Parasound63,
I think you have the right mindset for how to best locate the OHMs.
You have to play around with different locations, listen and decide what works best for you.
Just avoid location within a foot or two of walls. Some locations will sound great and some just OK, though perhaps few flat out bad.
Also remember to play with toe-out. Toeing the speaks out for more direct effect from the super-tweet can be used to sharpen things up and even compensate for left/right balance issues in some rooms like my L shaped demon. Direct exposure to teh super-tweet will also effectively collapse the sound stage width as well, which may be a positive or negative again depending on room acoustics and personal preference.
I like "Season of the Witch" and other Donovan cuts like "Jennifer Juniper" for example as a reference track for setting up OHMs because it is a spatially sparse and simple yet tonally diverse production where the mix provides just a few sparse yet fairly detailed recording element locations across the soundstage that are easy to focus in on and access discretely.
If things are going well with the overall system setup, this cut sounds spectacularly detailed, spacious and lush on OHMS or any good system for that matter. If not, it will sound quite mediocre and bland. |
Wow, I cant wait till my 1000's arrive as well as my modded DK integrated. |
I like to use the tracks "Season of the Witch" by Donovan as a reference point to get soundstage and imaging focused and bass honed in.
Other tracks on "Donovans Greatest Hits" can then also be used as tests once you tune in using that cut. |
For music, I would say vocals and piano would probablay help you evaluate the sound. For positioning I'd be looking at the position where the soundstage would be the widest and deepest and yet not sacrifice too much low end, but that's just me. |
Rebbi-
I know my last post may have been rambling, but I think we're experiencing a similar thing. For me, they sound great no matter where I put them, but different locations result in different qualities.
I'm fairly comfortable with the idea of moving placement depending on source and desired result. I'm just not used to it. Any other speaker I've every had or heard needed to be in just the right location, and I had to sit in just the right spot. The Ohm's- not so much.
On the other hand, I'm not exactly an audiophile, and my knowledge is fairly limited. So, I'm open to the possibility that an 'Ohm Guru' could show me the 'right' way to place them. But that's why I went with the Ohm's in the first place- they're not sweet-spot dependent for good results.
Once I hook-up my beast of an amp, I think I'll be in a better position to dial them in. But delays in remodelling seem to keep pusing that even back further and further.
-P |
Fellow Ohm'ies,
I continue to tweak my setup, largely with respect to tinkering with the placement of my 100's. I am trying to get the best balance of imaging, soundstage and tonal balance. At the same time, I'm aware that the Ohms are still breaking in.
What's bugging me is that I feel that my experimentation is random, or hit miss. I pull them out from the wall, push them back, toe them in, toe them out... it's kind of like dancing the speaker Hokey Pokey, if you get my drift... And then I lose track of what I'm doing and I'm not sure if what I heard two iterations ago is better than what I'm hearing now. At least I do have my current "best setup" marked with tape on the floor, so I can get back to that.
Another issue: I'm not sure what source material I should be listening to while I do this. Vocals? Something I'm really familiar with?
I guess what I'm asking for is help doing this systematically. How should I start? What am I listening for as I move the speaks in different ways?
Thanks in advance... |
In my experience, I've driven the Ohms with a wide range of electronics:
An Onkyo HT Receiver (lower end @ about 80 wpc)
100 wpc Monoblocks
250 wpc stereo amp
All have driven the Ohms with no problems. But I don't listen at very loud levels (max is usually around 80-85bd sessions) |
Espressogeek, I find them power hungry but very interesting. Tell us more about what you mean by power hungry, if you can. Thanks! |
OK, I spent all day with them today. I find them power hungry but very interesting. I'm going to try and track down a nice Rotel amp as I think that would be a good match for them.
The tonal balance is very nice and Johnny Cash and Diana Krall both sound "right". In my particular room they are fairly responsive to the positioning of the speaker and the imaging can be overwhelmingly wide to very tight depending on how I set them up. The back wall really did just disappear when I first played them. :-)
I'm could sit here and type about them all night but I won't.... yet anyway. I need to spend some more time with them. :-) |
Mail,
I think you're about to try out an apple and an orange - and maybe a banana, to boot. It will be interesting to hear from you on this one.
Marty |
Mailman199: I have a set of Zu Druids that will be here Friday. That's the first of my in home shootout. The Gallo 3.1 will be next. I'll keep everyone informed if you are interested. Absolutely, please post your impressions as soon as you have a few sentences worth and then keep updating them. :) |
Mailman,
Wow, please do keep us posted! Those are some very interesting comparisons you're set to make. |
Just got mine. Pretty good. They do some things great right out of the box. Different than typical box speakers. I have some opinions of them already but I don't want to say until I've given them a chance to really settle in and have compared them to some other speakers for reference. I sold my Arros too soon to compare them. I have a set of Zu Druids that will be here Friday. That's the first of my in home shootout. The Gallo 3.1 will be next. I'll keep everyone informed if you are interested. |
Foster_9,
Sounds beautiful... enjoy! |
What size room, by the way? And what finish on the speaks?
Rebbi (Threads | Answers) Rebbi, my family room is rectangular (stuffed with furniture) 11X18X8. The Walsh 5 S3 speakers will be on a short wall on each side of a fireplace. They have the rosewood finish. |
I'm not sure if this is acceptable technique or not, but this is something that's working for me.
Obviously, I'm obssessed with bass response, and I've noticed that the Ohm's are faithful to the source material. If the recording is lean on bass, the Ohm's reveal it. My past speakers tended to make most recordings sound the same- but not the Ohm's.
Anywah- they are light enough and easy enough to move that I can adjust bass, soundstage and imaging by moving them. Closer to the back wall, more bass but smaller soundstage. Move them out, less bass but WIDE soundstage and the 'floor-to-ceiling' effect.
I don't know if this is crazy or not, but for me it makes more sense than boosting EQ and adding distortion.
Any thoughts?
-S |
You can also adjust the treble by adjusting the "toe-in" (I assume the MWTs are similar to my 100s in this respect). Be sure to experiment a bit before settling on final placement/orientation. Agreed with Martykl on this one. Although the Ohms (both the MWT's and the 100's) are fairly forgiving with room placement, their tonal balance will be substantially affected by toe-in, especially in the upper frequencies, and by proximity to rear wall and corners, as far as bass is concerned. You'll also want to play with positioning to obtain the best imaging and soundstage. With the right source material, the Ohms are astonishing in that regard. |
Espresso- that's awesome! It's very exciting to read about all the folks buying Ohm's. I hope everyone posts every detail about their experiences with them. Yeah... as the original poster in this thread, I have to say that I've gotten a kick out of all the folks who've been inspired to try Ohms as a result. Soon we'll have our own discussion board somewhere. :-) |
Para,
I happened to buy a pair of CRMs the same week I bought my Ohm 100s - as well as a pair of Maggie SMGs. Ohms are omni, Maggies are dipolar, Sunfires are bipolar. I was trying to figure out whether a different (vs the front-firing speakers I had been using at that time) dispersion pattern might work better in my difficult new listening room.
IMHO, the Sunfires lagged the other two by a long, long measure. Could be the speaker, or the room or simply personal preference. But I'd take the Ohms over the CRMs even if I kept my head in a vice when listening.
Marty
BTW the CRMs are doing admirable duty (along with a small subwoofer) as external speakers on the digital piano in my living room. |
Espresso- that's awesome! It's very exciting to read about all the folks buying Ohm's. I hope everyone posts every detail about their experiences with them.
-P |
No doubt. All I'm saying is that, compared to other speakers I've heard or had, the tonal shift is minimal. Not to mention imaging and soundstage, which completely collapse with most speakers I've heard as soon as I stand up or even move to scratch an arm or something. :)
Actually, the single best-sounding speaker I ever heard while audition was the Sunfire CRM-2.. The sound still haunts me. However, moving anywhere outside the axis of the drivers and everything seemed to collapse. The sound was good, but the magic was gone.
With the Ohm's, it's simply not the case. At least not to the extend that I've experienced with any other speaker.
Oh yeah- for what it's worth, I do seem to get a bit more 'air' when I toe them slightly out and have the tweeter cross further into the room. |
I have a pair of MicroWalsh Talls in Rosewood on their way to me. I am very anxious and curious about how they will sound in my family room. |
Parasound,
PErhaps to a lesser extant than with most speakers, room acoustics and other factors probably come into play regarding tonal shift from various vertical listening locations.
The Walsh drivers do inherently fire more upwards than down though, I believe. |
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I've had the opposite reaction so far with my MWT's- an almost toal lack of tonal shift unless I sit on the floor. Even then, to me it's minor
I account for this due to the speakers I had before: Definitive Technologies BP-2006 and Pinnacle Classic Gold Reference, both of which had significant tonal balance shift based on position.
As an aside, I got to hear my old Def Techs last night. The guy I sold them to and I have become friends, and listen to music together every now and then. I miss the bass, but that's about it. They sounded unnatural and fuzzy. They really seamed to smear high-treble, especially cymbals. He loves them though, and I'm glad they went to a good home. |
Mail,
You can also adjust the treble by adjusting the "toe-in" (I assume the MWTs are similar to my 100s in this respect). Be sure to experiment a bit before settling on final placement/orientation.
Congrats on the new additions.
Marty |
Yes, I can typically tell a slight difference in tonal balance when listening for it from a higher listening position above the cabinets (brighter) compared to a lower one. |
Got my new MircoWalsh Tall's yesterday. So far they are pretty good. I'm still breaking them in and getting used to their presentation. I have noticed that when I stand up the imaging gets considerably better and the top ended get sharper, not bright, just more transparent. Anyone else noticed this? |
Wow, Foster, awesome! Can't wait to hear about them. Nice amp, too... I'll be curious how they "get along" with your new Ohms. What size room, by the way? And what finish on the speaks? |
I have a pair Walsh 5 S3's that will soon be on the way. Pairing them with a Blue Circle BmPH. I'm hoping this will get me off the merry-go-round. |
RR,
Just to be clear, the OHMs utilize dynamic drivers as well.
It's the Walsh driver design and concept that make them both unique and different.
Here is a blurb with some background on the Walsh driver concept beyond what you might find on the OHM site:
http://www.hhr-exoticspeakers.com/documents/thelincolnwalshstory.pdf |
"It seems like the Ohm presentation would be quite different, but I wonder if I would like it better than what I have. I guess there's only one way to truly find out..."
Agreed. |
Rockinrobin: Along with the Ohm 100's, the Songtower is a speaker that is on my list for consideration of a speaker upgrade. If you end up auditioning the Ohms against your Salks, I'd love to hear your thoughts! |
I've got a pair of Salk Songtower RT's (QWT two-way floorstanders) currently that I am quite happy with. But I have to admit... this thread has me really interested in the current Ohm speaker lineup! I may buy a pair of 100's to see how they differ from my current more traditional dynamic driver speakers. It seems like the Ohm presentation would be quite different, but I wonder if I would like it better than what I have. I guess there's only one way to truly find out... |
John is great - I sent him specs of a few different amps, and he gave me advice on how each one would do with my MWT's. It's really fun being able to get direct advice from the designer, I couldn't think of dealing with any other speaker company. |
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. According to John, that's what I can expect.
Which brings to mind something else that is worth metioning again. Buying the Ohm Micro Walsh Talls gave me something more than a great speaker. It also got me something of an advisor as well.
I went with the MWT's due to size, WAF and the fact that I move a lot. John at Ohm supported the decision, but pointed out that the 100-S3's would probably be the better fit for what I want overall. I have no doubt that he's right. But he also took the time to explain what would happen, in each scenario, from placement to toe-in to amplification. He also advised me on the difference between my Harmon Kardon AVR-20 and the Parasound HCA-2205 that I will ultimately be using (Friday even if the room is not finished.
In every case so far,what he said would happen did indeed happen. That gives me reason to assume that future advice will also be accurate.
I'm not saying that one should call him and waste his time with endless questions and opinions. I am saying that he you're truly serious about buying his product, he is an honest broker and an accurate advisor. No one is perfect, but he's darn close in my book.
-P |
Hey P - Interested in hearing the results with the Parasound gear. When I switched amps last year, the bass got a lot deeper. In my room (12x25), I pretty much have enough bass - maybe I'll try hooking up my sub to find out, but I think the neighbors will have a problem with it... |
Glad you're enjoying them so much. You've got the idea; set up properly, the Ohm's just get out of the way of the music. :-) |
For what it's worth, here's my latest update.
Right now, I'm just listening to music more than I'm 'listening' to the Ohm's. I simply enjoy listening more than I have in years, and the speakers seem to stay out of the way. I don't know a better way to put it.
In comparison, the DefTechs (BP2006) that these replaced seemed to always get in the way of enjoying things musically. I was always aware of them, and never entirely happy.
Next phase for me is hooing-up my parasound equipment and hearing what these sound like with 220 watts and high current. After that, a sub for movies.
-P |
Sorry all. Someone stole my phone number (I'm serious), and I have no internet at home until we get it resolved.
All I had time to do this long weekend is watch a movie. they're not kidding on the Ohm site when they state that a sub is needed for movies. Even my wife commented on it (she's getting spoiled, and notices when something doesn't sound right)
Musically, they exceed all expectations. Surprisingly, in the bass. If bass is within their range, it is satisfying and substantive. Below their cutoff frequency, and bass is non-existent. |
Parasound,
How are those MWT's working for you? We need a report! :-) |
Finally got some listening time in this morning!
The vinyl of Bonnie Raitt's "Nick Of Time" sounds glorious on the Ohm 100's! The title track, as well as "Cry On My Shoulder," are really a treat. |
right now I'm listening to Deep Purple 'Made in Japan' I am definitely drawn to live music with the Ohm's.
I had an issue with imaging last night while watching TV. Dialogue was coming from both speakers rather than placed in the center.
Took measurements a while ago, placed them in an equilateral triangle from our listening position (about 6') and wala!- dialogue in the center.
Best bass is still about 6" off the wall, but then soundstage collapses a bit because they are behind the TV and stand. Hence, a sub could be in the future, but still not a necessity.
More later.
-P |
These recordings by Yes are very good for separating the contenders from the pretenders in the world of audio playback of rock music.
On a different track genre-wide, try some remastered recordings of largely forgotten old Kingston Trio tunes on the Walsh's and then let's talk.
The one I can recommend if you can find it is "Absolutely The Best Of The Kingston Trio".
"Reverend Mr. Black" (LOVE that tune!), "Scotch and Soda", "Reuben James" and the others are a sterling treat from a different age of music and recordings with stunning sound quality, vocals, and harmonies that are hard to match.
I may have a bias in that some of the first records I ever listened to repeatedly as a young kid were by these guys and they definitely had a major impact on me musically at a young age.
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Regarding the music of Yes, you might want to get hold of the CD reissue of Fragile on the Rhino label. It features an "early mix" of Roundabout that I actually like much better than the final mix. It's so interesting to hear what they were thinking of doing with that tune before they got to the final mix down... trust me that it sounds wonderful on Ohm speakers. :-) |
Yes! Mapman, we've emailed several times and I had no idea you were into Yes. Yes is one of my all time favorite groups! For me "Yessongs" has been the holy grail Yes recordings sice the 70's when I was introduced. I will eventually have a pair of Walsh 5 Series 3 with upgraded drivers and I am looking forward to listening to Yes on them. (in addition to my hard bop) |
Awesome P! I remember playing some old Yes on my Micros and hearing the music in a different way than I had ever heard it before. |
Yes, I can vouch that Yes does work well on OHMs!
Try the remastered version of "Drama" for some really awesome Squire bass!
The Yes album, Close to the Edge, and Fragile are very good too. |
Hi all!
There seems to be a curse with these speakers- I've had almost no time to just listen to music!
But I am right now. 'Starship Trooper' off of Yessongs. I have never heard Chris Squier's bass sound so full and tactile before. I can hear the pick on the strings. Everything seems so balanced and present. I'm even gushing enought to write that they sound bright AND warm at the same time- depends on the instrument and recording situation, I guess.
I don't believe in break-in per se, and suspect that's more a function of becoming used to a particular speakers' crossover, coloration and distortion. I have absolutely no complaints about muffled treble or bass.
Speaking of bass, that's the thing that I find most unreal. I quit looking for a sub about 15 minutes after hook-up. No need in my room, at this time. If one falls in my lap for an insanely low price, I won't hesitate, but it's certainly not required at this point.
Best bass and sound seems to be about 1 foot off the rear wall. Pants don't flap, but I feel it in my chest.
Oh! And I'm not even using my main system. A humble Harmon Kardon AVR-20 is driving them. These just shouldn't sound this freaking good!
-P |
Many hot chicks dig Spock though... There's some perfect comeback for that, Mapman, but for the life of me I can't think of what it is.... :-) Parasound: glad you're loving them so far. Post more. I've still had very little time to listen to music, so I'll live vicariously through you for a bit. :-) |
