/150/200/300pF) can be selected according to the characteristics of the cartridge to be used. Com bined with the load impedance selection function (30k to 100k ohms continuously variable) the original potential of the cartridge can be fully exploited”

jperry, lol thanks, What is this "adjustability in loading". Where do I learn more about this, how can I google it. Does  "Herron VTPH-2A" have this?. I don't see no knobs anywhere. This analogue stuff seem like more work!!, but fun!!.

There is more adjustability in loading which will make an audible difference. Whether you hear it is a question I cannot answer. The Luxman CL-38Uc is a preamp with a phono preamp built in not a stand alone phono preamp.

Seems like Luxman CL-38u is a good deal and priced lower, what will I be missing when compared to EQ-500?. Do I really need all the bells and whistles?. Or there are fundamental difference in design in the phono input and output stages between these two?. I am a bit skeptical if I can notice audible difference between these two.

amg56:

Much appreciated.

I love my Quicksilver Audio tubed phono stage. $1500 new.

I just had Ortofon 2M Bronze installed on Rega P6. I am hoping to get some milage on this before even considering upgrading this to something else. Is this a good start?. I am happy to invest in a good long term phono stage but prefer to start with something cheaper and tube(everyone thinks tube is better!)

I am thinking Manley chinook / Herron VTPH-2A but slowly and steadily convincing myself to get a used tube amp like Shindo Monbrison /  Luxman EQ-500 / Manley Steelhead / BAT - VK-P12SE for around 5-7k. 

I really wish I could A/B them in the comfort of my home!. But reality is different.

My amp is Line Magnetic Integrated LM-805IA speakers are Legacy Aeris (on the way), will be using Wavelet room correction. Vast amount of my music is Flac. Just getting started with records!.

I have an Odyssey Audio Suspiro that I would put head-to-head with the Parasound JC3 (at least as far as sound goes, the JC3+'s variable loading is more convenient and offers a few more options for cartridge loading).  The Suspiro matches well enough to most cartridges that it is an absolute bargain considering the cost (around $1250).  I am currently running it with a Hana SL - highly recommended!

The DSP will suck some life out of your vinyl; I would try it with and without.  For me, I am willing to put up with some less than perfect resonances for the sparkling purity of a well reproduced analog signal.  There is a certain emotional thrill and sense of involvement that I get listening to records that just doesn't happen with digital sources (despite the fact that they almost assuredly measure better)).

That said, I have ploughed through a number of phono preamps over the years.  Some of the best were built in to the 60's and 70's era electronics.  If the piece of equipment has a pre-out, they are fun to audition.

Almost any modern phono-pre is going to sound pretty good.  You will get a lot more variety and "bang-for-your-buck" entertainment value messing around with different cartridges.  Before I would haul off and invest a ton of money on a phono pre, I would at least try out some different MM cartridges (Grado, AT, Rega - the Exact would be a good fit).

Moving into MC territory, it is more important to match the phono pre to the cartridge.  Your selection of a phono-pre will be more critical, especially if you are moving up the price chain.

For under $1000 MM cartridges, I would recommend the Schiit Mani, although just about any would do.  At this price point, the subtle refinements of an expensive phono pre will be barely discernible.

Audiofun: Love your system. Agree with you 100%

amg56:

That sounds awesome! I use an ART 1000, London Ref and Ana Mighty Sound 103.3 with the Luxman although the London belongs to the SPL Phonos :)

The ART 1000 and 103.3 sound absolutely stunning with the EQ500.

Geek101:

Not silly at all, it is in the top three or four that I’ve ever heard, and I have listened to more than I can count with some of them costing FAR FAR more than the Luxman. It is quiet, flowing and has excellent timing which is important, a good number of stages completely foul up the timing. The stage is highly transparent with just a hint of lushness/beauty making itself known (you can control this with the rectifier choice as well as the signal tubes). It is not 300B lush by any stretch but it is the polar opposite of the Pass XP25, in a good way (IMHO).

I don’t want to get into the fuse thing but if one thinks about it, all the power coming into the unit is rectified and stored in caps and then released and modulated to the musical/electrical signal generated by the stylus, this is what you are listening to, the power supply. If the first choke point is a chintzy three cent fuse with a crap metal filament (slow blow, Tin, zinc or some alloy) passing the current, a signature is established. Garbage in garbage out. I can honestly tell you that changing the fuses brought about a HUGE increase in the units sonic capabilities.

Nearly all of my components have an AMR MK2 Gold or a Bees Wax Ultimate fuse installed.

audiofun, Thanks and how does Luxman EQ-500 compare to others you have and why should one change the fuses?. Pardon me if it is a silly question. 

If you're thinking about the Parasound JC3+, go with a slightly more costly option: Herron VTPH-2A. I've had a half dozen phono stages over the past ten years including the Parasound and Herron puts them all to shame. With a properly set up TT, the Herron will give an immediate improvement in sound quality. Another nice thing about the Herron, if you make upgrades to your system over time, your phono stage won't be one of them. It is that good.

Oh yeah, it sounds stodgy and thick out of the box, very opaque. It will loosen up at about 100 hours and start to sing around 250 hours. I know many folks exaggerate about components being run-in after like 20-50 hours. I don’t usually have that experience with the gear I buy, it takes time. This goes fast once you pass about 100 hours as it’s more listenable and you are enjoying the component as its becoming better sounding.

Geek101:

I currently own 4 phono stages with a fifth soon on the way. The Luxman EQ 500 is one of them and it is simply one of the best I’ve heard. Change the fuses (a must) to something more ambitious than the cheap glass it comes stock with. I tried Synergistic Blue, hifi Tuning, etc. The best combination by far was one Audio Magic Ultimate Bees Wax and four AMR Mk2 Gold fuses. I also swapped out the JJ EZ81 rectifier for a NOS Mullard I purchased from Brent Jesse.

Absolutely stunning and the flexibity is right up there with the best. I usually listen to it everyday as it compliments my AMR PH 77 very well.

Guru Ralph Karsten of Atma-sphere has posted extensively on this subject. His position, as I understand it, is that the phono stage is critical to vinyl listening. A better phono stage means less noise and fewer pops as well as better resolution.

I agree. When I moved from inexpensive good value phono to ARC, the difference was phenomenal. Did that twice. More recently, my previous DIY phono stage used the best component in most places - it is quite inferior to the present one, which uses the best component in every place.

One thing, though - you may miss the "high frequencies" of digital. This lack is only apparent and not real, as what is missing is the highly audible distortion masquerading as 'speed' and 'attack'. It is akin to the sound of a cheap electrolytic capacitor in the signal path.

You should find the analogue sound to be more relaxing and more conducive to long listening sessions. That's what we (analogophiles) all strive for.

gregb63, dealer calibrated the arm for me and setup the cartridge. What phono stage do you use?.

Seems like lot of people also like Shindo Masseto or even Shindo Monbrison. How do these compare to Luxman EQ-500 / Manley Steelhead / BAT - VK-P12SE all are similarly priced.

First check the VTA on your tonearm

tube phono is the only way to go!! 

Thanks rsf507, great reviews for the price.

Vinyl is a medium that requires and rewards excellent source and phono pre. Go as high as possible here because everything here is amplified, and the phono pre "wakes up" the system. I use tubes and have spent a tidy sum putting together the right combo. My other components have been tweaked but the phono pre has been worked over to the max.
You won’t wonder if it yields significant results, it will be apparent.
I don't make equipment suggestions as I've only had one setup and went all out [for me] when I purchased. My
system is on virtual systems.

Don't want to confuse you geek101 but have a look at the Gold Note PH10, it's very versatile (and has many GREAT reviews).

Hi amg56, did you ever got a chance to compare the Luxman EQ-500 in the same signal chain with other phono stages?.