Ohm Walsh Micro Talls: who's actually heard 'em?

Mapman and Winegasman,

Wow, thanks for all that information. That's really cool. Did either of you get a hint of when the new models will be rolled out?

This must be an exciting time for Ohm, and I hope they sell thousands of the new speakers.

Myself- I'm totally happy with the MWT's, and won't be trading them in any time soon.

If my next house has a large enough room, I will certainly be buying the 1000's (or any other model, depending on room size)

-P

I received the email below the other day announcing the new line:

"Hi Folks,

We are back to work and starting to produce our next generation of Ohm Walsh speakers. The sound has made evolutionary improvements; the maintenance-free lifespan has been extended; plus the cabinet styling and finish have substantially improved.

All current Ohm Walsh speakers sound pretty much the same when used in the size room they are designed to be played in. Instead of a Good-Better-Best line-up where you get better sound for more money, we make the best we can for small, medium and large rooms. In this generation, we have tighten up the deep bass, "sweetened" the highs with new super-tweeters an made the voices a bit more intelligible, particularly on dialog.

The pure-foam surrounds and damping materials have limited most vintage Ohm Walsh speakers to a 10-20 year maintenance-free lifespan. In this new generation, we have moved to different materials with much longer lifespans: 40-50 years in some models! Additionally, most models now use cast metal frames for greater stiffness and strength.

The styling has been finalized with a softer, gentler, more graceful look:

1. All will have rounded vertical edges, rounded plinths, and rounded grills.
2. All veneer choices are at no extra cost.
3. Each cabinet gets at least two additional coats of hand-rubbed finish.
4. Photos will be coming in a few weeks when our website is updated.

The recommended room sizes (width x length x height) have been finalized:

* MODEL ROOM SIZE (volume)
* MicroWalsh SE 600-1000 cu.ft
* 1000 800-1600 cu.ft
* 2000 1300-3000 cu.ft
* 3000 2400-5400 cu.ft
* 4000 4500-8500 cu.ft
* 5000 800-8500 cu.ft

The pricing has been finalized:

* MODEL PRICE (per pair)
* MicroWalsh SE $1400
* 1000 2000
* 2000 2800
* 3000 4000
* 4000 5500
* 5000 6500

These prices are for the floor-standing, full range versions. We will also be offering versions for Home Theater applications (center, sides and rears) in both floor and wall mounted styles. Matching powered subwoofers will be available to provide systems providing both audiophile music reproduction and dramatic movie effects.

The Ohm Walsh speakers still provide the widest Sweet-Sweep, where precise stereo imaging can be heard, of any speakers in the world as well as some of the most natural, intelligible voice reproduction in music and dialog. You do not have to sit in just one spot to enjoy an exciting stereo soundstage.

Introductory Sale: For orders taken in July and August, S&H will be only $50 per pair anywhere in the lower 48 states.

Up-Graded older Walsh speakers are available at great prices. Save 20-40% and get the new sound on recycled, refurbished cabinets. Various models and veneers available.

All Ohm speakers are made in Brooklyn NY and we are proud of it!

Please call me personally to discuss your needs and options.

Good Listening!

John Strohbeen, President, 800-783-1553



For more information, please visit our WebSite: http://www.ohmspeakers.com

Click here to unsubscribe. We do not believe in SPAM and do not offer our list to anyone else."

I spoke to John at Ohm about the new speakers. Having picked up a pair of 100S3s about 8 months ago, I was concerned/interested in the introduction of a newer line of speakers. Here's what I learned from him –– the 100S3 falls in-between the new 1000 and 2000 models in both size and sonic quality. (Since the 1000 will sell for $2,000/pair and the 2000 for $2,800/pair, that makes it sound like the 100S3 at $1,800/pair was a good bargain!) If you trade in the 100S3 (or any older model), Ohm will give up to a 100% credit towards a new model. I can trade in the 100S3s for the Model 2000 and get 100% trade-in value. The 100S3s will not have a 100% trade-in value toward the Model 1000, but it will be close.

As usual, you get a 120-day trial period with any of the newer models, so you can have them for A/B comparisons with present speakers. Ohm charges you for the new pair. If you return the new ones during the 120-day period, you get full refund (less shipping). If you keep the new ones and return the older ones, you are given a credit refund for the (usually) full purchase price.

He also explained that the newer driver is cast, while the older ones were stamped. I'm lost on that. The sonic changes, which is what I'm interested in, will be minimal. The main change is cosmetic - the rounding of the edges of the cabinets, made possible when they figured out how to make a round frame for the cloth covers.

The trial period seems like a no-risk way to decide if the new model is worth it. Once I get moved into my new house, I just may order a pair of 2000s to try!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crazy_Eddie

Mapman - Not only do I remember Crazie Eddie's, I knew how to read the price codes on the shelf price cards.

Yeah, and Crazy Eddie was eventually shut down by the Feds for some kind of fraudulent business practices, I think.

They are beta models, I dont have much to compare them to coming from high end headphone world and some old NHT 2.5's but they are not going anywhere. I will post some pics of my setup.

"Does anyone know if the prices will go up for the next version of the 100? (I hope not.)"

I think I read on the web site that they will as they roll out the revamped drivers.

I also did a stint at a Lafayette store in Pennsylvania in 1978 just prior to Tech HiFi, my first paying corporate job. No CDs yet then. Lafayette, BIC, Garrard and a few other tables though. My first component system was all Lafayette/Criterion.

Diebenkorn: Thanks for the comments. Please feel free to post more impressions as you listen further.

Does anyone know if the prices will go up for the next version of the 100? (I hope not.)

Mapman - Not only do I remember Crazie Eddie's, I knew how to read the price codes on the shelf price cards. As their "insane" ads stressed, they would beat any price. Of course, most consumers would just assume the shelf price was the lowest price and pay it. Big mistake. Those who did shop around would present their competitor's ad before asking if the item was in stock. Big mistake #2, since Eddie's would suddenly be out of stock if you had a good price to beat. I would first ask the salesman if the item was in stock, have him write up the sale, and call the stockroom to have it brought up to the check out. Only then would I produce the ad with a lower price. I did this many times.

I myself worked for a while at Lafayette Radio on 45th Street while I was in college. They were already owned by Circuit City, and sold all mid-fi stuff. The best was probably Mirage speakers. I remember looking at the first CD player they sold - a Hitachi, IIRC - with a price tag of about $1000.

Sorry to everyone for drifting OT!

1000s?

Are those the latest and greatest 100s? I hadn't seen that these were available yet.

Been listening to my new Ohm 1000's (Italian rosewood) they are really great. This thread was very helpful in helping me make decision. Great top and low end and seems very neutral as well.

Marty, that sounds like a fair accounting.

Also there were many one off dealers that were not part of a larger chain.

I sold to a lot of college kids with limited budgets at Tech HiFi. Their choices were often either just refurbs from Tech HiFi or Crazy Eddie. Most else was too expensive for most.

Then I graduated college and got a real job. Those days selling audio gear were fun though. I'd love to do it again someday.

Crazy Eddie was the discounter. Tech Hi-Fi was the "specialty store". "Harvey Electronics" was the boutiquey store and Lyric was the "vault" that wouldn't let just anyone in to hear the Maggie Tympani.

As I recall.

Marty

Bondman,

TEch Hifi's big competitor I recall in the NYC metro area was Crazy Eddies. Remember them?

Ah, Tech HiFi! That's where I got my first speakers - Advent New Large Utilities - in 1978. They were on sale for less than $200 ($179/pr?), IIRC. This is back when Tech HiFi, Sam Goody, Rabson's and other mid-fi retailers were big businesses, and often advertised in newspapers. It was a newspaper ad that alerted me to the sale price for the Advents. When's the last time you saw ads for hifi gear (other than Bose) in a newspaper? Boy, times have changed! The Advents are still in service in my secondary den system, with original foam surrounds. Thanks for the memories, Mapman!

When I worked part time in college at Tech Hifi, of the brands we sold I recall liking the EPIs or Epicures 2nd best, close behind OHM, tied with Advent, over JBL, Infinity, Electrovoice, Cerwin Vega (yuck!) and a few others.

A friend had some EPI's back in the late 70's. Had them on stands. It was the first stand mount I'd seen. I really loved those speakers and envied him. They were the best I'd heard to that point.

Rebbe,

I seem to recall the Eps had the same kind of tweet back in 1978.

Eps I heard were OK as I recall, a little "recessed" sounding perhaps (no pun intended) but you all already know what my favorites were even then, right?

You guys must be much older than I am! LOL!

My first "real" speakers were Epicure 10's that I bought in college. They had this funky, inverted dome tweeter...

Foster,

Coincidentally, the speakers I had before my first OHMS in 1978, the OHM Ls, were Lafayette Criterions which I think was made by ESS and had the Heil tweets as well.

Mapman, I went to buy a pair of C2's back in the 70's; had money in hand. Got there and the dealer was out of stock and some kind of strike somewhere meant they didn't know when they would get more C2's. I was very disappointed and had no patience. Went directly to another shop down the street and bought a pair of ESS Heil AMT instead. Those ESS were very nice but I always wondered what I was missing in the C2's.

Waxing poetic Parasound! You're a lucky fella to feel that way.

"But it's like falling in love with my wife- it seems there's always something new to experience"

Wow. This IS getting serious!!

LOL!!

I'm finally experiencing the imaging and soundstage capabilities, and it takes a bit getting used to.

I'm used to 'monkey coffins' that image instruments and vocals precisely in the middle. Very, very artificial. A real guitar will revel its location, but the sound is not locked into a sweet spot. All this means is that I'm used to speakers that behave this way.

The Ohm's do not. They do this weird disappearing act, in which the soundstage seemingly overtakes the whole room. A solo acoustic guitar or vocal isn't locked-in to a specific position, but more-or-less inhabits space between the speakers. But if something is recorded to the extreme right or left, it can be a startling experience.

There's also no compression. What I mean is, bad recordings sound bad, great ones sound awesome. I'm still used to box speakers making EVERYTHING sound ok.

I love every characteristic I'm referring to. But it's like falling in love with my wife- it seems there's always something new to experience. And get used to...

-P

Another amusing way to look at it:

Athletes have their juice and we OHM owners have ours!

BTW, the OHMs have been around for a long time and lots of non-audiphile type people still own them. I bought my first Walsh 2s in a typical, not "high end" audio store in 1982 for ~ $600 retail I believe.

My point is that there are a lot of people out there who could afford and own OHMs that probably never heard or cared to hear them optimally driven by larger, high quality, high current power amps. They sound much more ordinary driven by ordinary or average systems. A lot of audiophiles that have heard the OHMs over the years may have never heard them run optimally, hence the more mixed press that they have received over the years!

"And yes- it seems that Ohm's like a lot of current. I also notice it in the mid-range region. The only word that comes to mind is 'smooth'."

Good point.

In addition to low end impact and "mojo" due to moving more air, higher current also does seem to result in better overall smoothness top to bottom I believe.

Hi Current is like a 20 mph wind rotating a windmill on Earth with denser atmosphere.

Low current is like the same velocity wind rotating the same windmill on Mars with sparse atmosphere.

Regarding impact and authority, the same velocity wind will also knock that hat off your head a lot faster in earth's denser atmosphere. Also big hats (bass) requiring more pressure to move will be affected more. The smaller hats (midrange)are more susceptible as well. The tiny hats (treble) stand no chance.

Thank you Rebbi! As my system developments continue with the 5000's I'll post updates to this outstanding Ohm thread. (the most informative anywhere!)

Thanks Foster. That was worth the wait

My master plan is to get the 100's after I move to Virginia next year (assuming I have a large enough room) and run the MWT's for surrounds. OR- get another pair of MWT's.

In either case, I'm pretty excited about what I read about the new drivers.

And yes- it seems that Ohm's like a lot of current. I also notice it in the mid-range region. The only word that comes to mind is 'smooth'.

Foster_9,

Thanks for the very interesting report! I'm delighted to hear that you're having such a good experience with your new speakers.

John told me a few months ago that EVENTUALLY (as in, within a year or so) driver upgrades to the new generation would be available for the rest of the Ohm Walsh line... I think he said they'd become available from the top of the line on down. I'll look forward to getting those upgraded drivers in my lowly 100's, too! ;-)

Hi Parasound, like you I've abstained from posting about my experience with the Ohms during this interim period. I've waited while they settled in. I've been moving them around a bit, adjusting the controls, and changing speaker cables, while waiting for them to reach their potential in my room. I have the Walsh 5 S-3's with prototype 5000 drivers. Mine were additionally modified by Ohm (John) for increased highs (treble and air). I never heard the Walsh 5 S-3 speakers before Ohm went to the 5000 drivers so I can't compare their performance to the previous Walsh 5 S-3's, but I've finally concluded these speakers are the best I've had in my house.

My Walsh 5 S-3 5000's (that's what I call them) excel at detail, high end, air, and midrange accuracy. The bass has not reached its potential in my room yet, but is also detailed, accurate, fast, with some weight. Using my current integrated amp and in this room, as yet they aren't playing with as much bass weight as they can. In my opinion my Blue Circle BmPh integrated is not sending the 5000's quite enough current to really move maximum air in the mid bass and low end. I'm in the process of getting a new integrated with more current and power that doubles down. Then I'll see (hear) what the 5000's can really do in the low end. Even now though I'm very happy with the 5000's because they're very resolving, with lots of detail and air and and now I appreciate what others have said about "the magic being in the midrange." Never heard such excellent, clear and detailed midrange performance before. These speakers are as clear as a bell. I'm sure the best is yet to come. I can highly recommend these latest generation drivers from Ohm.

Foster-

Any updates?

HI all. I obstained from writing any more on this thread until I hooked up my main amp- a Parasound HCA 2205. Well I did, so I'm back.

First of all, my hat's off to the Harmon Kardon AVR-20, which helped to break them in and give me a sense of the overall sound and placement.

However, with more power, and importantly more current, my MWT's blow me away. At lower volume, the sound is rich and full. At higher volume, above 80 Dbs, I felt that the highs were a bit forward with the HK, but everything sounds nice, even and balanced with beter amplification.

To be fair though, I'm also using the burr/brown DAC's in the AVC-1800 instead of my cheap and old Sony DVD player.

At any rate, I'm done with this phase of my upgrade. Next up is replacing my DVD player. And then I really am done for a while...

The MWT's continue to exceed expectation. It seems I rarely feel that way about anything these days. The Ohm's decimate my Deftech BP-2006's, and I feel that it's the best possible upgrade I could have made, especially for the price.

-P

Oh, and the prices for the upgraded classic OHM C2s and Hs appear to be only $100 more than those models sold for new back in the 70s. That would seem to indicate a good value. I preferred the OHMs over all other lines we carried back then including Advent, Infinity, EPI/Epicure, JBL, and Electrovoice.

Hs would probably knock your socks off these days with a good modern amp. Those babies rocked!

Nice.

I see they have a link to an ebay store there also with some refurbed box designs like Hs and C2s, which I would love to hear. I almost went down the refurbed H path before I tried the Walsh2 S3s. H's were my favorites back when I used to sell OHMs in the late 70s. in the days of the OHM Fs and prior to the Walsh line (the store I worked i did not carry the Fs so I never got to hear them).

Here's something interesting. Looks like Ohm is starting to sell some refurbs on eBay. Here's what looks like their first listing:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pair-of-Ohm-Super-Walsh-2-S3_W0QQitemZ260390714863QQcmdZViewItemQQptZSpeakers_Subwoofers?hash=item3ca07efdef&_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Mapman, sent you an email regarding the Ohms.

With reverence to the previous owner, I went ahead and purchased the late John Potis' pair of Ohm Walsh 4.5.2 in a trade/purchase arrangement. I will try the 4.5.2's as L/R in my HT set up with the KEF center and surrounds to get a base line opinion. Later on, I will move the MWT's into the surround position and drag my KEF R107's into my 2-channel rig and see what happens with full range in my living room. Lots of possibilities here with a lot of lugging of large full range speakers up and down stairs but, after all, why are we here if not to experiment with all the options that we are presented with. I hope to comment on the various stages of my search for sonic satisfaction and share my expeeriences with all of the other Ohm afficianados my impressions. It's the journey not necessarily the destination! Thanks for your help. Best...

Nolo,

MWTs would make excellent surrounds I think.

For surround sound, be sure to go over the options with JS. Though we don't talk about them much here, there are large/small/short/tall/wall mount Walsh models designed specifically for home theater use I believe.

I believe OHM can also do various tweaks to the basic design for home theater use if desired.

Thank you Mapman for the comments. I'm usint the MWT's in the 2 channel rig and have a notion to go with an outboard processor with a blue ray player to take advantage to the high res possibilities, but I have a dedicated HT room with the KEF system. The MWT's sound so right, like live music and, as a musician, I am all over that concept. Maybe I should just keep the MWT's as is and look down the road at a more full range Ohm surround setup. By the way, I'm just outside of the, so called, nearfield sweet spot at about 8' listening distance with a L/R separation of about 6.5' due to room constraints. I'll play around more with toe in but, they sound pretty terrific face forward. Thanks for keeping the comments coming!

Marty, thanks for the Underwood lead. I will check them out. I am in Hawaii so its still a phone call and freight but some good used equipment is fine.

I understand the 45 wpc comment. I think the old Mac MA 5100 is actually doing a decent job at lesser volumes. BUT, that said my sense from the different postings and a couple of emails to John at Ohm is that I would be much more satisfied with more headroom, overall power, current etc. I am a little conflicted on tubes vs SS especially as I really liked the sound of the Mac tube amps I heard back in DE near my in-laws but those are out of my short term reach financially if I want to stay married. So I am thinking interim 6-12 month solution.

Thank you Mapman for the comments. I'm usint the MWT's in the 2 channel rig and have a notion to go with an outboard processor with a blue ray player to take advantage to the high res possibilities, but I have a dedicated HT room with the KEF system. The MWT's sound so right, like live music and, as a musician, I am all over that concept. Maybe I should just keep the MWT's as is and look down the road at a more full range Ohm surround setup. By the way, I'm just outside of the, so called, nearfield sweet spot at about 8' listening distance with a L/R separation of about 6.5' due to room constraints. I'll play around more with toe in but, they sound pretty terrific face forward. Thanks for keeping the comments coming!

Nolo,

That is a very excellent sounding setup for the MWTs!

Would you be expanding that somehow to surround by adding amps and processors I'm assuming? If possible, I'd do that (keep with amp separates) rather than move to a surround receiver. That would most likely be a step backwards in terms of getting the most out of the OHMs.

I'm not a surround kind of guy, but if I were, I'm pretty certain I would prefer to build around OHMs and the wide range omni Walsh drivers in them. It seems a natural fit.

4.5 mkIIs are Walsh 5 mk II drivers (which I have never heard) on OHM 4 cabinets, right? I think this is the model that reviewer John Potis owned, reviewed, and praised.

Assuming this, from what I have read, yes, it should be a big step up for non-nearfield listening in a larger room in terms of impact and overall weight to the performance.

mkII drivers use a different tweeter than S3s I believe but the full range Walsh drivers are the same or mostly similar as I understand it. There may be a slight difference towards the top end as a result but mkIIs can probably be had for less. Its probably a very reasonable tradeoff, especially for home theater use.

I've been enjoying this post for some time and took the plunge and bought a barely used pair of MWT's in rosewood and have been breaking them in for about a month. I'm powering them with a Bel Canto S300. I use a modded squeezebox running into a Peachtree Nova using the pre and DAC only. It is a pretty hot set up and I want more... Does anyone think that going for Ohm 4.5 MKii's is moving forward or backward? I am considering moving the MWT's as surrounds and the 4.5's as L/R with an HSU sub replacing my beloved KEF reference surround system. Any thoughts? I love the MWT's in my two chanell system and think that an all Ohm HT would be fabulous. Best, Peter

Bond,

From what I can tell from the specs, 45amps, 150w into 8 OHm and 2 ohm load stable are all good indicators for good performance driving complex loads like the OHMs.

More from me in the "music that sounds amazing on the Ohms" category...

Try Paul Simon's 2006 studio album, "Surprise." Simon collaborated with electronica master Brian Eno. Great music (it grew on me), great lyrics, as you'd expect from Simon. And all kinds of opportunities to show off and enjoy what the Ohms can do, spatially (and in terms of great midrange with vocals) on this one. Enjoy!

5000s. Nice!

They supposedly use new drivers and are more efficient, so power parameters for optimal performance might be different and I would expect less demanding.

Please keep us posted. I have not heard any user feedback on these new drivers yet.

Well, since we're all discussing current, why don't those of you who have amps with current ratings post the current ratings here. Although I don't own Ohms - not yet :-) - my Odyssey Audio Stratos HT3 is rated to deliver 45 amps of current. I do not know if that is per each of the 3 channels or total. Here is a link to the specs of my amp (I did get the cap upgrade option): http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-stratos-ht3.html

Before I take the plunge, I will check with John at Ohm to see if this is a good choice for his speakers in my room (a basement, 24' X 20' X 6' ceiling [DUCK!]), but if you folks want to give me your opinion about this, I am all ears.

I also have a pair of Vandersteen 2Wq subwoofers which would stay if I upgrade to Ohms. They roll in @6dB/octave starting @80Hz, and the Vandersteen in-line resistors roll off at the same slope starting at 80Hz. So the output to the mains is down 6dB at 40Hz, and 12dB at 20Hz.

The amp has a pretty liquid, detailed, yet smooth character, with good dynamic punch, good PRAT, and good soundstage width. Hieght and depth are fair, nothing spectacular. BTW, if you are looking for a bang for the buck amplifier with hefty current capability, the Odyssey Audio line is worth a look.

Finally received a set of very customized/upgraded Walsh 5-S3 with prototype 5000 drivers modified for extra treble. (this is John's description). Will set them up after work today. I was just too out of it after work yesterday. Looking forward to it.

Good point Marty. Specs alone may be a general indicator but seldom tell the whole story.