Tvad,
I think that might cross the line between WAF and GFD (Grounds For Divorce). |
rebbi...sorry for the delayed reponse, but there are speakers that 'confess' their preference of fequency, by recordings such as the moody blues record i refered to. you'll find the ohms' balance makes 'days of future past' a really good listen....it's corny and spectacular. |
"Corny and spectacular!"
I love that! :-) |
I'm new to this forum and just wanted to say I've really enjoyed reading these posts. I've owned the MWTs for 5 years now and still love them. Rebbi, I pulled the trigger after reading the 6Moons review as well. Never been disappointed.
Cheers. |
Jmelvin,
Yes the 6moons review, as well as Mapman and others' enthusiasm here, got me to take the plunge and eventually sell my Totem Arros.
By the way, I read on another website - maybe it was Positive Feedback? - recently that John Potis, the author of that review, had passed away in December. Sad! He seemed like a good guy. He even answered a couple of emails I sent him! |
Rebbi .. when I decided to take a chance on the Ohms there was very little if any discussion like this thread. Good quality stuff here. Will be very helpful to others who are curious but hesitant.
I read about John's passing when I went back to revisit the 6Moons article for some amp/pre upgrade research. Very sad, he was still pretty young. And very well respected. |
I heard about John Potis passing here a while back. There is a thread here on A'gon regarding it.
John Potis answered email questions I had about amps for the OHMs also. He was very helpful and very enthusiastic....seemed like a really good guy. |
I was going to mention John's passing on this thread... His review was the only resource at the time, for me. Like the rest of you, he answered my emails and helped me decide on the Ohms. |
There's actually a very nice tribute to him on Positive Feedback in the current issue: www.positive-feedback.com . |
Would love to hear from Ohm owners .. should I get a new subwoofer? First off I'd like to say I'm very happy with my modest little system right now and have no NEED to change anything. That being said, out of curiosity I've been playing with my old sub (Velodyne CT-120) which I haven't used for music in a long time. Being in a tweeky mood I hooked it up using a Polk ICBM-1 (also left over from HT) and have it crossed at 60. So .. I like what I hear. Mostly, I hear the MWTs doing their magic and when the sub kicks in the sound has more depth and body. Not muddy, but what does one hear below 60?
So really my question is .. will a higher end sub give me significantly better bass below 60 or is this a diminishing returns scenario? The Velodyne is the only sub I've owned and I have no friends who own one so I feel somewhat clueless here. |
Without listening to your system in your room, a "go/no call" call on a subwoofer is tough. If you DO decide to go with a sub, however, I'll offer a piece of advice.
The Velodyne SMS-1 sub controller ($500-600 on line) offers room analysis, PEq, and a flexible x-over which will allow smooth integration (and low end response optimization) of the sub of your choice. IMHO, it's a great tool and - for most set-ups - probably allows a midling sub to outperform a higher quality sub via superior integration. (This is obviously a generalization, but I suspect that, more often than not, this is the case.) I use mine to cross Ohm 100s to a pair of Velodyne SPL 800R subs (which are not great performers by hi-end standards). I am sufficiently happy with the results that I haven't upgraded the SPLRs, even though superior SVS subs are available at modest cost and I have other uses (home theater) for the SPLRs.
BTW, you can always upgrade your subs after the addition of the SMS. Other than the Velodyne DD series (which includes an SMS like function), I know of no sub which offers this type of integration tool.
Just my take.
Marty |
Marty .. thanks, I appreciate your advice. This gives me an approach I hadn't considered. I clearly need to do some more reading. |
Well, it appears that I am soon to be knee-deep in Ohm speakers! I ordered a pair of the 100s today from John. Really, the extent to which they are willing to work to satisfy customers is pretty remarkable! He is sending me the 100s, and told me to hang onto Micros (including both sets of drivers) until I figured out what sounded the best. Then I return what I don't want and my account is adjusted (or not) accordingly. So I have an additional three months to figure out what I want to do.
I did have the opportunity to swap out the drivers on the Micros once again and put the originals back in. After a bit of time listening, I'm not convinced that the difference between the two sets of drivers is that extraordinary. In other words, there is a difference, but it's pretty subtle. Maybe a little less sense of detail... I'm just not sure. But the original drivers certainly don't sound dull or rolled off in the high frequencies, that's for sure.
By the way, Mapman, John explained to me the difference between the two sets of drivers for the micros, the originals and the modified ones. Essentially, the tweeters that come with the 100s are manufactured to output an additional 3 dB of response over those that come with the 100s, because that is what is needed with the 100s. What John did for me was to put the tweeters from the 100s into the Micros. So, essentially, with the 100s, I will be getting the same tweeters as in the modified Micro drivers that John sent, albeit mated to the larger, inverted driver for the 100s.
I did ask him about the possibility of having excessive bass output in my small room. He said that it is much easier to attenuate excess bass response than it is to add bass after-the-fact.
I deliberately asked John to ship them toward the end of next week, since I'm going to be out of town on business for a good part of next week. Of course, as always, I'll report back here when I have some impressions to share. |
Wow, Rebbi, your hooked man and on your way to even better things I'm sure!
If you liked the micros I'm sure the 100s will float your boat even further.
I plug the ports on the bottom of my 100's with loosely rolled up socks to lessen the bass a tad when I have them in my 12X12 sun-room sometimes, otherwise, in my other 12X12 main listening room, I run them unhindered.
I do the same with the rear ports of my Dynaudios as well in that same room.
Adjusting the tightness of fit of the sock plug in the port tunes the low end as needed. Since the ports are on the bottom, nobody ever knows there is anything there. |
Mapman,
Given that I have more and more mismatched socks, I should have no trouble finding suitable bass attenuation devices! :-) |
Rebbi,
When you get the 100s you'll now owe us some reportbacks on the sound differences between MWTs and 100s.
We audio geeks are very demanding fellows! |
|
Hey guys, continued great thread. Rebbi, you are out of control! Just have John send you the 5-series and get it over with!
I came across another radial "walsh style" speaker in the Decware RL1.5, RL3.0 and now the new ERRs. The reviews sound almost exactly like the Ohms in terms of soundstaging and they certainly LOOK like the Ohms--only with better fit and finish. Interestingly, they are designed with super high efficiency in order to allow the use of low wattage single ended triode tube amps (like 2-10 watts). They would certainly do fine with a modestly powered SS amp like the ones mentioned above. I'm curious if anyone has heard these things. They seem to have an allure much like the Ohms. So what do you think, Rebbi....why don't you send for a pair and host the superbowl of radial speaker shootouts? |
Rebbi....why don't you send for a pair and host the superbowl of radial speaker shootouts? Because taking your question seriously ;-) I'm not made of money, as they say. Plus, I'm afraid that the 100's are about the largest speakers that my significant other will tolerate in our little guest room! I mean, John's willingness to keep shipping stuff to a customer and say, take your time and ship back what you don't want... Where else are you going to get that kind of service? At least I know that if in the end I prefer the Micro's I can ship the 100's back and get the $700 difference returned from Ohm (and I'm only out the shipping). But if any other brave soul with some money to burn wants to order the speaks you've mentioned, I'd love to learn more about them, too. :-) |
Hmmm... Just looked at their website. Those Decware speakers are reasonably priced, but the audition period is only 30 days, and custom finishes are non-returnable. |
Interesting that this is the first I have heard of the Decware radials. They haven't come up on other threads that I've read here that I recall.
Not much inforamtion out there on the Decware radial speaks. Their site indicates the older discontinued radial models have been out for at least a few years and there is a newer model as well.
Interesting design though and not outrageuosly priced either, assuming they sound good.
They don't call it a "Walsh" driver or design, but it does appear to be somewhat similar to OHMs from a glance. |
Looking forward to getting the 100's. I'm thinking I should have them in a little over a week. I'll report back after that. |
I fell asleep last night with the music server serving up tunes randomly while listening on my 100s.
I kept waking up realizing how good things have been sounding of late on the Ohms as the Audio Research sp16 tube pre-amp seems to break in further, as the documentation indicated it does.
The combo of OHMs, and ARC tube pre-amp and MF SS power amp is truly out of this world. I cannot find a flaw at present.
I suspect your Unico hybrid integrated will similarly rise to new levels of performance as well with the 100s. |
I spoke with Steve at Decware about the ERR model. He was quite helpful. About eight weeks wait time for ERR speakers in the standard finish.
I am struggling with my room and speaker positioning, so a more forgiving radial/omni style speaker does appeal to me.
Has anyone listened to this speaker? |
NEver heard Decware stuff.
The ERR model is pretty new apparently.
It appears to be geared more towards the low wattage tubed/SET amp crowd, which is interesting. |
UPS says 100 S3's due to arrive on Thursday! :-) Film at 11! |
I'm looking forward to your thoughts.
I'll be getting a set of older Ohm 2s myself this spring.
They're in need of some repair, but worth the asking price...
I just have to drive 200 miles each way to get 'em ;~) |
Barry,
You planning to upgrade them to the latest drivers? |
Not likely, I plan to fix what needs fixing and enjoy them as they are for a while.
But we'll see, this audio thing sometimes runs a little further than we initially plan ;~) |
Yeah, I'm living proof! ;-) |
Me too.
Its all worth it if the result is the ability to thoroughly enjoy your investment in music though! |
Speakers (100s) arrived today but got shipped to my office instead of my home as I'd asked. After hours again, just like happened with the Micro's, except fortunately this time there happened to be someone around to sign for them so they're not just left sitting in front of the building!
Anyhow, I'm out of town for the weekend, so no new speaker trials for me until Monday! *sigh* |
Arrgggh! The suspense is torturous ;~) |
I second that about the suspense.
I'm a few months away from being able to make a purchase, and am undecided between to 100's and the MWT. I'm really concerned about bass, but then again $700 can buy a lot of sub, especially for a small room.
No pressure, Rebbi, but your experience will have a lot to do with the decision. |
I'm curious as well. I've never heard MWTs and this should be the most informative comparison that I know of.
I anticipate the 100s will deliver a sound that is essentially similar but has more authority and meat on the bones, like other much larger, and more expensive designs in a larger room might, at higher, more realistic listening levels, similar to what I have heard in comparing my 100s to Walsh 5s in both my smaller and larger rooms.
For near-field listening at more moderate volumes, I'm not expecting Rebbe will hear much difference worth getting excited about.
Rebbe, for an apples and apples comparison, be sure to compare the standard configuration MWT drivers, not the juiced top end versions that John Strohbeen rigged up for you, if you still have them. |
Oh, Rebbe, be sure to include something with some well recorded pipe organ in the shootout.
When all else fails, the low notes on a big pipe organ will really serve to separate the men from the boys! |
Yeah- the nearfield experience is also vital to me.
I'm only sitting about 5 to 6 feet away from my current speakers (DefTech BP2006's), and really expect the Talls to be the best choice. Additionally, any house we're likely to move to next will have the same size or smaller room- roughly 15 x 12.
Still, it's exciting to wait to read his impressions. |
Hey Parasound:
You might save yourself $400 smacks if John can put the new 100S3 driver in an old Walsh 2 cabinet. The old cabinets are pyramidal and are actually better looking in my opinion. I had a pair and the finish was great. You would never know that the cabinets were used. Call John, he can probably set you up with a pair for $1300. And don't forget that Decware ERR radial for $1395. I'm just dying for someone to post their impressions. Steve Deckart says they are taking orders now and will ship in 10 weeks. |
Marcus/Parasound:
Take a look at my system listing. The Walsh 2's in my system are OHM refurbished Walsh 2s with 100 series 3 drivers.
IF you are handy with a glue gun, you can also pick up old Walsh 2s and trade in the drivers and do the upgrade yourself.
Also Walsh 2s are very easy to refinish if needed. I totally re-did my original Walsh 2s, which I traded in towards the F-5s, years ago.
The fabric on the cover can be redone easily with nice custom fabric to match decor as well.
So you can easily pick up a pair of old, worn Walsh speakers for very little and with relatively little work, upgrade them to look and sound fantastic. Possibly the cheapest road to really great sounding speakers these days out there. |
Marcus-
That's a great idea. But sitting 6 ft back, I'm concerned that the 100's are not as good for nearfield.
I'll be calling John when I'm closer to making a purchase around June or so.
thanks again!
-P |
" I'm concerned that the 100's are not as good for nearfield."
They should be as good or better for Nearfield as well at higher volumes.
The difference may be a wash at lower volumes nearfield.
They just go louder with more meat on the bones which makes them more suitable for listening at a distance in suitably sized rooms without losing anything.
I sit ~ 6 feet from my 100s which are also ~ 6 feet apart in a 12X12 room. |
Well, here we go! The first installment of a shoot-out, if you will, between the Ohm Micro Walsh Tall and the Ohm 100 S3 (Series 3) speakers. This first installment will focus largely upon physical differences.
The 100's shipped in two very large boxes, weighing in at 57 pounds each.
The speakers are extremely well packed the packaging is substantially more robust than on the Micro Walsh Talls. In fact, the unpacking process reveals that the 100's are QUINTUPLE boxed that's right, there are 5 nested boxes in the packaging. Indeed, once the speakers are freed from their packaging, it becomes clear that the packaging itself is far heavier than the speaker it contains. I joked with John on the phone that UPS, their standard shipper, should be pronounced, Oops! (The box on one of my Micros was almost unbelievably mangled in transit but the speaker inside was fine.) John referred to their packaging as a sacrificial offering to UPS."
Speaking of packaging, kudos to John Strohbeen and the boys for utilizing almost 100 percent recyclable packaging materials. Other than a thin layer of styrofoam at the very bottom of the box, everything is made of corrugated or recycled paper fiber.
Unpacking tip: because one of my boxes was somewhat confusingly labeled (the shipping label on what proved to be the bottom of the box rather than the top) I had the experience of unpacking my 100's both from the top and the bottom. My tip: open the boxes from the bottom. It's not only a much easier unpack, but it's easier to keep the spacers between the nested boxes in place and reseat the empty cartons for storage.
Exterior Size: The 100's are, in cross section, 8 x 8 inches, compared to the 6 x 6 inches of the Micro Walsh Talls. They are, with the fabric caps installed, about 2 inches taller, as well. Placed side by side with the Micros, the 100's cut a far more imposing figure, really making the Micro's look, well, microscopic! But taken on their own, they're hardly gigantic, especially in the context of some of the truly behemoth-sized, high-end speakers out there. Interestingly: in terms of height, the wood cabinet of the Micro's and the 100's is exactly the same height. The taller height of the 100's is totally in the size of the cloth cap on top.
Here's the difference: take off the caps and you find that the diameter of the driver can on the Micros is about 4 3/4 inches, with a height of about 5 inches. In contrast, the driver can on the 100's is a whopping (comparatively!) 7 inches in height and diameter. Add to this the fact that there's about an extra inch of clearance between the top of the driver can and the top of the cloth cap on the 100's, and you've accounted for the difference in height.
Another few observations about the drivers. The driver can on the Micros is plain on top. The driver can on the 100's has the Ohm italic logo embossed in it. The mounting flange on the Micro drivers is bolted to the top surface of the cabinets. The mounting flange on the 100s drivers sits in a recessed channel carved into the top of the cabinet. Finally, the cap on the Micro simply rests on top of the speaker. The cap on the 100 has velcro dots on each corner which mate to velcro strips on the top of the 100's cabinet. If you look carefully, this imparts to the 100's a slightly different look than the Micros the velcro causes the caps to hover about 1/8 above the cabinet.
Fit and Finish: It's been noted here and elsewhere that the finish on the Ohm line isn't furniture grade. That may or may not be the case, but the semi-gloss, black woodgrain finish of both the Micros and the 100's looks very sharp to me. I can't vouch for the appearance of the more conventional, woodgrain finishes. There are no obvious flaws in the finish of either set of speakers.
This concludes this initial report. I'll have more to posts after some listening and break-in time. |
What center channel with the 100's for a very modest HT setup? |
Nevermind, I see that Ohm makes a center channel. |
Rebbi,
I just assumed that the quintuply redundant nested packaging of Ohm speakers was intended to ensure that no-one would ever return them. I can tell you that once I finally managed to get mine out of the boxes, there was no way they were going back in!
OTOH, I'm sure the UPS argument holds plenty of water. If crates could tell stories...! In fact the guys at Ohm deserve some credit here: They do manage security without resorting to undue expense (i.e. the aluminum flight cases my Verity P/Es ship in).
Marty |
100's/Walsh 2s are not too bulky and relatively easy to handle and move as needed.
You should see the big F-5s on the other hand. These are heavy and came in 6 separate boxes with serious re-enforcement for the big cabinet boxes. Thank God they sit on casters for easy movement.
Still for the big sound they put out, they are not so big compared to many mega-sized speaker systems out there. |
Everybody,
Well, although I'm not yet in a position to really offer a detailed impression of the 100s, I can definitely say that they sound great and that I'm enjoying the process of getting them set up. I'm finding that although they are not, "hard to place," they are, at least in my room, sensitive to placement. Moving them a few inches either way, closer to or farther from the rear wall, produces marked differences in soundstage and tonal balance. I'm still working with them and imagine that I will continue to do so for quite some time.
To my surprise, my pleasant surprise, their bass feels solid and controlled while not being boomy or overwhelming, even in my relatively small room. Highs are sweet and extended without being harsh, although that sense of brightness does seem to be somewhat dependent upon positioning -- I guess it has to do with how directly you are in the line of fire of the super tweeters.
Do they sound different than the Micros? Yes, indeed. My initial impression is that there is more inner detail, and that, as our friend, Mapman likes to say, "more meat on the bones."
By the way, as far as I can tell, my 80 W per channel integrated amp provides more than enough juice to make these go plenty loud. In fact, at least in my room, I can't really stand playing them much louder than about one third of the volume dial. :-)
More to come as I gain some more solid impressions... |
Wow, what a long and enduring thread. Can't say I've read it all but I thought I'd add a wrinkle. In case you don't know and may be interested, Blue Circle Audio has introduced a new speaker based on the latest Ohm driver. It's called Penny. You can see the details on their web site. Disclosure: I have recently become a Blue Circle retailer (and Green Mountain Audio). This is a home based business in northern Colorado, Departure Audio.
Penny is different from other Ohm models as it uses conventional bass drivers for frequencies below around 90 hz. There are also a few other tricks that Blue Circle is not revealing. Penny's were singing at the last RMAF and sounding quite good. Some final tweaks are being made and the final speaker will be available soon. I will have a pair later in the spring and can't wait hear them in a real world room. Also, how they compare to the exceptional Green Mountain models. Again, just an FYI for Ohm lovers. I don't believe there are any other manufacturers using the ohm driver so this is a alternative for omnis.
Julian |
Interesting about the Blue Circle speaks.
There are other makes using Walsh designs, like German Physiks, but none other than OHM using OHM walsh drivers that I know of.
I'd like to see what is under the hood on those PEnnys. Maybe you could share some pics?
I recall a piece by the late John Potis that indicated that introducing the OHMs in his household to Blue Circle amplification took them to levels never heard before. I have that comment in the back of my mind when I say how I would love to introduce my OHMS to a really good high powered monster amp some day, maybe a larger Class D. I think I could survive easily with the Blue Circle amp as well were I to splurge though! I have this vision of it as the ultimate amp for the OHMs, at least among those that I have read about, based on John's published observation's. |
I found the link to the piece by John Potis that I mentioned:
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/bluecircle_bc8.htm |
